Hand Swinging - Solo
Suave yet Shallow
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: half way between the gutter and the stars.
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hand Swinging - Solo
If you operate an a/c which requires hand-swinging to get it going, I imagine at your local field there will be the 'airfield regulars' who are always on hand to help you get it going, and you'll know who's done it before etc, who's an 'old' hand at it.
But what happens when you land away - again some strips will have people around but you don't know how experienced they will be - and standing by a prop as it kicks into life is not somewhere I'd want to be standing. So how do you do it when landing away or when there's just no one else around?
But what happens when you land away - again some strips will have people around but you don't know how experienced they will be - and standing by a prop as it kicks into life is not somewhere I'd want to be standing. So how do you do it when landing away or when there's just no one else around?
Guest
Posts: n/a
From behind, left hand near controls in cabin. Always with the fuel off.
But I have a nice high-winger so the prop and controls are easily reached. If she did start to run away, the struts will catch me neatly in the back of the knees, leaving me thereupon seated, so I would be carried along, affording more time to turn the mags off.
What type are you referring to?
DT
But I have a nice high-winger so the prop and controls are easily reached. If she did start to run away, the struts will catch me neatly in the back of the knees, leaving me thereupon seated, so I would be carried along, affording more time to turn the mags off.
What type are you referring to?
DT
Suave yet Shallow
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: half way between the gutter and the stars.
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wasn't thinking of any one type in particular, and with a high wing I can imagine what you're saying.
Would the same work for a low wing type where you have to clamber on the wing to get into the cockpit... or well, I suppose it'd be prudent to have the mags in an accessible position from the ground.
Would the same work for a low wing type where you have to clamber on the wing to get into the cockpit... or well, I suppose it'd be prudent to have the mags in an accessible position from the ground.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I should imagine it's more difficult to do it safely, but it may depend on the type/size.
Another thought: all the foregoing assumes tailwheel type, because then the prop tends to be at a higher position (better for swinging). I do swing nosewheel types, but only from in front with a competent person at the controls etc., and only two-bladed props...those 3- and 4-bladers come around too quick for me!
Another thought: all the foregoing assumes tailwheel type, because then the prop tends to be at a higher position (better for swinging). I do swing nosewheel types, but only from in front with a competent person at the controls etc., and only two-bladed props...those 3- and 4-bladers come around too quick for me!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Oop North, UK
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From behind, left hand near controls in cabin.
If you have tiedowns you can help stop incidents by using this to hold the tail until you have things running, but however you do it the big point is to do it CAREFULLY, especially making sure the throttle is not any more advanced than it needs to be and that Brakes are on and/or chocks are in.
Also, even an inexperienced person can be briefed to sit in or stand alongside, leaving everything alone UNLESS something goes wrong, when they turn OFF the mags and pull out the mixture (both of which you show them and get them to practice).
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I used to carry big, light, caravan chocks in the Aeronca super Chief I had, because you'd be surprised how many folk will have nothing to do with the "Armstrong" starting method.
Once you are used to the particular aeroplane, you become very adept at knowing exactly how much to push the throttle in, be it a quarter of an inch or three quarters!
Stik
Once you are used to the particular aeroplane, you become very adept at knowing exactly how much to push the throttle in, be it a quarter of an inch or three quarters!
Stik
Guest
Posts: n/a
Solo swinging - shurely an oxymoron!
But seriously folks -
Priming the engine then turning off the fuel is the safest way to avoid a long walk home.
Another thing many people forget is that the maximum draw during engine start is created with the hrottle closed.
In other words if in won't start, pulling the throttle back a tad often works whereas opening it progressively can lead to a sudden roaring sound.
Just taking things slowly and carefully is half the battle. As Bax once wrote in Flying Mag "Being called cautious is better than Lefty!"
Sir George Cayley
But seriously folks -
Priming the engine then turning off the fuel is the safest way to avoid a long walk home.
