Mode S fitted?
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 60
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From: UK
Mode S fitted?
As anyone upgraded to Mode S yet? If so, what's the real cost of upgrading a PA-28 at this time? (as opposed to the advertised prices in magazines). Can you re-use the old Mode A/C aerial, tray, etc.? Any problems with availability? Anything in particular we need to be aware of?
Also, is it true that to say that those of us with IMC (or IR) ratings will not be able to make further use of it, beyond March next year, unless we upgrade to Mode S?
140
...also I forgot to add...
As there\'s no such thing as night VFR in the UK, will night flying beyond March next year be limited to Mode S users?
Thanks
140
Also, is it true that to say that those of us with IMC (or IR) ratings will not be able to make further use of it, beyond March next year, unless we upgrade to Mode S?
140
...also I forgot to add...
As there\'s no such thing as night VFR in the UK, will night flying beyond March next year be limited to Mode S users?
Thanks
140
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
fitting mode S
The aerial is the same so you can re-use that as to the tray , it depends on the unit.
Some King units can do a direct swap BUT and this is the BIG BUT !, the new tray has a mount for an E-PROM this has all the unique aircraft data and lets you swap units from aircraft to aircraft. If you don't have the E-PROM when you swap units it will require you to enter the unique code into the box before flying.
In my opinion the extra hassel in changing the tray is worthwile in the long run.
Narco are at the moment looking into making a mode S unit to replace the AT50/150/155 range and acording to the people at Narco that I have emailed the plan is to have the unit fit into the same tray , this would please me no end as I own three of these units !.
Some King units can do a direct swap BUT and this is the BIG BUT !, the new tray has a mount for an E-PROM this has all the unique aircraft data and lets you swap units from aircraft to aircraft. If you don't have the E-PROM when you swap units it will require you to enter the unique code into the box before flying.
In my opinion the extra hassel in changing the tray is worthwile in the long run.
Narco are at the moment looking into making a mode S unit to replace the AT50/150/155 range and acording to the people at Narco that I have emailed the plan is to have the unit fit into the same tray , this would please me no end as I own three of these units !.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 486
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From: Belgium
I installed the Garmin GTX330 and am very happy with it. It is coupled to the GNS430 to display TIS if ever this gets implemented in Europe (poor man's TCAS).
I had it installed at CAE in Luxembourg and their prices were very competitive and everything was right first time.
I had it installed at CAE in Luxembourg and their prices were very competitive and everything was right first time.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,631
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From: UK
Ours was fitted a couple of weeks ago - the Garmin unit.
The cost of the unit was £2,000 plus VAT. The cost of fitting will vary a great deal. In our case the fitting was complicated by a number of issues. I would have thought anything in the range £400 to £800 would be reasonable.
Given good access, there is nothing complicated about the fit, but a new tray will probably be required.
The unit does not come with the encoder, but you will almost certainly be able to use your existing encoder.
Advantages so far - the unit displays the FL being received from the encoder, a useful means of verifying the encoder is functioning correctly, and has a "nice" digital flight timer. There are also audible altitude warnings if you wish.
The disadvantages - both Gatwich and Fanborough "admitted" they are unable to receive mode S information so no one knows we have had it fitted!
Dont forget you will also have to obtain an aircraft specific code from the CAA and the installation will almost certainly result in a minor mod. fee - which incidentally you would have thought the CAA would have waived given that it was a legislative requirement that the unit be fitted in the first instance - and their was me thinking the CAA should have .. .. ..
The cost of the unit was £2,000 plus VAT. The cost of fitting will vary a great deal. In our case the fitting was complicated by a number of issues. I would have thought anything in the range £400 to £800 would be reasonable.
Given good access, there is nothing complicated about the fit, but a new tray will probably be required.
The unit does not come with the encoder, but you will almost certainly be able to use your existing encoder.
Advantages so far - the unit displays the FL being received from the encoder, a useful means of verifying the encoder is functioning correctly, and has a "nice" digital flight timer. There are also audible altitude warnings if you wish.
The disadvantages - both Gatwich and Fanborough "admitted" they are unable to receive mode S information so no one knows we have had it fitted!
Dont forget you will also have to obtain an aircraft specific code from the CAA and the installation will almost certainly result in a minor mod. fee - which incidentally you would have thought the CAA would have waived given that it was a legislative requirement that the unit be fitted in the first instance - and their was me thinking the CAA should have .. .. ..
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
I have the mode S fitted but as the deal was all part of a lot of bartering the price that I paid would be meaningless to you.
As for the CAA minor mod fee if you go to an avionic company with the right approvals you will not need to pay that.
As for the CAA minor mod fee if you go to an avionic company with the right approvals you will not need to pay that.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
From: UK
A C - I was interested in your comment about the minor mod fee. Our fitter is CAA approved and has been around years (not that that makes any difference). To be fair, he didnt say there would be an additional charge for the minor mod but he said the fitting of a mode S transponder required a minor mod because it constituted a different piece of kit than that listed on the avionics schedule. In my expereince a minor mod always results in a fee - which he might well absorb as part of his costs.
Do you know otherwise?
Do you know otherwise?
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 636
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From: Spanish Riviera
Fuji, just an observation.
Which bit of extant legislation is that?
which incidentally you would have thought the CAA would have waived given that it was a legislative requirement that the unit be fitted in the first instance
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,631
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From: UK
Whipping boy - it wasnt an entirely serious comment.
However, given that mode S is partly being promoted as a safety enhancement and will eventually be mandatory (so it would seem, although I appreciate the debate taking place on exactly when), it would not seem entirely unreasonable that the national authority would dispense with the minor mod fee (but see my previous post) particularly when many of us are having to remove perfectly serviceable units.
On this issue it would also be interesting to know whether any untis in the UK have mode S capability and if not when they expect to have this capability. I have to say I was surprised to find that neither Gatwick, Farnborough or Heathrow admitt to having mode S.
However, given that mode S is partly being promoted as a safety enhancement and will eventually be mandatory (so it would seem, although I appreciate the debate taking place on exactly when), it would not seem entirely unreasonable that the national authority would dispense with the minor mod fee (but see my previous post) particularly when many of us are having to remove perfectly serviceable units.
On this issue it would also be interesting to know whether any untis in the UK have mode S capability and if not when they expect to have this capability. I have to say I was surprised to find that neither Gatwick, Farnborough or Heathrow admitt to having mode S.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: London
I think you'll find that you need it for airways from end March next year. We had ours fitted (Garmin) a couple of weeks ago and it has a very pretty display which puts the rest of the panel to shame, I too understand that large parts of the ATC environment can't yet pick up a/c identification but I guess it's progress?????
Wait until we all have Mode S and en route charges (IFR or VFR), that's a real gotcha!
Wait until we all have Mode S and en route charges (IFR or VFR), that's a real gotcha!
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
Likes: 2
From: north of barlu
fuji
If the avionic shop you use has design approval then it is them that approve the minor mod if not then the CAA have to approve the mod and charge for doing so.
I hope this clarifies the situation.
I hope this clarifies the situation.
