Flight Plans for GA, and do most pilots know how to use them?

[Aim Far]

Thanks Chilli Monster, that's very helpful.

[Slowsafecruise]

Filing a Flight Plan

A VFR flight plan must be filed at least 60 minutes before clearance to start or taxi is requested. Normally the flight plan is filed at the departure airfield that will pass it on to the relevant Parent ATSU Flight Briefing Unit. If the departure airfield will not be able to file the flight plan, it should be telephoned or faxed directly to the appropriate Parent ATSU Flight Briefing Unit:

London/Heathrow

TEL: [phone] FAX: [phone]

TEL: [phone] FAX: [phone]

Manchester

TEL: [phone] FAX: [phone]

TEL: [phone]

Scottish ACC

TEL: [phone] FAX : [phone]

TEL: [phone]

The ATSU or FBU must be advised as soon as possible of any cancellations or delays that will exceed 30 minutes, or changes to flight plan details.
If the flight lands at a place other than the flightplan destination, the destination must be informed within 30 minutes of the planned ETA there.

The above was taken from the 2004 UK VFR Flight Guide by AFE. Just thought it would help..

SSC

[Chilli Monster]

The above was taken from the 2004 UK VFR Flight Guide by AFE. Just thought it would help..

No - just muddying the waters somewhat.

That "60 minutes" quote is laid down because someone has decreed a time somewhere for the worst possible scenario - that of having to fax it to one of the FBU's.

However - you wander into an Ops room or into my tower where the person can tap it straight into a terminal, such as Copperchase - than that's it, hey presto, filed.

There is a difference between 'real world' and 'the book'

[BraceBrace]

When I started flying, I was trained to use a flightplan from the very first navigation flight. Not all students did this, however, to me it felt safe having a bell that would ring if "my time was up". I know plenty of pilots who aren't that keen on flightplans, but I don't understand why. IFR flightplans are a different thing, they are "actively used", VFR flightplans are "passive" documents, they are there "in case of".

It's a very good point by SSC: the purpose of a flightplan is to be able to track you down in case of doubt. 99% of the time everything's allright, a detailed flightplan seems unnecessary. But what if...

I consider a flightplan a document stating what you're going to do on this flight. You leave it behind and from the moment you open it, it's a ticking clock. You close it when reaching destination and that's it. But if you don't, it will ring a bell to some people. And THEN your flightplan becomes important, since it is THE source of information for the rescue services. Who is this guy? What was he doing? Where was he flying? Where should we go looking for him? It's a document where you, as PIC, leave all information required if someone would have to come looking for you. I consider that very important... cause I'd like them to find me as soon as possible. And yes, a mobile phone number is very usefull information, since if something happened... you'll probably be on the ground too.

[Cessna Boy]

Just reading the post with interest!
I learned to fly in UK and never logged a flight plan in reality. I did learn how to do it during my ATPL studies (and PPL if I remember correctly!), but never done it in real life!
Now live in OZ, different ball game! Flight plan for every flight. Would never dream of going outback without one, and makes life a lot easier entering into areas like Brisbane International. Always get codes assigned and clearance with no problems. If I ever come back to UK, will probably put one in for every Nav ex, just seems to make life a lot easier for all parties (only takes 5 mins to fill out).
I know its different out here, but if you can let as many people know what and when you are doing it it seems to make sense!I reckon all PPL's should be made to do them as part of the training as they are a pretty important part of the big picture!
CB

[Chilli Monster]

I know its different out here, but if you can let as many people know what and when you are doing it it seems to make sense!I reckon all PPL's should be made to do them as part of the training as they are a pretty important part of the big picture!

And indeed, if the UK had a fully integrated ATC sysyem then they would contribute to the big picture. However, we have a highly fragmented ATC system which needs to be torn up and re-drawn with a clean sheet of paper!

But don't start me on that particular hobby horse - please

[ATCO Two]

FFF,

Your assertion that routeing information on a VFR flightplan is ignored by ATC is misleading. The fact is that we do not usually have (or need) access to the information on the control positions as we merely write out a flight progress strip for each VFR flight as the pilot contacts us. In the event of something untoward happening, we can obtain details of the flight plan from the FBU. The detailed information on the FPL can then be used for SAR and alerting purposes.

