Fly-in Communities (merged)
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Brain jelly
Brain-jelly in Arizona or Murcia?
Probably correct.
But what about, if this fly-in community would be a former
miltary base with a 2300 x 30 m runway,
near a huge lake, (for saling or motorboating)
in the middle of huge forests complex, (for hunting or just trekking)
with wild fresh water creeks crossing (for fishing and canoeing)
and maybe a golf place ?
30 min flight from the see, 2 h flight from major
European capitals.
In case of trouble (weather) 15 min flight from IFR international airport (small one, not very busy).
Would you go for it ???
Ptkay
Probably correct.
But what about, if this fly-in community would be a former
miltary base with a 2300 x 30 m runway,
near a huge lake, (for saling or motorboating)
in the middle of huge forests complex, (for hunting or just trekking)
with wild fresh water creeks crossing (for fishing and canoeing)
and maybe a golf place ?
30 min flight from the see, 2 h flight from major
European capitals.
In case of trouble (weather) 15 min flight from IFR international airport (small one, not very busy).
Would you go for it ???
Ptkay
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
What country are you referring to?
I looked at this a year or so ago.
What you describe sounds a great place to live. The bit I am unsure of is what exactly would be the attraction of living so close to an airfield, perhaps making compromises on other fronts.
It would make a lot of sense if one's lifestyle was such that private flying was used a great deal to get about, but while that appears common in the USA it is very rare in Europe, perhaps because the weather isn't as good, the distances aren't as great, there are far fewer airfields that are usable in less than very good weather, and it is a lot more expensive to fly.
I agree that an air park would be ideal for those (few) people who fit this lifestyle. But one needs to find a lot more people to make it commercially viable.
I bet that whatever location you find that contains a nice airfield, there are going to be as good and cheaper houses say 10 miles away as one would find right next to the runway. And 10 miles isn't far to drive if one is going to fly 500 miles.
I went through this when looking quite seriously at the Murcia air park, with a view to purchasing a house there to stay in occassionally and to rent out to pilots in the UK and elsewhere. There is "going to be" a flight training business there and this would appear an ideal setup for PPL training, in a much better climate than the UK normally has - and shipping PPL students from the UK to Murcia is far quicker and cheaper than shipping them to Florida.
Eventually I dropped this idea because the developers were not responding to communications, in a manner which made me very suspicious. But if you can find a nice airfield in Spain (not many of them) you can find a good enough hotel a few miles away, so it could be difficult to get decent rental rates at the air park.
France doesn't have significantly better weather than the UK unless one goes a long way south.
No matter how I look at it, an air park in Europe is something which one must consider primarily for the location and the house, and if a runway is near that is a bonus. One must remember that most candidate residents have to work to make money. Very few retired people are going to fly frequently enough to want to buy into an air park.
The big problem in the UK is airfields disappearing, often under pressure from property developers. I think that 20 years from now, at least half the present GA-accessible airfields will be gone. When this happens, a lot of people just stop flying for good because the nearest might be two hours' drive. It is an interesting question whether an air park gives one better security.
I looked at this a year or so ago.
What you describe sounds a great place to live. The bit I am unsure of is what exactly would be the attraction of living so close to an airfield, perhaps making compromises on other fronts.
It would make a lot of sense if one's lifestyle was such that private flying was used a great deal to get about, but while that appears common in the USA it is very rare in Europe, perhaps because the weather isn't as good, the distances aren't as great, there are far fewer airfields that are usable in less than very good weather, and it is a lot more expensive to fly.
I agree that an air park would be ideal for those (few) people who fit this lifestyle. But one needs to find a lot more people to make it commercially viable.
I bet that whatever location you find that contains a nice airfield, there are going to be as good and cheaper houses say 10 miles away as one would find right next to the runway. And 10 miles isn't far to drive if one is going to fly 500 miles.
I went through this when looking quite seriously at the Murcia air park, with a view to purchasing a house there to stay in occassionally and to rent out to pilots in the UK and elsewhere. There is "going to be" a flight training business there and this would appear an ideal setup for PPL training, in a much better climate than the UK normally has - and shipping PPL students from the UK to Murcia is far quicker and cheaper than shipping them to Florida.
Eventually I dropped this idea because the developers were not responding to communications, in a manner which made me very suspicious. But if you can find a nice airfield in Spain (not many of them) you can find a good enough hotel a few miles away, so it could be difficult to get decent rental rates at the air park.
France doesn't have significantly better weather than the UK unless one goes a long way south.
No matter how I look at it, an air park in Europe is something which one must consider primarily for the location and the house, and if a runway is near that is a bonus. One must remember that most candidate residents have to work to make money. Very few retired people are going to fly frequently enough to want to buy into an air park.
