IMC rating diary
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IO540,
sorry, I wasn't trying to pin you down to an exact figure. At the end of the day, that really comes down to the blend of individual skill, experience and the aircraft. However, I am aware that some pilots only manage the 12 hours required to keep their ppl and even just for VFR I feel this is too little.
When are you planning on the IR? Have you used your IMC much in the meantime?
Cheers
Obs cop
sorry, I wasn't trying to pin you down to an exact figure. At the end of the day, that really comes down to the blend of individual skill, experience and the aircraft. However, I am aware that some pilots only manage the 12 hours required to keep their ppl and even just for VFR I feel this is too little.
When are you planning on the IR? Have you used your IMC much in the meantime?
Cheers
Obs cop
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IR, this year. I found an instructor who has both JAA and FAA ratings so he can teach it in my G-reg.
Once a plane goes N-reg, your IMCR becomes worthless (any IFR ops in an N-reg require an ICAO IR).
Your JAA/UK PPL becomes limited to day VMC only, UK only. So one needs an FAA PPL at least if flying an N-reg plane; not being to go abroad isn't very useful, generally.
I use the IMCR privileges a lot, certainly on >50% of flights. BUT this doesn't mean one flies in IMC all the time, or even much. It means one can do a flight which, on any prudent assessment of the weather, could never be done on a plain PPL. With a plain PPL, anytime there is actual or forecast cloud below the MSA, you can't go. In the UK, this alone means cancelling more than 50% of previously planned flights. With the IMCR, one might cancel perhaps 10-20%. On the day however, one often ends up in conditions which would not be actually illegal for a plain PPL (in sight of surface, basically
) It is just, as I say, that a PPL would (should!) never have gone.
Ocassionally, one departs into muck and sees nothing until coming out on the ILS at . But even if one is doing that, one might be VMC on top for most of the flight, which is pretty nice.
The usefulness of the IMCR depends on whether the destination has a useful IAP, and on the icing level. If you fly only into grass strips then the IMCR isn't likely to be very useful; the option to fly VMC on top is great but nobody should recommend with a straight face that somebody does that while not being able to fly an IAP at the end. If you go into larger airports, especially ones with an ILS, then it is the best single thing you can do to help your flying (apart from buying your own plane ).
The IMCR is worthless abroad for IFR although (there is some dissent on this one but the CAA have confirmed it in writing) having it does remove the "in sight of surface" restriction on the PPL, allowing one to fly VMC on top in a lot of places. One has to get down somehow of course, and legally without going through cloud. In practice, this offers some leeway regarding acceptable weather even outside the UK.
As a safety enhancement, instrument flight is unbeatable. Far safer above the MSA, in IMC, especially with a decent GPS, than below the MSA anywhere.
Once a plane goes N-reg, your IMCR becomes worthless (any IFR ops in an N-reg require an ICAO IR).
Your JAA/UK PPL becomes limited to day VMC only, UK only. So one needs an FAA PPL at least if flying an N-reg plane; not being to go abroad isn't very useful, generally.
I use the IMCR privileges a lot, certainly on >50% of flights. BUT this doesn't mean one flies in IMC all the time, or even much. It means one can do a flight which, on any prudent assessment of the weather, could never be done on a plain PPL. With a plain PPL, anytime there is actual or forecast cloud below the MSA, you can't go. In the UK, this alone means cancelling more than 50% of previously planned flights. With the IMCR, one might cancel perhaps 10-20%. On the day however, one often ends up in conditions which would not be actually illegal for a plain PPL (in sight of surface, basically
) It is just, as I say, that a PPL would (should!) never have gone.Ocassionally, one departs into muck and sees nothing until coming out on the ILS at . But even if one is doing that, one might be VMC on top for most of the flight, which is pretty nice.
The usefulness of the IMCR depends on whether the destination has a useful IAP, and on the icing level. If you fly only into grass strips then the IMCR isn't likely to be very useful; the option to fly VMC on top is great but nobody should recommend with a straight face that somebody does that while not being able to fly an IAP at the end. If you go into larger airports, especially ones with an ILS, then it is the best single thing you can do to help your flying (apart from buying your own plane
).The IMCR is worthless abroad for IFR although (there is some dissent on this one but the CAA have confirmed it in writing) having it does remove the "in sight of surface" restriction on the PPL, allowing one to fly VMC on top in a lot of places. One has to get down somehow of course, and legally without going through cloud. In practice, this offers some leeway regarding acceptable weather even outside the UK.
As a safety enhancement, instrument flight is unbeatable. Far safer above the MSA, in IMC, especially with a decent GPS, than below the MSA anywhere.
Last edited by IO540; 7th Sep 2004 at 20:38.
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Thanks for that IO540. I don't do a lot of grass strip flying, mainly large airfields so I'm expecting it to be quite handy.
Port strobe,
Is my take on the IMC particularly odd?
I feel a complex coming on now
Obs cop
Port strobe,
I'm finding your take on the IMC interesting
I feel a complex coming on now Obs cop
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One problem I've found with keeping currency is the rules on simulated IF. To log instrument hours means either flying in real IMC - which means seeking it out when there's perfectly good VMC around, not necessarily the safest option in your average flying school spamcan - or bringing another pilot along to act as safety pilot. In practice therefore I find it difficult to get enough IMC hours in without planning especially to do so.