[Slowsafecruise]

Chilli Monster

60 mins is probs a good time, it was decided by someone a while back and gives plenty of time for the 'Plan' to go through the system.. dont forget its not just yours going through, FBUs deal with VFR, and IFR and these all take time..

It is great if you can 'tap into the system' however most people cant do that so play it safe and file at least 60mins before!

SSC.

[bookworm]

b) Correct. IFR is different 30 minutes either side is acceptable, any different and it has to be changed or delayed. If an IFR plan is not activated within 30 minutes of EOBT then the IFPS computer dumps it and you have to re-file (so DLA's are important in those cases).

(Thought I posted this a couple of days ago but it didn't appear.)

Couple of points:

IFPS now requests DLA or refiling for changes in EOBT of 15 minutes or more. See the IFPS Users Manual

That said, I don't think FPLs do get dumped from the system after 15 (or even 30) mins. If there's no slot, I've always found considerable flexibility.

The ICAO limits come from PANS-RAC (now PANS-ATM), for which my oldish version says (II 8.2.1.2)

In the event of a delay of 30 mins in excess of the EOBT for a controlled flight or one hour for an uncontrolled flight for which a FPL has been submitted, the flight plan should be [delayed or refiled]

So if you pitch up on Ground 35 mins after your EOBT, ATC has the right to have thrown your strip in the bin, but generally speaking they don't.

[24Right]

And don't forget to file a FP for the return leg - I've seen pilots religiously fill in and file for their outbound journey, intending to return on the same route later in the day, but not filing for the return!

[Chilli Monster]

slowsafe

60 mins is probs a good time, it was decided by someone a while back and gives plenty of time for the 'Plan' to go through the system.. dont forget its not just yours going through, FBUs deal with VFR, and IFR and these all take time.

I refer you to my previous answer, where I'm actually agreeing that a plan submitted via an FBU should be 60 minutes. I'm just stating that it's not a hard and fast rule for every plan, but depending on how it's filed - and I speak as someone who uses the Flight Plan system from both sides of the coin and has worked in it for a considerable number of years

bookworm

So if you pitch up on Ground 35 mins after your EOBT, ATC has the right to have thrown your strip in the bin, but generally speaking they don't.

Ground might not have - but IFPS and therefore the UK host will have. End result is ground goes to ATCC for clearance, to be told "sorry mate, nothing in the system". Having been on the receiving end of that one it's amazing how fast you find your typing speed can be in an emergency (And the time between that submission and the strip being available on the sector, and therefore a clearance being issued, was 90 seconds!)

30 minute dump is still true (not 15 as you so rightly summise) especially as the 15 minute change is a 'request' but a 30 minute change is a requirement for just that reason

[bookworm]

30 minute dump is still true

This doesn't tally with my experience CM, though of course it may just be a case of local ATC being super-helpful and sending DLAs without my intervention. So you may well be correct.

Shall we ask on ATC Issues to see if anyone knows exactly what the automated purge process is?

[Chilli Monster]

This doesn't tally with my experience CM, though of course it may just be a case of local ATC being super-helpful and sending DLAs without my intervention.

Correct. It's something we normally do without being asked if we know the aircraft is definitely going (lack of movement or lack of passengers around the aircraft being a pretty good indication), but on this one occasion it didn't happen due to being tied up with other things and was overlooked. Without that 'DLA' it will disappear.

Another thing to add to this is if you're departing from an airfield within the FIR, but will be joing CAS someway into the flight (examples - aircraft departing the Bristol area joining at Stafa or Monty; 20-30 minutes flight time away). It's often worth asking for a departure message to be sent if you're running close to the 30 minute deadline, especially in a slower piston engined aircraft as you may find that you get to the airways joining point to find the dreaded "sorry, got no details" message again

[routechecker]

Chili Monster,

I'm afraid the IFPS "30 minute dump" thingy is incorrect.
The actual time parameter for Flight Data closure in IFPS is EOBT+Total EET+180 minutes.

Cheers