So I want to own my own aircraft
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northampton Sywell
Age: 35
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I want to own my own aircraft
I was at my flying school and I had left my mum and dad in the bar (I am 15 by the way) and I had returned to a changed atmoshphere of almost my mum and dad had been "TOUCHED" by the luxeriousness that is avaition/flying. My dad asked how much is "THAT" airplane out there, I answered truthfully I dont know! Later he said that he wanted to buy one so I could fly him and my mum to places aswell as me building my hours nessesary for atpl, so can anyone advise on where to look for secound hand aircraft and kit aircraft and cheap ones too please! (like car road tax, insurance etc is there anything similar to plane owners?)
Thanks
Thanks
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Welcome to General Aviation Karl.
You have come to the right place to gather info. There is a lot of info available in previous threads so you might want to try using the search function.
Good luck and keep us posted!!
You have come to the right place to gather info. There is a lot of info available in previous threads so you might want to try using the search function.
Good luck and keep us posted!!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Oop North, UK
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You could try www.thehangar.co.uk, mind you, not sure if this might be construed as advertising and taken out
Other sites include Flyer and Pilot magazine sites.
edited for the link to work. Brl.
Other sites include Flyer and Pilot magazine sites.
edited for the link to work. Brl.
Last edited by BRL; 30th Aug 2004 at 19:14.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SE England
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Captain Karl...
Being only a couple years older than you and already with a PPL and a fair few hours (and desperate for something a bit more powerful!) i have toyed with the idea of aircraft ownership. My advice:
If mum and dad are going to pay; it will cost about the price of a decent car just for the airframe; not to mention the appropriate licensing (if required); mhaintainence and fuel ontop! Bearing in mind, an older airframe will be cheaper, but will probably need more in the way of looking after later on!
First step i suggest is to get yourself your license - then find yourself a decent club where the costs aren't going to break the bank. At my club it is relatively small, landing fees + ALL touch and goes are inclusive in the cost (at some clubs they charge you so much per T&G); fuel is also included at a rate of £94/hour for an aerobatic 2 seater at a club; where membership is the only other cost; and availability is generally excellent!
Your most likely bet before buying outright is to get yourself a share in something - shares range in price depending on the type of aircraft and the number in the group. Typically around £3000 one off payment followed by say about £250 per month; for flying at £30/hour wet (only an example!)
To be honest; wait until you have decent amount of money before doing anything; and do your research. Don't jump in and do everything now or you will have nothing to work towards or look forward to later on in life LOL!
When you take your mum/dad on their first trip, they won't be worried about the decor/niceness of the aeroplane as the will be so gobsmacked; my mum was nervous because she found it totally surreal when i flew her!
Happy flying!
Being only a couple years older than you and already with a PPL and a fair few hours (and desperate for something a bit more powerful!) i have toyed with the idea of aircraft ownership. My advice:
If mum and dad are going to pay; it will cost about the price of a decent car just for the airframe; not to mention the appropriate licensing (if required); mhaintainence and fuel ontop! Bearing in mind, an older airframe will be cheaper, but will probably need more in the way of looking after later on!
First step i suggest is to get yourself your license - then find yourself a decent club where the costs aren't going to break the bank. At my club it is relatively small, landing fees + ALL touch and goes are inclusive in the cost (at some clubs they charge you so much per T&G); fuel is also included at a rate of £94/hour for an aerobatic 2 seater at a club; where membership is the only other cost; and availability is generally excellent!
Your most likely bet before buying outright is to get yourself a share in something - shares range in price depending on the type of aircraft and the number in the group. Typically around £3000 one off payment followed by say about £250 per month; for flying at £30/hour wet (only an example!)
To be honest; wait until you have decent amount of money before doing anything; and do your research. Don't jump in and do everything now or you will have nothing to work towards or look forward to later on in life LOL!
When you take your mum/dad on their first trip, they won't be worried about the decor/niceness of the aeroplane as the will be so gobsmacked; my mum was nervous because she found it totally surreal when i flew her!
Happy flying!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I love it, 15 years old, no license, no responsibilities, no money (but his parents) and no idea. Already looking for his own aircraft.