Another thing many people forget is that the maximum draw during engine start is created with the hrottle closed.
In other words if in won't start, pulling the throttle back a tad often works whereas opening it progressively can lead to a sudden roaring sound.
Just taking things slowly and carefully is half the battle. As Bax once wrote in Flying Mag "Being called cautious is better than Lefty!"
Sir George Cayley
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 4,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the quesion has probably been answered already (although there's always room for more good advice), so I hope you don't mind me hijacking the thread with a couple of interesting hand-swinging scenarios?
The first was the J3 Cub on floats. Since they are (at the school where I did my floatplane flying) docked with the nose in towards the land, they need to be pushed away before starting the engine, hence no support from anyone on the ground. Push away, use the rudder to steer the aircraft to a reasonably safe position, then step out onto the float to swing the prop, whilst holding on to anything you can find so you don't take a swim. If it doesn't start first time, hope that you're not sailing backwards into anything that'll cause any damage! (Or alternatively turn the aircraft around from the land, get someone to hold on to the back of the float, and then get your assistant to push you off, forwards, once the engine is started..... much easier, but less fun!)
Then recently I hand-swung a very unusual home-built aircraft, and I can't remember what it was called. Aparently, it's the only one in the country. The pilot was a Canadian Air Force pilot on an exchange program, based in Scotland, who had borrowed this aircraft from a friend. Unfortunately he had a few electrical problems en-route and diverted into Blackpool to try to sort them out. With his radio inop, he got a light signal and proceeded to land, found his way to the apron, and shut down. Obviously without a radio, and at a field he wasn't familiar with, he didn't know where he was going, and found himself parked outside my hangar with a flat battery. I offered to try to hand-swing the prop, and after the first unsuccessful attempt I figured out that something wasn't quite right.
Then it hit me - it was a 6-cylinder engine! Anyone ever swung one of these before? In a 4-cylinder 4-stroke engine, each compression you feel represents one full ccompression of one cylinder, which is hopefully followed by ignition. In a 6-cylinder engine, one cylinder will begin its compression stroke before the previous one finishes. So, I reasoned, I'd have to swing it through two compressions before it'll fire! It worked, we got it going soon after that, but it was hard work! Anyone else ever swung a 6-cylinder engine? Any hints, on the off-chance I ever have to do it again?
FFF
------------
The first was the J3 Cub on floats. Since they are (at the school where I did my floatplane flying) docked with the nose in towards the land, they need to be pushed away before starting the engine, hence no support from anyone on the ground. Push away, use the rudder to steer the aircraft to a reasonably safe position, then step out onto the float to swing the prop, whilst holding on to anything you can find so you don't take a swim. If it doesn't start first time, hope that you're not sailing backwards into anything that'll cause any damage! (Or alternatively turn the aircraft around from the land, get someone to hold on to the back of the float, and then get your assistant to push you off, forwards, once the engine is started..... much easier, but less fun!)
Then recently I hand-swung a very unusual home-built aircraft, and I can't remember what it was called. Aparently, it's the only one in the country. The pilot was a Canadian Air Force pilot on an exchange program, based in Scotland, who had borrowed this aircraft from a friend. Unfortunately he had a few electrical problems en-route and diverted into Blackpool to try to sort them out. With his radio inop, he got a light signal and proceeded to land, found his way to the apron, and shut down. Obviously without a radio, and at a field he wasn't familiar with, he didn't know where he was going, and found himself parked outside my hangar with a flat battery. I offered to try to hand-swing the prop, and after the first unsuccessful attempt I figured out that something wasn't quite right.
Then it hit me - it was a 6-cylinder engine! Anyone ever swung one of these before? In a 4-cylinder 4-stroke engine, each compression you feel represents one full ccompression of one cylinder, which is hopefully followed by ignition. In a 6-cylinder engine, one cylinder will begin its compression stroke before the previous one finishes. So, I reasoned, I'd have to swing it through two compressions before it'll fire! It worked, we got it going soon after that, but it was hard work! Anyone else ever swung a 6-cylinder engine? Any hints, on the off-chance I ever have to do it again?
