Jodel D9 flying tips wanted
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Jodel D9 flying tips wanted
I have been volunteered to ferry a Jodel D9 from one grass strip to another on the basis that I have tail wheel time! I said “OK” as I thought it would be interesting. Now I discover what a Jodel D9 is; it’s a Rupert the Bear Cornflake packet type a/c with an ancient VW Beetle engine and a propeller about the size of Pixie’s toothpick. Employing the engineering adage, “if it don’t look right it aint” this, I think, is firmly in the “aint” category.
Does anyone have any experience of this type of “flying machine”, what are its good bad and danger points; will it fly, should I risk it, that type of thing. I have discovered from a PFA note that it seems to stall at 28 mph, so I guess landing into any kind of wind is out of the question.
So far virtually all my tail wheel time (circa 500 hours) has been on high-performance types.
Heeeelp!
Does anyone have any experience of this type of “flying machine”, what are its good bad and danger points; will it fly, should I risk it, that type of thing. I have discovered from a PFA note that it seems to stall at 28 mph, so I guess landing into any kind of wind is out of the question.
So far virtually all my tail wheel time (circa 500 hours) has been on high-performance types.
Heeeelp!
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You lucky s*d.
The main thing to watch for is carb icing with the VW engine. Use the carb heat long and often.
Landing is a doddle and it'll seem really slow, but if you need to throw away the landing, do it early and don't expect the power to come on quickly.
Although controls are light, and you'll almost certainly overcontrol on take-off and landing, the engine is a different matter. If you've only flown high-performance, it'll be like moving from a sports car to a milk float, so don't expect a rapid climb
Apart from that, it'll be fun. Enjoy it
The main thing to watch for is carb icing with the VW engine. Use the carb heat long and often.
Landing is a doddle and it'll seem really slow, but if you need to throw away the landing, do it early and don't expect the power to come on quickly.
Although controls are light, and you'll almost certainly overcontrol on take-off and landing, the engine is a different matter. If you've only flown high-performance, it'll be like moving from a sports car to a milk float, so don't expect a rapid climb
Apart from that, it'll be fun. Enjoy it
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They loop just fine - about 120 mph entry
Rolls need a bit of care as the engine wants to stop and it's all a bit leisurely. Stall turns, lazy eights & cubans are a doddle
Don't spin it though.
The phrase milk float is right in one sense and thats float. You'll find it difficult to approach at less than 50 just because your brian won't let you - so you'll have proportionatly a lot of speed to get rid off.
A lovely honest a/c - enjoy
Sir George Cayley
Rolls need a bit of care as the engine wants to stop and it's all a bit leisurely. Stall turns, lazy eights & cubans are a doddle
Don't spin it though.
The phrase milk float is right in one sense and thats float. You'll find it difficult to approach at less than 50 just because your brian won't let you - so you'll have proportionatly a lot of speed to get rid off.
A lovely honest a/c - enjoy
Sir George Cayley
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I have discovered from a PFA note that it seems to stall at 28 mph, so I guess landing into any kind of wind is out of the question.
I'm not sure you meant to say what you did, but if you did mean what you typed, may I suggest you get somebody else to deliver it! I hate the sight of splintered wood and fabric.
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I would suggest you swallow your pride and let someone who is qualified on type do the job. There must be plenty around. Alternatively, do a proper conversion to type first. If it were my aircraft, I would rather trust a 200 hour pilot who flies a D9 than a 10,000 hour Spitfire pilot for this particular job.
Mike W
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Ludwig, you old maestro:
The old D9, huh!
EPLS (easy peasy lemon squeeezy)
Approach at 45, over the fence at 40 decreasing to 35 and gently feel her on to the ground.
Though I would advocate a quick power off, stall break check at a suitable heigt after the climb out (300'?). If it is all very sedate - excelent! You now have some numbers to work with.
If the bitch flicks malignantly, then time to test your piloting skills!
Yeah baby!
See you in the Ozarks
Stik
The old D9, huh!
EPLS (easy peasy lemon squeeezy)
Approach at 45, over the fence at 40 decreasing to 35 and gently feel her on to the ground.
Though I would advocate a quick power off, stall break check at a suitable heigt after the climb out (300'?). If it is all very sedate - excelent! You now have some numbers to work with.
If the bitch flicks malignantly, then time to test your piloting skills!
Yeah baby!