Karl, the ease with which you accept such things staggers me. It seems you're about to be handed what most of us have worked a lifetime for.
Under normal circumstances I would say "You couldn't pay me enough to be 15 again", but if I got to be Karl...........well, maybe....
A cynical old fart.
W.B.
Karl, the ease with which you accept such things staggers me. It seems you're about to be handed what most of us have worked a lifetime for.
Under normal circumstances I would say "You couldn't pay me enough to be 15 again", but if I got to be Karl...........well, maybe....
A cynical old fart.
W.B.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northampton Sywell
Age: 35
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
filled with laughter
That made me laugh! Your a funny guy! Well I do work hard still im doing reading homework at 23:39! I am a PPL student and I want to be a Airline pilot, Planning to do a foundation degree in avation ops and management but ill take the pilot pathway bringing me out with a foundation degree and an (f) atpl,.
(P.S my had the intention of paying £5000 for a plane.....HAHAHA)
Can ANYONE recommend a plane, Cheap, 3 or 4 seats, 1 engine, not a cessana
Thanks for the laugh i needed humouring cuz this story I HAVE to read is crap. lol
(P.S my had the intention of paying £5000 for a plane.....HAHAHA)
Can ANYONE recommend a plane, Cheap, 3 or 4 seats, 1 engine, not a cessana
Thanks for the laugh i needed humouring cuz this story I HAVE to read is crap. lol
Join Date: May 2004
Location: El Monte, California
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Karl - You are the luckiest person alive. Of course, I am the second luckiest. I have the fortune to find myself in a similar situation. I'm 16, learning to fly (along with my dad), and now he wants an airplane. Since he knows less about aviation in general than I do, I have been the one to look for a suitable plane. I turned him on to a diamond Xtreme motorglider and now he's dead set on getting a new one with all the options. Of course, I'll get to fly it too. I am hardly in a position to give advice, seeing as I'm just a young student pilot myself, but I have observed several things myself. The cost of insurance and maintenance will be higher than you expect. If the plane seems to be priced low, it may be nearing a required overhaul or major maintenance. It may be a type that has a certain mechanical quirk that makes it prone to malfunctions or costly repairs (Like a turbocharger). Make sure to do your research on those kinds of things if you see a plane you are interested in. How far do your parents want to fly? how much are they willing to spend on an aircraft, insurance, etc? How many people and their luggage do they want to be able to take? Let me know the answers to those things and I'll suggest some airplanes.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northampton Sywell
Age: 35
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Josh
I am the only pilot in the family an my mum was the one who said yes to my PPL my dad was NO but my mum over ruled him! Now he wants a plane?!(I wonder if it was anything to do with the 3 pints he had lmao!)
Cyprus is the longest (I'd entend to fly it in LEGS)But other than that spain, blackpool lol
No more than 30k (I think my dads dreaming)
Insurance? ahhh can you explain I havnt come accross this yet.
4 seats, 2 back 2 front. Light Luggage few pairs of clothes for a weekend stay.
Thanks Josh
p.s Maybe a share in an aircraft?
I am the only pilot in the family an my mum was the one who said yes to my PPL my dad was NO but my mum over ruled him! Now he wants a plane?!(I wonder if it was anything to do with the 3 pints he had lmao!)
Cyprus is the longest (I'd entend to fly it in LEGS)But other than that spain, blackpool lol
No more than 30k (I think my dads dreaming)
Insurance? ahhh can you explain I havnt come accross this yet.
4 seats, 2 back 2 front. Light Luggage few pairs of clothes for a weekend stay.
Thanks Josh
p.s Maybe a share in an aircraft?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Old??? I feel like a dinosaur!! How things change. At fifteen I had just bought my very own pushbike with my own money and felt really proud of my achievement 
Good luck to you mate - enjoy the backing of your parents, a lot of people aren't that lucky
On another slant though, would they not be better financing your ATPL? Then, with any luck you can reward them with a decent career and fly them about a few years down the line.