FFF
------------
Guest
Posts: n/a
FfF
Yes, I have...it's not a problem, apart from prop position. You really do need a competent person in the seat for this one, and the swinger must trust (or check upon) them implicitly for their mag switch positioning. IIRC, two out of three (or is it one out of three) firing strokes, you have to go mags off and pull through the next one to get the prop in a suitable position for swinging comfort.
(this sounds like one of those wife-swapping TV programs)
Now, 6-cyl, fuel-injected, wobbly-prop, 260-horse? That gets interesting. I have seen a 9-cyl radial on a Yak hand-swung, but I really draw the line there.
Yes, I have...it's not a problem, apart from prop position. You really do need a competent person in the seat for this one, and the swinger must trust (or check upon) them implicitly for their mag switch positioning. IIRC, two out of three (or is it one out of three) firing strokes, you have to go mags off and pull through the next one to get the prop in a suitable position for swinging comfort.
(this sounds like one of those wife-swapping TV programs)
Now, 6-cyl, fuel-injected, wobbly-prop, 260-horse? That gets interesting. I have seen a 9-cyl radial on a Yak hand-swung, but I really draw the line there.
A burly ag pilot very kindly handswung a crappy C402 I was ferrying for maintenance after a fuel stop in the bush. Damned if I'd have the strength to do it. Poxy old thing had all sorts of things wrong with it.
Get a pair of lightweight caravan chocks from Halfords or similar. Tie them together with a piece of bright coloured plastic rope so that they are spaced the same as your mainwheels with about 3-4 feet left over sticking out of one chock. This allows you to remove both chocks "safely" from behind a revolving prop from one side.
Brakes on, push back to make sure the brakes ARE on, chocks in and tight against the tyre, prime, suck in. Mags on, fuel off and swing.
Wait for engine to warm up a little bit. When engine will allow you to close the throttle without cutting out, do so. Set throttle friction and then rapidly remove chocks and leap in.
If you are in a brakeless aeroplane such as a Moth, do your start up on grass facing uphill. As long as you close the throttle fully even a 145 hp Gipsy shouldn't be able to drag the tailskid. After saying that I would prefer somebody to swing the prop and remove the chocks for me if I had no brakes.
Anybody hand starting an aeroplane without chocks (not including floatplanes before the pedantic dive in
) is asking for trouble as a few people called Lefty or Stumpy have discovered.
DubTrub are you REALLY SURE that the struts would make a seat for you? I think that they are more likely to pitch you straight into the prop.
Brakes on, push back to make sure the brakes ARE on, chocks in and tight against the tyre, prime, suck in. Mags on, fuel off and swing.
Wait for engine to warm up a little bit. When engine will allow you to close the throttle without cutting out, do so. Set throttle friction and then rapidly remove chocks and leap in.
If you are in a brakeless aeroplane such as a Moth, do your start up on grass facing uphill. As long as you close the throttle fully even a 145 hp Gipsy shouldn't be able to drag the tailskid. After saying that I would prefer somebody to swing the prop and remove the chocks for me if I had no brakes.
Anybody hand starting an aeroplane without chocks (not including floatplanes before the pedantic dive in
) is asking for trouble as a few people called Lefty or Stumpy have discovered.DubTrub are you REALLY SURE that the struts would make a seat for you? I think that they are more likely to pitch you straight into the prop.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have seen a 9-cyl radial on a Yak hand-swung, but I really draw the line there.
A worry I used to have when I flew a Yak 52 was running out of air for engine start when away from home base. I certainly would not consider hand swinging. It was hard work even pulling that massive prop through before start-up; it's a big engine and being geared means you are turning it over faster than you are turning the prop, and the mechanical disadvantage vastly increases the effort required.