On the question of that 'safety pilot': I've seen it quoted before that they have to be rated on type/class, but it doesn't say that in the ANO, at least not in the bit about simulated flight in IMC. Anyone know where the reference to qualifications is? I've got a couple of airline pilot friends who would make excellent safety pilots but neither has a current SEP rating.
Tim
On the question of that 'safety pilot': I've seen it quoted before that they have to be rated on type/class, but it doesn't say that in the ANO, at least not in the bit about simulated flight in IMC. Anyone know where the reference to qualifications is? I've got a couple of airline pilot friends who would make excellent safety pilots but neither has a current SEP rating.
Tim
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Hour 5
Another bostin day for flying and another under the hood.
Mind you, there is a definate purpose to what I am trying to achieve so with that in mind it is much more enjoyable than being on the ground. In any case, today's plan was a radio aid navex routing from coventry via Lichfield NDB, Trent VOR, East to intercept the Gamston VOR to track south towards Leicester NDB and then back to Coventry NDB for tea, stickies and medals. Sounded simple but there were 3 areas of concern before I even got airbourne.
1. With the hood on, cockpit management is a nightmare and even more so as todays flight was to be in a PA28 as my regular mount was booked up.
2. I would be doing 2 crossings of class D airspace, something I hadn't done for a while.
3. Oh did I mention the cockpit management in an unfamiliar aircraft!
In essence, my fears were quickly allayed by a few aids. My usual mount does not have DME but the PA28 does, so at least I will now be able to figure out distances aswell. The second is not obvious from the ground.
Checks, takeoff etc. were uneventful but I did take the chance to set up my nav radios early to ease my workload. I have flown this particular PA28 before and to be honest I really enjoy flying them much more than a 152. But once clear of mother earth, we encountered huge amounts of turbulence and quite a hefty wind from the East. A quick climb ensued and by 700 feet agl I was under the hood. My track of the Lichfield NDB seemed much better today compared to last flight and I tracked all the way to it quite well. We had climbed to 3000 feet and I was doing some but not all of the radio calls. In reality, my brain is just starting to free up some of its capacity from the instruments, but only just. Just prior to LIC I called East Midlands and asked for an area transit. They were spot on, and granted us our route direct from LIC to the Trent VOR. Now my excellent ground based idea of pre-tuning the VOR fell apart when I idented it. The morse ident was DTY.
Ah.. quick check, I had set the DME to Trent (TNT) thinking it was the VOR and ended up forgetting to set the VOR up. Quite an easy mistake to make in an unfamiliar cockpit, but I impressed myself with the fact that I figured it out so efficiently and quickly. Dialled up to TNT, I quickly idented the VOR and tested it as we got to LIC. Reporting on top LIC I got my clearance to enter East Mids area to cross at 3000 with a FIS. My track to TNT and then outbound from it on the 090 radial was quite uneventful and I then continued the route offering my instructor the envied luxury of a great view of Nottingham City.
By using the Nottingham NDB, I could easily figure out when I was going to be near to the 190 Gamston VOR radial, so re-tuning the VOR and identing it to Gamston I patiently waited for the needle to move. And almost on cue it did. It was about now that I figured the improvement in my flying was probably more down to the plane than me. The PA28 is a far more stable instrument platform than a bouncy 152 and bar the odd deviation I was now maintaining +/- 100 feet and +/- 5 degrees of indicated heading. Now these are no great accuracies I know, but hey this is a learnt skill, and after only 4 hours practice under the hood I think I'm getting there.
Having intercepted the gamstom VOR quite well we were tracking south and I made a further call to East Mids to transit the Eastern end of their Area this time. I must have been near to their climb out area as on entering their area I went from being under a FIS to Radar Control. In effect, this was their way of saying yes you can come in, but only if we control your height and heading to prevent confliction with other traffic. I behaved myself and lo and behold, we tracked direct towards the Leicester NDB with no need to change heading or height. Given practice, NDB tracking is not too bad, and after a short while we went through Leicester's overhead and turned for Coventry. We were positioned well for an ILS to runway 23 but with an easterley wind, we had to settle for a visual join on downwind for 05.
My instructor was more than happy with the flight and so we are now going to move onto the 3rd stage of the IMC course. I can (apparently
)fly with sole reference to instruments and can now find my way around. Next is getting back onto to ground................the bit I have been looking forwards to most. With this in mind we are going in at the challenging end and will be looking at NDB approaches, back in the 152 with no DME.
If anyone is considering an IMC rating and can do it in a nicely equipped PA28 then do so, by a long way a far more stable instrument platform than Mr Cessna's twin seat trainer for the masses. Shame I have limited resources or I would do all 15 hours in a PA28.
Cheers
Obs cop
Another bostin day for flying and another under the hood.
Mind you, there is a definate purpose to what I am trying to achieve so with that in mind it is much more enjoyable than being on the ground. In any case, today's plan was a radio aid navex routing from coventry via Lichfield NDB, Trent VOR, East to intercept the Gamston VOR to track south towards Leicester NDB and then back to Coventry NDB for tea, stickies and medals. Sounded simple but there were 3 areas of concern before I even got airbourne.
1. With the hood on, cockpit management is a nightmare and even more so as todays flight was to be in a PA28 as my regular mount was booked up.
2. I would be doing 2 crossings of class D airspace, something I hadn't done for a while.
3. Oh did I mention the cockpit management in an unfamiliar aircraft!
In essence, my fears were quickly allayed by a few aids. My usual mount does not have DME but the PA28 does, so at least I will now be able to figure out distances aswell. The second is not obvious from the ground.