Good luck to you mate - enjoy the backing of your parents, a lot of people aren't that lucky
On another slant though, would they not be better financing your ATPL? Then, with any luck you can reward them with a decent career and fly them about a few years down the line.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northampton Sywell
Age: 35
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ps I am not spoilt proof below
Im not spoilt by the way, I do buy things for my self and I hold down two jobs to. (Weekly paper round and Saturday job) Ive brought my own bike to!
Atpl or airplane......thats hard (My mum did say they arnt funding after ppl though so a plane may be the only choice)
If i brought a plane with the regestration G-NSOF could I chnage it to G-BEET for an example? (G-BEET, KARL BEETSON!!!) What are CAA guidelines on this?
Atpl or airplane......thats hard (My mum did say they arnt funding after ppl though so a plane may be the only choice)
If i brought a plane with the regestration G-NSOF could I chnage it to G-BEET for an example? (G-BEET, KARL BEETSON!!!) What are CAA guidelines on this?
Join Date: May 2004
Location: El Monte, California
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Karl, a quick search turned up some planes that might meet your needs. All comments are what I scribbled down when I saw the planes, and all prices are in U.S. dollars. I'm assuming you meant 30,000 UK. Your dad isn't dreaming, you can get a nice used plane for around that.
Nicely outfitted 1976 PA28 Cherokee Warrior 49,800
Average 1981 Arrow IV 65,000
Nice 1960 PA24-250 Comanche 59,900
1975 Warrior 50,000
Nice 1963 Mooney M20C 42,000
Clean nice 1962 Cessna 172 32,500
Well Equipped 1971 Cessna 172 53,900
Very nice condition 1968 Cessna 177 Cardinal 49,900
Clean 1968 Cessna C177 Cardinal 36,500
Good condition 1972 Cessna 177RG 65,300
Be very careful when you go searching for insurance. I don't know how it is there, but here you will get exactly one quote. pick your insurer well. Explained here -
http://www.eaa.org/communications/ea...ce_market.html
A fractional ownership can be great, or it can be really bad. I suggest you research the larger fractionals like airshares and find what members have to say. I'd be very careful about single airplanes, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad idea, just be careful and find all you can about the other owners and the airplane itself.
If you have any other questions let me know.
Nicely outfitted 1976 PA28 Cherokee Warrior 49,800
Average 1981 Arrow IV 65,000
Nice 1960 PA24-250 Comanche 59,900
1975 Warrior 50,000
Nice 1963 Mooney M20C 42,000
Clean nice 1962 Cessna 172 32,500
Well Equipped 1971 Cessna 172 53,900
Very nice condition 1968 Cessna 177 Cardinal 49,900
Clean 1968 Cessna C177 Cardinal 36,500
Good condition 1972 Cessna 177RG 65,300
Be very careful when you go searching for insurance. I don't know how it is there, but here you will get exactly one quote. pick your insurer well. Explained here -
http://www.eaa.org/communications/ea...ce_market.html
A fractional ownership can be great, or it can be really bad. I suggest you research the larger fractionals like airshares and find what members have to say. I'd be very careful about single airplanes, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad idea, just be careful and find all you can about the other owners and the airplane itself.
If you have any other questions let me know.
The Original Whirly
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Posts: 4,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Karl,
Good luck to you. Don't listen to the jealous old farts who can't stand the fact that you're being handed on a plate what they had to work for. We all have different opportunities, and actually ALL of us who read this forum are highly privileged in being able to fly. Be grateful to your parents, as I'm sure you are. Oh, and for anyone who doesn't know, I'm old enough to be entitled to criticise those of my generation on here...I can barely even remember being 15!
Now, about that aeroplane. £30,000 will give you a pretty good choice. Which means we can't just recommentd "an aeroplane". You need to do some flying yourself before you know what sort of aircraft you want. For example, you might decide you like something nice and steady and and easy to fly that will take you and the family away for a weekend. A C172 is perfect for that, and you could get one within your price range (I think!). OTOH, you might decide after learning to fly that they are even more boring than staying on the ground on a wet weekend...which is what a fair number of pilots think.