See you in the Ozarks
Stik
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Ludwig,
The only thing that caught me out was the way it leapt off the ground at 30mph. It was a very easy plane to fly and I reckon if you can fly a cub then the d9 is a doddle. Enjoy it.
Skylark,
How would you suggest you do a type conversion onto a D9?
18
The only thing that caught me out was the way it leapt off the ground at 30mph. It was a very easy plane to fly and I reckon if you can fly a cub then the d9 is a doddle. Enjoy it.
Skylark,
How would you suggest you do a type conversion onto a D9?
18
Last edited by 18greens; 17th Sep 2004 at 08:14.
I'll do it for you!!!!! Yes really.
I'm more 200 hour D9 pilot than Spitfire ace, but if you do decide to do it for yourself you'll find it one of the most enjoyable types you've ever flow. Crisp, sensitive controlls and very few vices.
Before you fly I should bear in mind the crash report for D9 G-AXOI (delivery of a new aircraft by new pilot/owner). The key factors were, as discussed above, carb icing and stall/spin in on trying to stretch the glide. So watch for carb icing and don't fly too slow and you'll be fine.
I'm a little surprised at the quoted 28 mph stall speed. I would expect something closer to 40 kt, but then I am a little large. A 1600 cc VW provides more than enough performance even at MAUW 320 kg, so I should fly it off erring on the side of speed (you'll still climb well) to a suitable hight, find what the real stall speed is and approach at 50% faster (yeah I know that 30% is usually used, but the kinky wing provides loads of drag when you chop the power and field length is almost never an issue).
I have to work now, but if you want comprehensive tips or to discuss any worries feel free to PM me.
I'm more 200 hour D9 pilot than Spitfire ace, but if you do decide to do it for yourself you'll find it one of the most enjoyable types you've ever flow. Crisp, sensitive controlls and very few vices.
Before you fly I should bear in mind the crash report for D9 G-AXOI (delivery of a new aircraft by new pilot/owner). The key factors were, as discussed above, carb icing and stall/spin in on trying to stretch the glide. So watch for carb icing and don't fly too slow and you'll be fine.
I'm a little surprised at the quoted 28 mph stall speed. I would expect something closer to 40 kt, but then I am a little large. A 1600 cc VW provides more than enough performance even at MAUW 320 kg, so I should fly it off erring on the side of speed (you'll still climb well) to a suitable hight, find what the real stall speed is and approach at 50% faster (yeah I know that 30% is usually used, but the kinky wing provides loads of drag when you chop the power and field length is almost never an issue).
I have to work now, but if you want comprehensive tips or to discuss any worries feel free to PM me.
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Ludwig
Pretty much agree with Dan's comments, but don't add on too much speed - keep it to 55 kts max on short finals, drop the speed to around 50 over the hedge any more and it'll just float - Again, don't rely on the engine pulling you out of trouble when you are low and slow. Anticipate an early go-round and try again.
If you fly into a 40kt headwind, you'll have the deep joy of watching the fuel level go down, as the tractors overtake you on the ground
If you are talking about 40kt on the ground - hmmm, are you sure you want to take a D9? They will land at anything up to 20kts with a really experienced pilot, but if the wind is at that speed - stay in bed.
Pretty much agree with Dan's comments, but don't add on too much speed - keep it to 55 kts max on short finals, drop the speed to around 50 over the hedge any more and it'll just float - Again, don't rely on the engine pulling you out of trouble when you are low and slow. Anticipate an early go-round and try again.
If you fly into a 40kt headwind, you'll have the deep joy of watching the fuel level go down, as the tractors overtake you on the ground
If you are talking about 40kt on the ground - hmmm, are you sure you want to take a D9? They will land at anything up to 20kts with a really experienced pilot, but if the wind is at that speed - stay in bed.
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Zlin so how do you land an a/c which stalls at 28mph into a 40 knot headwind then?
You leave it in the hangar and wait until it's not quite so windy....especially if it's your first flight on type! As somebody who has flown a D9, and many types like it, I wouldn't even get it out of the hangar in anything like a 28kt wind!
Call me old fashioned, but I'd be getting worried if it was my aeroplane that you were delivering!
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If you're not winding us all up, then I'm worried too. You have to think wind, wind, wind with these light low-powered taildraggers the whole time from when you get it out of the hangar until its safely back in a hangar, or at least tied down, especially the tail.