Checks, takeoff etc. were uneventful but I did take the chance to set up my nav radios early to ease my workload. I have flown this particular PA28 before and to be honest I really enjoy flying them much more than a 152. But once clear of mother earth, we encountered huge amounts of turbulence and quite a hefty wind from the East. A quick climb ensued and by 700 feet agl I was under the hood. My track of the Lichfield NDB seemed much better today compared to last flight and I tracked all the way to it quite well. We had climbed to 3000 feet and I was doing some but not all of the radio calls. In reality, my brain is just starting to free up some of its capacity from the instruments, but only just. Just prior to LIC I called East Midlands and asked for an area transit. They were spot on, and granted us our route direct from LIC to the Trent VOR. Now my excellent ground based idea of pre-tuning the VOR fell apart when I idented it. The morse ident was DTY.
Ah.. quick check, I had set the DME to Trent (TNT) thinking it was the VOR and ended up forgetting to set the VOR up. Quite an easy mistake to make in an unfamiliar cockpit, but I impressed myself with the fact that I figured it out so efficiently and quickly. Dialled up to TNT, I quickly idented the VOR and tested it as we got to LIC. Reporting on top LIC I got my clearance to enter East Mids area to cross at 3000 with a FIS. My track to TNT and then outbound from it on the 090 radial was quite uneventful and I then continued the route offering my instructor the envied luxury of a great view of Nottingham City.
By using the Nottingham NDB, I could easily figure out when I was going to be near to the 190 Gamston VOR radial, so re-tuning the VOR and identing it to Gamston I patiently waited for the needle to move. And almost on cue it did. It was about now that I figured the improvement in my flying was probably more down to the plane than me. The PA28 is a far more stable instrument platform than a bouncy 152 and bar the odd deviation I was now maintaining +/- 100 feet and +/- 5 degrees of indicated heading. Now these are no great accuracies I know, but hey this is a learnt skill, and after only 4 hours practice under the hood I think I'm getting there.
Having intercepted the gamstom VOR quite well we were tracking south and I made a further call to East Mids to transit the Eastern end of their Area this time. I must have been near to their climb out area as on entering their area I went from being under a FIS to Radar Control. In effect, this was their way of saying yes you can come in, but only if we control your height and heading to prevent confliction with other traffic. I behaved myself and lo and behold, we tracked direct towards the Leicester NDB with no need to change heading or height. Given practice, NDB tracking is not too bad, and after a short while we went through Leicester's overhead and turned for Coventry. We were positioned well for an ILS to runway 23 but with an easterley wind, we had to settle for a visual join on downwind for 05.
My instructor was more than happy with the flight and so we are now going to move onto the 3rd stage of the IMC course. I can (apparently
)fly with sole reference to instruments and can now find my way around. Next is getting back onto to ground................the bit I have been looking forwards to most. With this in mind we are going in at the challenging end and will be looking at NDB approaches, back in the 152 with no DME. If anyone is considering an IMC rating and can do it in a nicely equipped PA28 then do so, by a long way a far more stable instrument platform than Mr Cessna's twin seat trainer for the masses. Shame I have limited resources or I would do all 15 hours in a PA28.
Cheers
Obs cop
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Half way
A few of the lessons so far have had the odd 10 minutes or so on the end, so I have now done just over 7 hours which is half way, give or take 20 mins in the logbook.
Anyway,
We had planned for NDB approaches for this lesson and I can tell you it was one I was not really looking forawrds to. The hardest thing is the mental agility required as the ADF needle is not overlaid on your DI and so you have a continual fight figuring out where you need to be headed. Typically the weather was glorious.
As a side issue, for those who want to know when to slap the suncream on a bunk a day off work, PM me and I'll let you know when I am flying next. Monday to Wednesday this week, dire windy gloomy weather. Thursday, IMC lesson, 20k vis, no clouds loads of sun.
The astute may well know that I fly from Coventry and the idea of learning NDB approaches whilst avoiding wake turbulence from a 737 and constantly getting in the way of faster twins doing IR's is not really what I would call good sport. So the plan was to head over to Leicester and to practice a simulated approach using their NDB, to runway 28. All was well and good until we took off. We simulated an IMC departure so no sooner had I reached 500 feet and started to turn crosswind before departing from the downwind, than my instructor took control and my hood came down. I then went onto instruments and found it very hard to level out. I had gone onto instruments in a steady balanced climbing turn, and I had to force myself to follow and trust the AI. My "seat of the pants" believed that our climbing turn was indeed level and I had my first episode of the leans since my first lesson. The past few hour experience did however help because my scan has developed so that I can now easily cross check the instruments to reassure my head that the AI is not lying, my backside is.
The transit to Leicester was uneventful and I am now doing about 60% of the radio calls. ATC deals with us as if we are VFR and so I can't call overheads or traffic, but my awareness and capacity seems to be improving. The optimism is short lived however..................
The first thing we did having homed the Leicester NDB was a hold. Now whilst I had always thought these would be a perfect oval, I couldn't have been further from the truth. The wind means that virtually all holds will become a pear shape for the following reason. All turns are rate 1 and so in still air would have constant radius, but neading into wind the radius is smaller and with a tailwind, the radius becomes larger. We turned overhead the beacon and in doing so turned into wind. Thus our turn ended up being quite tight and it left us with an outbound track close to the beacon. This is altered by varying your heading by 3 times the wind correction angle towards the wind, and the result is a track that distances your aircraft from the inbound track. When you then turn back towards your inbound track, your new found tailwind greatly increases your turn radius, but because you positioned out wider in the first place, theoretically you end up right on track for your inbound run. 
