Night Flying with PPL/ATPL
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: UK
Night Flying with PPL/ATPL
Hello all, im new to PPrune. My Dad and I fly frequently, him being the licence holder. We are both interested in doing some early evening, night time flying this winter. My Dad has a full UK PPL aswell as an ATPL (Capt on BA 777s). Would his ATPL permit him, here in the UK, to fly in these conditions without having to obtain a Night Rating on the aircraft (Cessna 150/172). Cheers
Jon
Jon
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23
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From: UK
Im sure he does (can't ask now as he's away). So if he does, which I guess is highly likely, we should have no problems in booking an aircraft for a night flight and have no worries about the club turning round and saying, 'Hang on, you havn't done a night rating with us, etc etc'. Thanks
Jon
Jon
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Your 'Dad' must have a valid SEP Class Rating included on his licence (whether ATPL or PPL). It is the Rating, not the licence which matters.
His ATPL will include Night Qualification. But to carry passengers, he must have the relevant 90-day night recency in the same Class of aeroplane. 777 night flying does NOT count for SEP night recency purposes.
As he has a JAR-FCL IR, he may have IMC Rating privileges included fairly easily - but NOT Single Pilot IR privileges unless he also has a Single Pilot IR. With IMC Rating privileges, he will be permitted to fly under IFR in Class A/D/E CTRs when IFR is mandatory in such airspace. Such as at night - even if it's VMC. Or he could fly under SVFR, of course, as limited by his IMC Rating privileges.
Without an IMC Rating he could only fly under SVFR at night in a CTR.
But as a ba professional pilot, he will of course know all this. Won't he?
His ATPL will include Night Qualification. But to carry passengers, he must have the relevant 90-day night recency in the same Class of aeroplane. 777 night flying does NOT count for SEP night recency purposes.
As he has a JAR-FCL IR, he may have IMC Rating privileges included fairly easily - but NOT Single Pilot IR privileges unless he also has a Single Pilot IR. With IMC Rating privileges, he will be permitted to fly under IFR in Class A/D/E CTRs when IFR is mandatory in such airspace. Such as at night - even if it's VMC. Or he could fly under SVFR, of course, as limited by his IMC Rating privileges.
Without an IMC Rating he could only fly under SVFR at night in a CTR.
But as a ba professional pilot, he will of course know all this. Won't he?
Last edited by BEagle; 9th October 2004 at 12:24.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Only if it's a UK-issued JAR-FCL ATPL and an IMC Rating had been included (paperwork and fee exercise only):
"The holder of a JAR-FCL professional aeroplane licence with a valid multi-pilot IR(A) is not automatically entitled to fly using the privileges of an IMC Rating in single-pilot aeroplanes. They will be required to obtain a separate IMC Rating endorsement on the basis of their most recent multi pilot IR proficiency check or skill test. In this case, the IMC Rating will be valid for a period of 25 months from the date of the IR(A) skill test and will not need to be revalidated if the IR remains valid. If the IR(A) lapses an IMC revalidation flight test is required."
It's all because the CAA cocked up the 'included IMC privileges' of the former UK (non-JAR-FCL) CPL and ATPL when the JAR-FCL scheme was inflicted upon us!
"The holder of a JAR-FCL professional aeroplane licence with a valid multi-pilot IR(A) is not automatically entitled to fly using the privileges of an IMC Rating in single-pilot aeroplanes. They will be required to obtain a separate IMC Rating endorsement on the basis of their most recent multi pilot IR proficiency check or skill test. In this case, the IMC Rating will be valid for a period of 25 months from the date of the IR(A) skill test and will not need to be revalidated if the IR remains valid. If the IR(A) lapses an IMC revalidation flight test is required."
It's all because the CAA cocked up the 'included IMC privileges' of the former UK (non-JAR-FCL) CPL and ATPL when the JAR-FCL scheme was inflicted upon us!