The big problem in the UK is airfields disappearing, often under pressure from property developers. I think that 20 years from now, at least half the present GA-accessible airfields will be gone. When this happens, a lot of people just stop flying for good because the nearest might be two hours' drive. It is an interesting question whether an air park gives one better security.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
From: Europe
You made few good points.
But...
What I've heard from some friends in France, the fly-ins there
are rather second residences for their owners in their mid-life.
(Not for retired, wine sipping, passive people.)
They fly in there on weekends or summer-winter holidays.
The key is the time you need to get there on the Friday evening,
and back on Sunday.
Trying to drive from London anywhere to the coast villa,
will take you hours of stress and jams.
App. in the same time you are at your house door step on the
Atlantic coast in France. (No need to mention the difference
in the estate prices here and there).
So such fly-in must be in an atractive region, offering you
lots of possible activities. Therefore, what I try to create
(at the moment virtually), is a model of such place.
I personally do no golfing, but am a horse fan, so at my
"dream fly-in" there must be a riding opportunity, and of course
plenty of wild landscape to ride into.
Cycling, canoeing, sailing, and in winter, down-hill and
cross-country skiing, skating, snow scooters...
Also a possibility of interesting sightseeing flying should be there...
See any hope for such idea ?
Ptkay
But...
What I've heard from some friends in France, the fly-ins there
are rather second residences for their owners in their mid-life.
(Not for retired, wine sipping, passive people.)
They fly in there on weekends or summer-winter holidays.
The key is the time you need to get there on the Friday evening,
and back on Sunday.
Trying to drive from London anywhere to the coast villa,
will take you hours of stress and jams.
App. in the same time you are at your house door step on the
Atlantic coast in France. (No need to mention the difference
in the estate prices here and there).
So such fly-in must be in an atractive region, offering you
lots of possible activities. Therefore, what I try to create
(at the moment virtually), is a model of such place.
I personally do no golfing, but am a horse fan, so at my
"dream fly-in" there must be a riding opportunity, and of course
plenty of wild landscape to ride into.
Cycling, canoeing, sailing, and in winter, down-hill and
cross-country skiing, skating, snow scooters...
Also a possibility of interesting sightseeing flying should be there...
See any hope for such idea ?
Ptkay
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
OK, I'll buy it 
One proviso: the houses must be a lot cheaper than the UK. The current French air parks (that I've looked at) have houses around the Eur 600k mark; this is comparable to the cost of a 5 bedroom house in the more expensive parts of the UK and not many working people will be able to spend that as well as keeping their main house.
If you can offer a good location for say Eur 200k then you will get lots of customers. With or without a runway nearby.
Murcia was going for Eur 300k entry level and there don't appear to be many takers. But then Murcia is not exactly a nice part of Spain, especially the inland location in question.
Anywhere in France is within the range of a good piston single but somewhere around the latitude of say La Rochelle is accessible for many more people. But there the weather only just begins to be nice.
One proviso: the houses must be a lot cheaper than the UK. The current French air parks (that I've looked at) have houses around the Eur 600k mark; this is comparable to the cost of a 5 bedroom house in the more expensive parts of the UK and not many working people will be able to spend that as well as keeping their main house.
If you can offer a good location for say Eur 200k then you will get lots of customers. With or without a runway nearby.
Murcia was going for Eur 300k entry level and there don't appear to be many takers. But then Murcia is not exactly a nice part of Spain, especially the inland location in question.
Anywhere in France is within the range of a good piston single but somewhere around the latitude of say La Rochelle is accessible for many more people. But there the weather only just begins to be nice.
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
From: Bordeaux, France
The link works, I get the aeroplane graphics and flypasts on the plan page etc. as I have Flash, but its all I get........it wont show any other pages/info etc. - site not finished or perhaps another problem my end?
Regards, SD..
Regards, SD..
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
From: Essex, UK
Retirement in Spain is for people who are mentally finished and are ready to spend the rest of their days sitting in the sun and drinking wine or whatever, chatting to their chums from Chelsmford, watching East Enders on Sky TV.
They are selling up and moving to France though. They've found a nice 4 bed place near La Rochelle, with enough acres to have a decent grass strip and will stick £100k in their back pocket from the move.
Bit of a no brainer really.
Especially when you have seen the summer traffic on the N332 between Murcia and Torrevieja
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 175
Likes: 1
From: Sydney
airpark
Have you lot thought of Australia?
Language is a sort of English, Weather is better than the UK and it,s main advantage is that it is far enough away from your rels in England!
There are a series of Airparks starting and a Farm west of the Blue Mountains with room for a strip is a fraction of prices quoted above!
Language is a sort of English, Weather is better than the UK and it,s main advantage is that it is far enough away from your rels in England!
There are a series of Airparks starting and a Farm west of the Blue Mountains with room for a strip is a fraction of prices quoted above!