We tried a hold, with my instructor guiding me through it, and bingo, it worked. The practice is far easier than my description indicates, but it takes a huge amount of wherewithall to keep the plane on the numbers. We went from the hold into an NDB approach to 28. Whoa there, this plane has no pilot. It does however have a sweating imbecile who can no longer track a set QDM, work a timer and figure out altitude changes at the same time. Beacon out bound, set heading, start clock and wait for the turn. 30 seconds elapse before I realise I should have been descending from 2000 to 1500 feet on the outbound leg. Now my scan gets rushed as I try to get down in the remaining time before I have to start the turn inbound. I'm behind the aircraft and the guidance from my right is essential just to keep me there. 2 minutes 30, 1500 feet, level off and start the turn, and there is a God as I roll out on a QDM of 280. Vary my heading by 10 degrees to the south and hope, and DESCEND Missed it again, but now only by 5 or 6 seconds. Following the QDM in, we continue all the way to our 600' minimum descent height (MDH) which we maintain al the way to the overhead and into a missed approach.
The second attempt was far less eventful, but time was of the essence and so we had to head back to base. The initial plan was to self position for an ILS but a 737 was inbound and corporate traffic screaming through the CT overhead meant we couldn't even play NDB homing on the way back. So, obviously curve ball time as my AI and DI was failed. The result was my first attempt at partial panel.
I sweated over my best friend the turn coordinator, left the throttle well alone and made tiny adjustments on the control column. So far so good, but we had to descend to get under Birmingham's airspace which put us right in the middle of the turbulence. Now if you have ever tried to balance a pencil on it's tip on your finger you know what I am going through. Tiny moments of joy and elation as it appears to be balanced, followed by the realisation that it's moved and without a quick but delicate touch you could well lose it. This is the most demanding thing I have done so far, my capacity vanished, my RT became sloppy and my brain hurt.
Next lesson,
Unusual attitudes and recovery on full and partial panel.
My studying is going well and so I took a mock exam and got 88%, so I'll probably try for the real thing at my next lesson as well.
For those who have been following this, I hope it goes some way to describing what is in the syllabus (which in itself is very flexible). For those who are considering doing an IMC, ask yourself how easy you found your PPL. I would suggest, the harder you found the PPL, then the more experience you get before starting an IMC rating the better. It will almost certainly make you a better pilot and increases your knowledge dramatically, but I feel I massively underated the amount of effort and ability required. It is terribly rewarding however.
Regards
Obs cop
A few of the lessons so far have had the odd 10 minutes or so on the end, so I have now done just over 7 hours which is half way, give or take 20 mins in the logbook.
Anyway,
We had planned for NDB approaches for this lesson and I can tell you it was one I was not really looking forawrds to. The hardest thing is the mental agility required as the ADF needle is not overlaid on your DI and so you have a continual fight figuring out where you need to be headed. Typically the weather was glorious.
As a side issue, for those who want to know when to slap the suncream on a bunk a day off work, PM me and I'll let you know when I am flying next. Monday to Wednesday this week, dire windy gloomy weather. Thursday, IMC lesson, 20k vis, no clouds loads of sun.
The astute may well know that I fly from Coventry and the idea of learning NDB approaches whilst avoiding wake turbulence from a 737 and constantly getting in the way of faster twins doing IR's is not really what I would call good sport. So the plan was to head over to Leicester and to practice a simulated approach using their NDB, to runway 28. All was well and good until we took off. We simulated an IMC departure so no sooner had I reached 500 feet and started to turn crosswind before departing from the downwind, than my instructor took control and my hood came down. I then went onto instruments and found it very hard to level out. I had gone onto instruments in a steady balanced climbing turn, and I had to force myself to follow and trust the AI. My "seat of the pants" believed that our climbing turn was indeed level and I had my first episode of the leans since my first lesson. The past few hour experience did however help because my scan has developed so that I can now easily cross check the instruments to reassure my head that the AI is not lying, my backside is.
The transit to Leicester was uneventful and I am now doing about 60% of the radio calls. ATC deals with us as if we are VFR and so I can't call overheads or traffic, but my awareness and capacity seems to be improving. The optimism is short lived however..................
The first thing we did having homed the Leicester NDB was a hold. Now whilst I had always thought these would be a perfect oval, I couldn't have been further from the truth. The wind means that virtually all holds will become a pear shape for the following reason. All turns are rate 1 and so in still air would have constant radius, but neading into wind the radius is smaller and with a tailwind, the radius becomes larger. We turned overhead the beacon and in doing so turned into wind. Thus our turn ended up being quite tight and it left us with an outbound track close to the beacon. This is altered by varying your heading by 3 times the wind correction angle towards the wind, and the result is a track that distances your aircraft from the inbound track. When you then turn back towards your inbound track, your new found tailwind greatly increases your turn radius, but because you positioned out wider in the first place, theoretically you end up right on track for your inbound run.
