Why cant I "Land After"?
aceatco, retired
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Vehicles
I wouldn't hesitate to land a light acft at the start of a 2160m runway with a vehicle at the far 600m or so providing the pilot and driver were happy. In fact, I do!
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Ah yes - but I take it your MATS pt II says you can? Has this procedure been through an SMS audit? 
(And all the other nanny state c**p that's getting thrown around these days!).
(And all the other nanny state c**p that's getting thrown around these days!).
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Evil J,
Re. two aircraft doing a t+g, could it be this: The second pilot accepts the land-after, knowing the first aircraft will be off the runway well before he's caught up with him. The first aircraft, however, aborts the take-off, remaining on the runway. The second pilot now has much less room in which to land than he'd planned.
On the other hand, if the first aircraft is cleared to land, the second aircraft knows exactly how much runway he has to play with.
Just a thought! (And UV, sorry to post without answering your question, but I think the answer has already been given - there isn't a good answer!)
FFF
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Re. two aircraft doing a t+g, could it be this: The second pilot accepts the land-after, knowing the first aircraft will be off the runway well before he's caught up with him. The first aircraft, however, aborts the take-off, remaining on the runway. The second pilot now has much less room in which to land than he'd planned.
On the other hand, if the first aircraft is cleared to land, the second aircraft knows exactly how much runway he has to play with.
Just a thought! (And UV, sorry to post without answering your question, but I think the answer has already been given - there isn't a good answer!)
FFF
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Good old Rule 17 - I think I recall it as being one of the clauses in the 'fun is bad' section of the regulations.
Two aircraft who have taken off in a close formation pair and have not been more than six feet of each other for their flight are not allowed to make their own space assessment to space for a streamed landing at an airfield without air traffic control.
It is see and be seen when in the air with Pilots able to make their own decisions. At the point of landing they are assumed to have lost all ability to judge.
As others have said though - these are the rules of the game we have all agreed to,
Two aircraft who have taken off in a close formation pair and have not been more than six feet of each other for their flight are not allowed to make their own space assessment to space for a streamed landing at an airfield without air traffic control.
It is see and be seen when in the air with Pilots able to make their own decisions. At the point of landing they are assumed to have lost all ability to judge.
As others have said though - these are the rules of the game we have all agreed to,
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OK I understand the situation with regard to powered aircraft. In my gliding days we used to have many gliders on the same runway at the same time. Was this OK? If not what were we going to do, levitate?
Rod1
Rod1
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At an uncontrolled airfield you can 180 and backtrack without permission. Can't at a controlled airfield (not without a rocket up the arse from the controller, anyhow). Not nice when someone lands after you ...
we recently fell foul of this rule as we tried to quickly land in line astern as the airfield was on the verge of closing. We had just come back from a week of touring around France during which we had got into the habit of flying in fairly close formation and even landing in close formation at places such as Ruen and Caen. What we forgot to do in this case was to request a formation landing.
We knew what we were doing and were comfortable with the situation but the ATC obviously could not know this. The 3 aircraft are all the same and we were up to speed on the way each of the others would act. Also, there was a 20 odd knot headwind straight down the runway so our landing roll was measured in inches not metres!
We knew what we were doing and were comfortable with the situation but the ATC obviously could not know this. The 3 aircraft are all the same and we were up to speed on the way each of the others would act. Also, there was a 20 odd knot headwind straight down the runway so our landing roll was measured in inches not metres!
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Final3Greens
An AFISO has no authority. He or she cannot stop the aircraft on the runway from backtracking, so in my opinion that would still not be a good idea. The reason I put this forward is the absolute kittens our local air tragic have when they have given a "land after" and the one ahead tries to make an unauthorised 180 and backtrack.
An AFISO has no authority. He or she cannot stop the aircraft on the runway from backtracking, so in my opinion that would still not be a good idea. The reason I put this forward is the absolute kittens our local air tragic have when they have given a "land after" and the one ahead tries to make an unauthorised 180 and backtrack.