So asking on here is great, but you need to do some other research too. Read the GA monthly mags - Pilot, Flyer, and Today's Pilot - if you aren't already, and look at the ads for aircraft. Hang around airfields and talk to people. When you get your PPL, definitely join a group; it will give you an insight into all the expenses and hassles with insurance, maintenance, the CAA etc.
And if it were me, and your parents don't mind, I'd buy a share in something (around £5000 or less), then ask your parents if you can have the other £25,000 towards your ATPL. If they don't mind, of course - after all, it's their money. But that does make a lot more sense.
Good luck!
Good luck to you. Don't listen to the jealous old farts who can't stand the fact that you're being handed on a plate what they had to work for. We all have different opportunities, and actually ALL of us who read this forum are highly privileged in being able to fly. Be grateful to your parents, as I'm sure you are. Oh, and for anyone who doesn't know, I'm old enough to be entitled to criticise those of my generation on here...I can barely even remember being 15!
Now, about that aeroplane. £30,000 will give you a pretty good choice. Which means we can't just recommentd "an aeroplane". You need to do some flying yourself before you know what sort of aircraft you want. For example, you might decide you like something nice and steady and and easy to fly that will take you and the family away for a weekend. A C172 is perfect for that, and you could get one within your price range (I think!). OTOH, you might decide after learning to fly that they are even more boring than staying on the ground on a wet weekend...which is what a fair number of pilots think.
So asking on here is great, but you need to do some other research too. Read the GA monthly mags - Pilot, Flyer, and Today's Pilot - if you aren't already, and look at the ads for aircraft. Hang around airfields and talk to people. When you get your PPL, definitely join a group; it will give you an insight into all the expenses and hassles with insurance, maintenance, the CAA etc.
And if it were me, and your parents don't mind, I'd buy a share in something (around £5000 or less), then ask your parents if you can have the other £25,000 towards your ATPL. If they don't mind, of course - after all, it's their money. But that does make a lot more sense.
Good luck!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Spanish Riviera
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
karl, good luck. I also want my own aircraft but need to do a little more in the way of ground work with 'Herself'.
One tip, if ANYONE tells you there is a cheap way of flying, they are being somewhat economic with the truth; there are only varying degrees of expense. However, compare flying with membership of a posh golf club or ownership of a nag or two, then you may be pleasantly surprised.
One tip, if ANYONE tells you there is a cheap way of flying, they are being somewhat economic with the truth; there are only varying degrees of expense. However, compare flying with membership of a posh golf club or ownership of a nag or two, then you may be pleasantly surprised.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Farnham
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Karl.
Some advice here.....you should allow around 10 - 15% of whatever your purchase budget is to put things right in the first year of ownership. My first plane was an Arrow 1 which I bought for 37K. I had a bill for 10K at the first annual. This kind of experience is not unique so DO NOT skimp on the pre purchase inspection.
Secondly you should allow a budget of 10 - 12K per year for fixed and variable running costs, that's based on maybe 100 hours per year.
Let me know if you want a breakdown of those costs.
Fly.....
Some advice here.....you should allow around 10 - 15% of whatever your purchase budget is to put things right in the first year of ownership. My first plane was an Arrow 1 which I bought for 37K. I had a bill for 10K at the first annual. This kind of experience is not unique so DO NOT skimp on the pre purchase inspection.
Secondly you should allow a budget of 10 - 12K per year for fixed and variable running costs, that's based on maybe 100 hours per year.
Let me know if you want a breakdown of those costs.
Fly.....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northampton Sywell
Age: 35
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
learnt already!
I have flown a piper warrior once and I like that plane although it was heavy I did a better takeoff in it than the normal trainner. 30K was the otal upper limit my dad inteaded 5 at first! Now 14K but Ive found some for 24k But now I am going to tell them about hangerage/maintaince etc costs so can someone tell me about that, please.
If engine hours are low whats that mean that its a new engine?
Can anyone reccommend a area of airframe limits ie not over so many hours etc? If the C of A doesnt run out till like 2007 is this good?
Thanks
If engine hours are low whats that mean that its a new engine?
Can anyone reccommend a area of airframe limits ie not over so many hours etc? If the C of A doesnt run out till like 2007 is this good?
Thanks