We tried a hold, with my instructor guiding me through it, and bingo, it worked. The practice is far easier than my description indicates, but it takes a huge amount of wherewithall to keep the plane on the numbers. We went from the hold into an NDB approach to 28. Whoa there, this plane has no pilot. It does however have a sweating imbecile who can no longer track a set QDM, work a timer and figure out altitude changes at the same time. Beacon out bound, set heading, start clock and wait for the turn. 30 seconds elapse before I realise I should have been descending from 2000 to 1500 feet on the outbound leg. Now my scan gets rushed as I try to get down in the remaining time before I have to start the turn inbound. I'm behind the aircraft and the guidance from my right is essential just to keep me there. 2 minutes 30, 1500 feet, level off and start the turn, and there is a God as I roll out on a QDM of 280. Vary my heading by 10 degrees to the south and hope, and DESCEND
Missed it again, but now only by 5 or 6 seconds. Following the QDM in, we continue all the way to our 600' minimum descent height (MDH) which we maintain al the way to the overhead and into a missed approach.The second attempt was far less eventful, but time was of the essence and so we had to head back to base. The initial plan was to self position for an ILS but a 737 was inbound and corporate traffic screaming through the CT overhead meant we couldn't even play NDB homing on the way back. So, obviously curve ball time as my AI and DI was failed. The result was my first attempt at partial panel.
I sweated over my best friend the turn coordinator, left the throttle well alone and made tiny adjustments on the control column. So far so good, but we had to descend to get under Birmingham's airspace which put us right in the middle of the turbulence. Now if you have ever tried to balance a pencil on it's tip on your finger you know what I am going through. Tiny moments of joy and elation as it appears to be balanced, followed by the realisation that it's moved and without a quick but delicate touch you could well lose it. This is the most demanding thing I have done so far, my capacity vanished, my RT became sloppy and my brain hurt.
Next lesson,
Unusual attitudes and recovery on full and partial panel.
My studying is going well and so I took a mock exam and got 88%, so I'll probably try for the real thing at my next lesson as well.
For those who have been following this, I hope it goes some way to describing what is in the syllabus (which in itself is very flexible). For those who are considering doing an IMC, ask yourself how easy you found your PPL. I would suggest, the harder you found the PPL, then the more experience you get before starting an IMC rating the better. It will almost certainly make you a better pilot and increases your knowledge dramatically, but I feel I massively underated the amount of effort and ability required. It is terribly rewarding however.
Regards
Obs cop
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Cool OBS Cop - an anjoyable read!
I did my IMC lesson number one today - great fun! It does make your brain ache a bit: how feeble one feels as the thinking gets harder!
Andy
I did my IMC lesson number one today - great fun! It does make your brain ache a bit: how feeble one feels as the thinking gets harder!
Andy
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Informative as ever and entertainingly written too Obs cop!
Your last paragraph has reinforced what I was thinking re starting my IMC. I've only completed around 15 hours since gaining my PPL and (worse still!) just completed the check-out in the Arrow which would be used for IMC training.
Now while (in all modesty) I didnt find the PPL difficult, I rekon I'll need a good few more hours in the Arrow to get used to its handling and to the different panel and nav. aids before starting my IMC.
I must admit you are certainly opening my eyes to how difficult instrument flying can be to learn!
Your last paragraph has reinforced what I was thinking re starting my IMC. I've only completed around 15 hours since gaining my PPL and (worse still!) just completed the check-out in the Arrow which would be used for IMC training.
Now while (in all modesty) I didnt find the PPL difficult, I rekon I'll need a good few more hours in the Arrow to get used to its handling and to the different panel and nav. aids before starting my IMC.
I must admit you are certainly opening my eyes to how difficult instrument flying can be to learn!
Keep it coming Obs Cop brings back fond memories of doing my IMC many moons ago. Unfortunately for me, after tucking the C150 into the hangar my instructor said the fateful words "fancy a go in the Twin Com". I ended up doing my multi rating in the Twin Commanche and my IMC in a C150 in parallel. Quite entertaining juggling the different speeds etc as I went from one aircraft to another. Ah well I was younger then and had more of my brain cells working! Unfortunately both ratings are long since lapsed and I spend my flying time attempting to influence the direction my pet Auster choses to go as we wend our way from one grass strip to another.
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Cabotage Kid,
By my reckoning there is a 500 foot window of opportunity for VNC beneath MSA.
You can't fly closer than 500 feet to any structure and the MSA is generally 1000' above the highest structure/obstacle. Hence I figure if the cloud base is at MSA you have 500 foot to play with, any lower than MSA and you limit the available airspace (assuming you don't just meander through the tall obstacles 500' from the ground!)
Just my thoughts,
Murphy,
Whilst in my IF infancy, from a learning point of view the following may be of note for you. The Arrow is quite a bit quicker than a 152 and thus 2 main things will affect you. Firstly you will cover the ground a bit quicker which will require more effort to keep ahead of the plane. Secondly, a rate 1 turn at higher speeds is far greater radius, meaning you will need to be more accurate when intercepting radials and the ILS. Whilst both are slight negatives, I found the warrior (and therefore the Arrow I would summise) to be great for IMC work because it is a far more stable aircraft than a 152 = less work needed to hold headings (Oh and rudder trim is very usefull). I would suggest that you get very familiar with the cockpit because cockpit management is a nightmare with a hood/goggles on. You have no peripheral vision so knowing where switches, gauges etc. are helps big time and again cuts down on your workload.
Oh and finally, if anyone else is currently doing their IMC rating, please feel free to post on this thread as knowledge shared is better than knowledge kept.
Regards
Obs cop
PS At least I can then laugh with other's misfortune.