If you've not flown the type before please don't get it out of the hangar if the wind looks like going over ten knots, and if it has working brakes, don't use them when the aircraft is moving. As has been pointed out already, carb ice is much more common with the VW engines. You will need carb heat applied downwind, and left "hot" until you are on short final.
If you've not flown the type before please don't get it out of the hangar if the wind looks like going over ten knots, and if it has working brakes, don't use them when the aircraft is moving. As has been pointed out already, carb ice is much more common with the VW engines. You will need carb heat applied downwind, and left "hot" until you are on short final.
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18G.
How do you convert to a single seat D9? Just the same as you would to any other single seater. You get training on a similar two seater, (I'm not that familiar with Jodels but there must be a small, underpowered two seater somewhere in the line,) then you have a very good briefing from a pilot experienced on type and finally you fly it, for several hours, exploring towards the edges of the envelope, from a big field in good conditions. You do not, ideally, have your first trip from a short field into another short field in someone elses aircraft, no matter how much of a hotshot pilot you are.
Mike W
How do you convert to a single seat D9? Just the same as you would to any other single seater. You get training on a similar two seater, (I'm not that familiar with Jodels but there must be a small, underpowered two seater somewhere in the line,) then you have a very good briefing from a pilot experienced on type and finally you fly it, for several hours, exploring towards the edges of the envelope, from a big field in good conditions. You do not, ideally, have your first trip from a short field into another short field in someone elses aircraft, no matter how much of a hotshot pilot you are.
Mike W
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If you really do find yourself flying with a 40kt groundspeed might I suggest that you keep plenty of power and speed on for the approach and I would maintain power until I actually landed . Also would stop and wait on the runway into wind until help arrived.
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Rod1
Having listened to the sage words on pprune (no point in asking the question if you ignore the answers ), read the accident report, spoken to some experienced people including someone wise from the PFA, and most frightening of all, seen a picture, I decided discretion was indeed the better part of valour. I shall let someone else have the “joy”. I am a bit worried about the guy who has bought it now; he is yet to get his ppl (hence asking someone else to fetch it) and this will be his post ppl toy from a shortish grass strip! Brave chap.
Did fly a Harvard at the weekend – now that’s a proper aircraft, and I need one!
Having listened to the sage words on pprune (no point in asking the question if you ignore the answers ), read the accident report, spoken to some experienced people including someone wise from the PFA, and most frightening of all, seen a picture, I decided discretion was indeed the better part of valour. I shall let someone else have the “joy”. I am a bit worried about the guy who has bought it now; he is yet to get his ppl (hence asking someone else to fetch it) and this will be his post ppl toy from a shortish grass strip! Brave chap.
Did fly a Harvard at the weekend – now that’s a proper aircraft, and I need one!
Last edited by Ludwig; 20th Sep 2004 at 15:54.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Ludwig,
Has your friend spoken to any insurance companies about his purchase?
I can't say for sure, but I would expect that a requirement for insurance (assuming he's planning on getting some, of course) would be for a reasonable amount (50 hours, maybe?) of tailwheel time. If that's the case, and if he's not doing so already, it may be worth him completing his PPL on a tailwheel aircraft - there are plenty of places he can do this if he looks around. Even if it's not an insurance requirement, or he's planning on flying without insurance, I would guess that getting as much tailwheel experience as possible would be a benefit.
FFF
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PS - My old PPL instructor owned a share in a D9, and loved it. He used to race trucks along the M4 in it - he reckoned he could sometimes beat the trucks, too, if he had a good tailwind! Although I haven't had a go myself, I have no doubt he will love his aircraft as long as he is suitably qualified and experienced to fly it.
Has your friend spoken to any insurance companies about his purchase?
I can't say for sure, but I would expect that a requirement for insurance (assuming he's planning on getting some, of course) would be for a reasonable amount (50 hours, maybe?) of tailwheel time. If that's the case, and if he's not doing so already, it may be worth him completing his PPL on a tailwheel aircraft - there are plenty of places he can do this if he looks around. Even if it's not an insurance requirement, or he's planning on flying without insurance, I would guess that getting as much tailwheel experience as possible would be a benefit.
FFF
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PS - My old PPL instructor owned a share in a D9, and loved it. He used to race trucks along the M4 in it - he reckoned he could sometimes beat the trucks, too, if he had a good tailwind! Although I haven't had a go myself, I have no doubt he will love his aircraft as long as he is suitably qualified and experienced to fly it.