Hand-swinging a Yak seems like a good way to get chopped in half. You have to get up close and personal with the prop in order to put in sufficient effort to turn it - I can't imagine how you'd get away from in time if it fired up.
SSD
A worry I used to have when I flew a Yak 52 was running out of air for engine start when away from home base. I certainly would not consider hand swinging. It was hard work even pulling that massive prop through before start-up; it's a big engine and being geared means you are turning it over faster than you are turning the prop, and the mechanical disadvantage vastly increases the effort required.
Hand-swinging a Yak seems like a good way to get chopped in half. You have to get up close and personal with the prop in order to put in sufficient effort to turn it - I can't imagine how you'd get away from in time if it fired up.
SSD
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Expat Kiwi living in London
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have handswung both Yak 52 and Yak 50 on many occasions. They tend to start very easily when swung, catching almost instantly. Key technique is to make sure your swing takes you away from the prop - same for any aircraft.
And most importantly, there must be no air in the system so before touching the prop, the pilot must switch mags on AND press the starter. Only when the prop doesn't move at all do you consider touching it.
That said, it is not for the faint hearted nor slippery ground and really is a last resort...
And most importantly, there must be no air in the system so before touching the prop, the pilot must switch mags on AND press the starter. Only when the prop doesn't move at all do you consider touching it.
That said, it is not for the faint hearted nor slippery ground and really is a last resort...
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SC - I bow to your greater Yak experience. But please never ask me to give you a swing
I regularly hand-swing the Chippy and have no problems with that. Same for L4 / J3 Cubs - done from behind with right hand, left hand on the mag switch.
I did think of making up a small leather 'cap' to fit over the Yak's upper prop tip, and open on the leading edge side, to which a rope is attached. This could be pulled sharply by an assistant standing a safe distance from the prop, the cap slipping off the tip and away from the aeroplane as the prop rotates. I believe such a system was used in the military away from base to start large radial engines in the event of flat batteries, the rope being attached to a Jeep or Land Rover (or a line of Squaddies!).
SSD
I regularly hand-swing the Chippy and have no problems with that. Same for L4 / J3 Cubs - done from behind with right hand, left hand on the mag switch.
I did think of making up a small leather 'cap' to fit over the Yak's upper prop tip, and open on the leading edge side, to which a rope is attached. This could be pulled sharply by an assistant standing a safe distance from the prop, the cap slipping off the tip and away from the aeroplane as the prop rotates. I believe such a system was used in the military away from base to start large radial engines in the event of flat batteries, the rope being attached to a Jeep or Land Rover (or a line of Squaddies!).
SSD
Guest
Posts: n/a
Of course, a SCUBA bottle (c/w appropriate connector) does wonders for a depleted Yak air supply.
LowNSlow, yes I am sure...my struts (akin to J3 set-up) are just at knee height. The risk is actually being cast astern rather than being pitched forward. It is only a temporary seat, pending rapid application of the "off" portion of the mag switch. Like many things in aviation, the unexpected needs to be practised!
I would add that I will not start my carburetted engine when warm from in front without someone at the controls, since it requires a small amount of throttle (whereas cold it will start at idle).
To come back to Topcat450's original post, if the aeroplane cannot be swung from behind the prop, either take a suitable person with you, or make sure there will be someone there.
Now if the aircraft does not have impulse magneto's, there's another kettle of fish.
LowNSlow, yes I am sure...my struts (akin to J3 set-up) are just at knee height. The risk is actually being cast astern rather than being pitched forward. It is only a temporary seat, pending rapid application of the "off" portion of the mag switch. Like many things in aviation, the unexpected needs to be practised!
I would add that I will not start my carburetted engine when warm from in front without someone at the controls, since it requires a small amount of throttle (whereas cold it will start at idle).
To come back to Topcat450's original post, if the aeroplane cannot be swung from behind the prop, either take a suitable person with you, or make sure there will be someone there.
Now if the aircraft does not have impulse magneto's, there's another kettle of fish.