By my reckoning there is a 500 foot window of opportunity for VNC beneath MSA.
You can't fly closer than 500 feet to any structure and the MSA is generally 1000' above the highest structure/obstacle. Hence I figure if the cloud base is at MSA you have 500 foot to play with, any lower than MSA and you limit the available airspace (assuming you don't just meander through the tall obstacles 500' from the ground!)
Just my thoughts,
Murphy,
Whilst in my IF infancy, from a learning point of view the following may be of note for you. The Arrow is quite a bit quicker than a 152 and thus 2 main things will affect you. Firstly you will cover the ground a bit quicker which will require more effort to keep ahead of the plane. Secondly, a rate 1 turn at higher speeds is far greater radius, meaning you will need to be more accurate when intercepting radials and the ILS. Whilst both are slight negatives, I found the warrior (and therefore the Arrow I would summise) to be great for IMC work because it is a far more stable aircraft than a 152 = less work needed to hold headings (Oh and rudder trim is very usefull). I would suggest that you get very familiar with the cockpit because cockpit management is a nightmare with a hood/goggles on. You have no peripheral vision so knowing where switches, gauges etc. are helps big time and again cuts down on your workload.
Oh and finally, if anyone else is currently doing their IMC rating, please feel free to post on this thread as knowledge shared is better than knowledge kept.
Regards
Obs cop
PS At least I can then laugh with other's misfortune.
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Obs,
VFR MSA is usually calculated as 10nm either side of your track as opposed to IFR MSA which is usually 5nm either side of track. The MSA is the heigher of 1300' above terrain or 1000' above structures. In many sitations it is a pretty straight forward business to fly below the MSA in VMC without dodging things and still being 2000' clear of the ground.
VFR MSA is usually calculated as 10nm either side of your track as opposed to IFR MSA which is usually 5nm either side of track. The MSA is the heigher of 1300' above terrain or 1000' above structures. In many sitations it is a pretty straight forward business to fly below the MSA in VMC without dodging things and still being 2000' clear of the ground.
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Cabotage,
your post seems to contradict itself unless I am being particularly thick.
If your MSA is 1300' above the ground, how can you fly at 2000' and be below your MSA? Surely if you are 2000' above the terrain then you are above your MSA as that is only 1300' above terrain.
Obs cop
your post seems to contradict itself unless I am being particularly thick.
If your MSA is 1300' above the ground, how can you fly at 2000' and be below your MSA? Surely if you are 2000' above the terrain then you are above your MSA as that is only 1300' above terrain.
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If your MSA is 1300' above the ground, how can you fly at 2000' and be below your MSA?
(Or, I gather, it's usually more polite to fly down the right hand side of the valley, treating the valley's centre line as a "line feature" that you keep on your left.)
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Obs,
Appologies, you are not being think it is my lousy text. The obstacle is at 1300 so the MSA is 2300.
I don't wish to get hung up about this as there are not specific rules on the subject so the term "the MSA" is a little misleading. I just wanted to point out that flying VFR below 'the MSA' is pretty common practice and so is VFR flying below a cloudbase which is below the MSA. Obviously, should you inadvertantly fly into cloud you need to climb to the MSA and then can't descend until visual with the ground again.
BTW, I'm enjoying your thread very much and am glad I'm not the only one to find the ADF less than easy!
Cheers,
CK.
Appologies, you are not being think it is my lousy text. The obstacle is at 1300 so the MSA is 2300.
I don't wish to get hung up about this as there are not specific rules on the subject so the term "the MSA" is a little misleading. I just wanted to point out that flying VFR below 'the MSA' is pretty common practice and so is VFR flying below a cloudbase which is below the MSA. Obviously, should you inadvertantly fly into cloud you need to climb to the MSA and then can't descend until visual with the ground again.
BTW, I'm enjoying your thread very much and am glad I'm not the only one to find the ADF less than easy!
Cheers,
CK.
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No problems Cabotage,
Just checking my maths skills had not failed me Glad you are enjoying the diary, next flight is on Friday. Something I have never said before is that I hope there is plenty of cloud about!
Obs cop
Just checking my maths skills had not failed me
Glad you are enjoying the diary, next flight is on Friday. Something I have never said before is that I hope there is plenty of cloud about!Obs cop
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Lesson Seven
I am now getting quite upset as yesterday there was a significant amount of cloud about, and being quite sad I was looking forwards to some genuine IMC. But, yet again I an jinxed as we have had crystal clear blue skies this morning.
The briefing was fairly straightforwards as today we would be looking at what is in effect the emergencies area of the IMC rating. The easiest way to triple the workload of IMC flying is to lose the suction which in most aircraft powers the AI and DI. Fortunately, designers being clever people have provided enough bits that you would still be able to remain upright and could subsequently land.
Partial panel or limited panel leaves you with 5 main instruments, 3 pressure (ASI, Altimeter and VSI), one magnetic compass and the turn coordinator. Lastly you have your tacho for power settings, which in the absence of an AI become quite important.
The pressure instruments now pretty much remain as before, but due to the lack of AI, they now become the primary indicators for pitch, by using ASI to climb at a set speed and altimiter to fly level. Using them is quite simple in isolation, but putting them into your scan correctly take practice.
The magnetic compass has very little short term stability and due to magnetic dip, can be somewhat temperamental around northerly and southerly headings. Moreover, it is very hard to use in turns, and so in IMC, we tend to revert to rate 1 turns and timing the turn.
