Fast Jets, eg - provhost.
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Fast Jets, eg - provhost.
A friend of mine at the flying club was asking me about civilian fast jet training - I.E. Jet Provhost.
I seem to remember a few years ago, there was the "Fast Jet Flying Club" and was wondering if it's still going.
WF.
I seem to remember a few years ago, there was the "Fast Jet Flying Club" and was wondering if it's still going.
WF.
The Mk3 was a thoroughly weedy little thing - constant thrust variable noise - particularly when flow with full tip tanks. Mk 5 was vastly better - a fair bit more oomph, much better canopy and cabin pressurisation.
We did 300 KIAS 250 ft low level navexes in the things which were a complete waste of time. It was almost impossible to regain time without exceeding max continuous thrust and it drank fuel. Plus it was much heavier on the controls and bounced around like a pea on a drum. But at 240 KIAS it was very pleasant indeed...
With decent lightweight avionics, an ex-Finningley Mk 5 with tip tanks and no concrete leading edges, moustache spoilers or other aerodynamic add-ons would be the one to go for if A to B cruising is your thing. But for performance, a Mk 4 would be best (samethrust as a Mk 5, but without the extra weight or pressurisation bleed) - except that they're probably all knackered by now. Although the aerobatic purists always said that the Mk 3 actually handled slightly better.
The -A models with VOR/DME aren't really worth it for civil use - you'd be better off with something like a Garmin 430 where the non-A models had the Eureka 7 control box.
We did 300 KIAS 250 ft low level navexes in the things which were a complete waste of time. It was almost impossible to regain time without exceeding max continuous thrust and it drank fuel. Plus it was much heavier on the controls and bounced around like a pea on a drum. But at 240 KIAS it was very pleasant indeed...
With decent lightweight avionics, an ex-Finningley Mk 5 with tip tanks and no concrete leading edges, moustache spoilers or other aerodynamic add-ons would be the one to go for if A to B cruising is your thing. But for performance, a Mk 4 would be best (samethrust as a Mk 5, but without the extra weight or pressurisation bleed) - except that they're probably all knackered by now. Although the aerobatic purists always said that the Mk 3 actually handled slightly better.
The -A models with VOR/DME aren't really worth it for civil use - you'd be better off with something like a Garmin 430 where the non-A models had the Eureka 7 control box.
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Come on don't be so cruel, when I was flying them in '88 at Cranwell they were an amazing step up from the Chippy! They may not have been the best jet trainer but they had a good service life and proved reliable.
Perhaps all the bitterness here is from those who wish they could fly/have flown a jet and it is just jelousy!!
Perhaps all the bitterness here is from those who wish they could fly/have flown a jet and it is just jelousy!!
Yep - sturdy and reliable. Everone liked them really - but the Mk3 and 3A were pretty suggish.
But we had a proper military trainer in the Mk5 which would get up to 400 KIAS.......eventually!
But we had a proper military trainer in the Mk5 which would get up to 400 KIAS.......eventually!
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WelshFlyer, to answer the question you asked: yes, there are various clubs/syndicates/private companies out there offering training on the Jet Provost. See e.g. TurboJet Training, Swords Aviation, Where Eagles Share and Newcastle Jet Provost Co.. To qualify for training, it will be necessary for you to purchase a share in the aircraft (for approximately £4,000), plus you'll be responsible for monthly dues (approximately £250).
For training on the Hawker Hunter, see Delta Jets (they also have a JP and a Gnat available, at lower cost).
I hope that this helps. If you are thinking of going for it, don't be deterred by all of the negative comments posted above. From the viewpoint of most would-be conversion pilots, the fact that the JP has less performance than, say, an F-104, is a good thing. Developing and increasing your piloting skills slowly and safely is much, much more important than impressing any of the anonymous people on this forum.
For training on the Hawker Hunter, see Delta Jets (they also have a JP and a Gnat available, at lower cost).
I hope that this helps. If you are thinking of going for it, don't be deterred by all of the negative comments posted above. From the viewpoint of most would-be conversion pilots, the fact that the JP has less performance than, say, an F-104, is a good thing. Developing and increasing your piloting skills slowly and safely is much, much more important than impressing any of the anonymous people on this forum.
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It's for a friend who's getting a bit frustrated since he left the air force. He's discovered that a piper cherokee is a bit slower than the things he flew in the USAF.
As for me - jets are two distant on the horizon - I have enough trouble with a cessna!
WF.
As for me - jets are two distant on the horizon - I have enough trouble with a cessna!
WF.
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There are plenty of ex-service pilots out there who would like to fly something with a bit more pep and pizzazz than a spam can. Surprisingly, many are quite shocked when they learn how much money it costs to purchase, maintain, hangar and operate even a small private airplane. If your friend does decide to join one of the jet syndicates, at least he will be able to share the costs with the other members.
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What I thought was surprising, is that its often possible to get spares really cheap for these jets. An engine for £7000....hmmm....thats loads cheaper than a 152 engine.....
My mate flies a JP, and I'm still waiting for him to take me for a spin in it (hint hint)
When I win the lottery, alongside my G1000 Diesel Twin Star, I think I'll have an all singing, all dancing L39, painted black with red stars on the wings.....
(about $300,000 should buy a nice one)
My mate flies a JP, and I'm still waiting for him to take me for a spin in it (hint hint)
When I win the lottery, alongside my G1000 Diesel Twin Star, I think I'll have an all singing, all dancing L39, painted black with red stars on the wings.....
(about $300,000 should buy a nice one)
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englishal, perhaps you might offer to pay for the fuel ... that should get you a flight. 
Of course, please remember to tell us your impressions afterwards.
Good luck with the lottery. Personally, I would not choose the two aeroplanes that you've mentioned ... but I wouldn't turn down a flight in either, so my aviation snobbery is impure!
Of course, please remember to tell us your impressions afterwards.Good luck with the lottery. Personally, I would not choose the two aeroplanes that you've mentioned ... but I wouldn't turn down a flight in either, so my aviation snobbery is impure!
Perhaps all the bitterness here is from those who wish they could fly/have flown a jet
For some real fast jet flying send your mate here:
http://www.thundercity.com/
no need to buy shares, membership or any such nonsense, just pitch up with a suitcase full of $$$
T
http://www.thundercity.com/
no need to buy shares, membership or any such nonsense, just pitch up with a suitcase full of $$$
T
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WF,
In defence of the JP. It is a little slow and not really a 'fast jet' but is a very good basic jet trainer that with proper training can be flown SAFELY by an average PPL.
The Mk5 can do the 300 kias low level so is a good jump up from a light single. As other comments say - go one step at a time. A good grounding on the JP will stand you in good order for other jets.
I know the guys at Swords Aviation (see www.swordsaviation.co.uk) and I'm sure they can get your friend up for a trial flight.
PS. In my opinion the best JP is the Mk4!
In defence of the JP. It is a little slow and not really a 'fast jet' but is a very good basic jet trainer that with proper training can be flown SAFELY by an average PPL.
The Mk5 can do the 300 kias low level so is a good jump up from a light single. As other comments say - go one step at a time. A good grounding on the JP will stand you in good order for other jets.
I know the guys at Swords Aviation (see www.swordsaviation.co.uk) and I'm sure they can get your friend up for a trial flight.
PS. In my opinion the best JP is the Mk4!