The most impressive instrument is the turn co-ordinator. This is an electrically powered rate gyro, in that it will tell you the rate of change of a particular movement. If mounted fore and aft, it whould only give you the rate of change of heading and therefore your rate of turn (as used in turn and slip indicators), but it is mounted at a 30 degree angle to the horizontal so that it also registers a rate of change of bank. This simple change means that it becomes quite sensitive and can tell you if the plane is changing heading or angle of bank. The pilot's problem is that you cannot easily differentiate between the two at a glance. If the instrument is level then you are flying straight, and your bank angle is not changing, but you could have a steady 15 degrees of bank and a bootfull of opposite rudder. Your angle of bank isn't changing and due to the out of balance flight with the rudder, neither is your heading. The instrument will indicate wings level even though they are not. The solution is quite simply to be in balanced flight at all times. If you are in balanced flight, then the only time the turn co-ordinator is level is when the wings are level, you are not turning and you are not cahnging your angle of bank.
We flew out towards Daventry and to the North and climbed to 4000' to give us some room to play. The hood went on at about 500' and I tracked quite tidily out to the Daventry VOR before turnind North. My ability and awareness seems to be getting much better as I could fly and talk and operate the plane without losing the plot. I was, as they say "Ahead of the plane". A pleasant treat before the upcoming events.
Once established at 4000' we started to look at some unusual attitudes and recovery. With the AI this was quite easy as nose high is a similar recovery to a stall, ie. full throttle, lower the nose and roll wings level. Again for nose low, the recovery is the same as for a spiral dive, power off, roll the wings level then ease out of the dive. As there was nothing dramatic, we moved quickly on and wouldn't you know it, the suction failed. How spooky, we had only just been talking about that before the flight.
Transferring my scan to the remaining instruments was fairly easy, but the concentration required was immense. Without the pitch and roll information combined I quickly found myself behind the aircraft. I could stop it turning, but every time I looked away from the altimeter, it climbed or descended by 150' and every time I concentrated on getting level, the turn co-ordiantor veered off. I could have hung wall paper more easily wiht one hand than this. And now the voice from my right wants me to fly a set heading. Surely man is not capable of such a monstrous feat of human endeavour!. Now I had had 5 minutes of intro to partial panel in my last lesson, but my subconcious had obviously thought better of retaining that knowledge. We now had a 10 minute fight where I finally beat the aircraft into submission and managed to glimpse the delights of straight and level flight on a set heading.
The next step was a timed turn. Now, the rate 1 turn is 3 degrees per second which means all of a sudden I have the overwhelming desire to fly headings that are multiples of 30. No such luck, as my ineptitude meant my first turn was 32 seconds to reach heading. Roll out and wait for the compass, and realise I am nowhere near my desired heading needing a further turn for 7 seconds. Why am I at 3700'? Never mind, maintain heading, climb back up and then we try two complete turns. I manage to get withing 20 degrees with each and personally feel quite chuffed at that. Then into unusual attitudes.
The recovery is the same as for full panel and indeed, the various nose high attitudes don't seem to cause much problem. What does take me aback is how firm you need to be in rolling level when doing the nose down attitudes. In short, depsite my fears, the previous stuff practiced in the lesson seemed to help markedly and it all went quite smoothly.
We returned back towards base using partial panel and were offered an SRA approach. Never one to say no we said yes and just as we did, the suction started to work again. Now I quite like SRA's as all I have to do is what I am told (something my wife would probably want me to do at home
). The controller was very calm and spouted huge amounts of information at me. What did make me chuckle was the request to check my gear was down. So I obliged by looking out to my left to make sure our fixed gear hadn't mysteriously vanished, but no there it was. Following the instructions had us pop out of simulated cloud pointed at the threshold of runway 23 for landing.
All told an enjoyable but hard lesson. What it has done is improved my awarness of flying in balance and my confidence in interpreting limited panel. What it has taught me is that in a real suction failure, partial panel situation I will be making as much use of assistance as I can using such things as radar vectors to ILs or SRA approaches.
Cheers
Obs cop
I am now getting quite upset as yesterday there was a significant amount of cloud about, and being quite sad I was looking forwards to some genuine IMC. But, yet again I an jinxed as we have had crystal clear blue skies this morning.
The briefing was fairly straightforwards as today we would be looking at what is in effect the emergencies area of the IMC rating. The easiest way to triple the workload of IMC flying is to lose the suction which in most aircraft powers the AI and DI. Fortunately, designers being clever people have provided enough bits that you would still be able to remain upright and could subsequently land.
Partial panel or limited panel leaves you with 5 main instruments, 3 pressure (ASI, Altimeter and VSI), one magnetic compass and the turn coordinator. Lastly you have your tacho for power settings, which in the absence of an AI become quite important.
The pressure instruments now pretty much remain as before, but due to the lack of AI, they now become the primary indicators for pitch, by using ASI to climb at a set speed and altimiter to fly level. Using them is quite simple in isolation, but putting them into your scan correctly take practice.
The magnetic compass has very little short term stability and due to magnetic dip, can be somewhat temperamental around northerly and southerly headings. Moreover, it is very hard to use in turns, and so in IMC, we tend to revert to rate 1 turns and timing the turn.
The most impressive instrument is the turn co-ordinator. This is an electrically powered rate gyro, in that it will tell you the rate of change of a particular movement. If mounted fore and aft, it whould only give you the rate of change of heading and therefore your rate of turn (as used in turn and slip indicators), but it is mounted at a 30 degree angle to the horizontal so that it also registers a rate of change of bank. This simple change means that it becomes quite sensitive and can tell you if the plane is changing heading or angle of bank. The pilot's problem is that you cannot easily differentiate between the two at a glance. If the instrument is level then you are flying straight, and your bank angle is not changing, but you could have a steady 15 degrees of bank and a bootfull of opposite rudder. Your angle of bank isn't changing and due to the out of balance flight with the rudder, neither is your heading. The instrument will indicate wings level even though they are not. The solution is quite simply to be in balanced flight at all times. If you are in balanced flight, then the only time the turn co-ordinator is level is when the wings are level, you are not turning and you are not cahnging your angle of bank.
We flew out towards Daventry and to the North and climbed to 4000' to give us some room to play. The hood went on at about 500' and I tracked quite tidily out to the Daventry VOR before turnind North. My ability and awareness seems to be getting much better as I could fly and talk and operate the plane without losing the plot. I was, as they say "Ahead of the plane". A pleasant treat before the upcoming events.
Once established at 4000' we started to look at some unusual attitudes and recovery. With the AI this was quite easy as nose high is a similar recovery to a stall, ie. full throttle, lower the nose and roll wings level. Again for nose low, the recovery is the same as for a spiral dive, power off, roll the wings level then ease out of the dive. As there was nothing dramatic, we moved quickly on and wouldn't you know it, the suction failed. How spooky, we had only just been talking about that before the flight.
Transferring my scan to the remaining instruments was fairly easy, but the concentration required was immense. Without the pitch and roll information combined I quickly found myself behind the aircraft. I could stop it turning, but every time I looked away from the altimeter, it climbed or descended by 150' and every time I concentrated on getting level, the turn co-ordiantor veered off. I could have hung wall paper more easily wiht one hand than this. And now the voice from my right wants me to fly a set heading. Surely man is not capable of such a monstrous feat of human endeavour!. Now I had had 5 minutes of intro to partial panel in my last lesson, but my subconcious had obviously thought better of retaining that knowledge. We now had a 10 minute fight where I finally beat the aircraft into submission and managed to glimpse the delights of straight and level flight on a set heading.
The next step was a timed turn. Now, the rate 1 turn is 3 degrees per second which means all of a sudden I have the overwhelming desire to fly headings that are multiples of 30. No such luck, as my ineptitude meant my first turn was 32 seconds to reach heading. Roll out and wait for the compass, and realise I am nowhere near my desired heading needing a further turn for 7 seconds. Why am I at 3700'? Never mind, maintain heading, climb back up and then we try two complete turns. I manage to get withing 20 degrees with each and personally feel quite chuffed at that. Then into unusual attitudes.
The recovery is the same as for full panel and indeed, the various nose high attitudes don't seem to cause much problem. What does take me aback is how firm you need to be in rolling level when doing the nose down attitudes. In short, depsite my fears, the previous stuff practiced in the lesson seemed to help markedly and it all went quite smoothly.
We returned back towards base using partial panel and were offered an SRA approach. Never one to say no we said yes and just as we did, the suction started to work again. Now I quite like SRA's as all I have to do is what I am told (something my wife would probably want me to do at home
). The controller was very calm and spouted huge amounts of information at me. What did make me chuckle was the request to check my gear was down. So I obliged by looking out to my left to make sure our fixed gear hadn't mysteriously vanished, but no there it was. Following the instructions had us pop out of simulated cloud pointed at the threshold of runway 23 for landing.All told an enjoyable but hard lesson. What it has done is improved my awarness of flying in balance and my confidence in interpreting limited panel. What it has taught me is that in a real suction failure, partial panel situation I will be making as much use of assistance as I can using such things as radar vectors to ILs or SRA approaches.
Cheers
Obs cop
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Agree, SRAs are very useful. Gloucester do a great job despite only having primary radar.
Never done a PAR, though: I imagine they're rather hard work (like flying an ILS but he tells you where the needles would be, basically!)
Tim
Never done a PAR, though: I imagine they're rather hard work (like flying an ILS but he tells you where the needles would be, basically!)
Tim
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tmmorris,
Had a crack at a couple of PAR's in the military. Indeed, my first go was in a Hawk recovering to Boscombe Down.
The reality of my skills was 
To be fair, they are not as hard as an ILS because there is no pilot interpretation (spelling?). Normally they operate on a dedicated frequency with just one talkdown controller and one pilot on the frequency. This means you get an almost constant stream of position and instructions. They give you the headings and tell you if you are high or low on glideslope and whether you are correcting. Compared to an ILS, you just have to fly the numbers accuartely and do as you are told.
By the way, my latter attempts were in a Grob115 and proved a little easier to keep ahead of the aircraft!
Obs cop
Had a crack at a couple of PAR's in the military. Indeed, my first go was in a Hawk recovering to Boscombe Down.
The reality of my skills was To be fair, they are not as hard as an ILS because there is no pilot interpretation (spelling?). Normally they operate on a dedicated frequency with just one talkdown controller and one pilot on the frequency. This means you get an almost constant stream of position and instructions. They give you the headings and tell you if you are high or low on glideslope and whether you are correcting. Compared to an ILS, you just have to fly the numbers accuartely and do as you are told.
By the way, my latter attempts were in a Grob115 and proved a little easier to keep ahead of the aircraft!
Obs cop