IMC rating diary

[Obs cop]

DRJAD,

Ah paying too much attention. I hadn't noticed the slip when proof reading, but then I am but a passing ship to the complexities of the ILS, despite the one down many to go.

It just so happens that my next trip is a nav route involving NDB's but I have just reached the same section in my ATPL notes. I now have a vague inkling of the inner workings, but can anyone help me out as to why some stations need BFO (beat frequency oscillator) selected on to ident and others off. I think it relates to the fact that NON A1A beacons (long range, offshore etc.) interupt the carrier wave to carry the ident and NON A2A don't.

Answers on postcard or this thread please,

My Tuesday flight was cancelled so it's a little wait for the next one, but my head is in the books again.

Obs cop

[IO540]

Last time this one came up, the answer was that NO NDB in the UK needs a BFO.

But if it did, the answer would be with the way the ident is generated. If it is AM (in which case the carrier is constantly transmitted) then a BFO is not needed. A BFO is needed only if there is no modulation and the carrier itself is being turned on/off with the morse code.

It is possible this is a fossil in the ATPL syllabus...

[Pull Back]

When to do the ground exam

Hi fellow lovers of the sky........

Whilst we are on the subject of the IMCR, reading this thread has spurred me into planning to complete (er.. start should I say) it sooner rather than later.

When would you say is the best time to do the IMC ground exam?

I cannot find any reference to it needing to be complete prior to starting the training.

To start with I thought perhaps before starting just to get it out of the way, then I thought that it may be better in the middle after some practical experience, then I thought I'd ask the people in the know!!

Any opinions gratefully received,

PB

[DRJAD]

Just did mine when I turned up at the airfield one day and the weather was too bad for IMC training!

It meant the journey to/from the club was not wasted. I had, though, started the practical training by then.

[Obs cop]

Pull back

You don't need to have done the exam to start the training, however the material in the books is terribly dry.

Further more, going through it from the text alone with no experience just confused heck outa me.

For my thoughts, I feel doing the exam in the middle of the course makes it easier (course and exam) because you can relate the text more readily to what you are doing. Beyond this I am the world's worst studier and knowing for example I will be doing NDB tracking next forces me to learn about the damn things!

In essence, having an idea as to what you are pinning the knowledge to practically, makes it easier to remember and easier to implement. Wait until you read about intercepting NDB QDM's and QDR's.

It is however worth speaking to the school where you intend to do the training as they may have some more suggestions or even a preferred method.

Obs cop

[Pull Back]

Obs cop, DRJAD

Thanks for the suggestion, I think I'll go for the mid course, makes sense to get some practical experience to enforce book 5.

Cheers

Pull Back

PS Obs cop thanks for starting the diary, definate food for thought Keepit going!!

[Obs cop]

Cheers Pullback,

I hope it is enjoyable and informative to read

Obs cop

[Obs cop]

Hour 3

From discussion with my instructor, it would appear the first few hours are aimed at teaching how to fly on instruments, and this progresses from the basic 6 plus tacho, to include how to track VOR and NDB beacons.

Hence hour 3 was basically more of the same. It has been over 10 days since I last flew and boy don't I know it. With a briefing out of the way refreshing the last lesson, the scan and identifying and tracking VOR's we then discussed a basic route involving VOR navigation.

I went out and checked the aircraft as usual and got my substantial frame levered into my trusty C152. The weather was moderate winds with significant cloud, broken at 2300 feet up to about 4000 for the tops. Looking at it from the ground it really didn't look forboding with nice fluffy cumulus floating by but hey, I am a romantic at heart. The plan was to get airbourne and established tracking inbound to the Daventry VOR at 1300 feet before me putting the hood on and off we would jolly well go.

It may be prudent to talk about visual limits now, particularly for takeoff. Reading the Air Pilot's Manual volume 5, the limits dictated for an IMC pilot to take off into cloud are a 600 foot cloud base (aal) and then 1800 metres visibility. My understanding is that the limit for visibility is mandatory and the cloud base is advisable, but I am in no position to argue and today I was in genuine IMC rating world. By that I mean that my skills could not be described as current and so the first few minutes under the hood had me meandering either side of my desired heading and altitude until I got my head round the scan again. This was much as I would imagine it to be for an IMC holder going into cloud with minimal currency. Not necessarily a problem, but definately concentrating the mind somewhat. I then thought about what it would be like to deliberately climb from an airfield into a 600 foot cloud base, without an autopilot. It was a sobering thought and whilst the limits for an IMC rating are quite restrictive over those of an IR, I can now see why and with each lesson expanding my knowledge and skills, I have an ever increasing acknowledgement as to why the weather needs respecting.

In any case, we went soaring off towards Daventry, climbing to 4000 feet as we went. The object of the flight was primarily to revise the instrument flying techniques and to practice VOR tracking. I was really struggling to maintain a heading and I always seemed to be veering off to the left. Scanning the AI... wings level....DI, turning. I then thought what is the turn co-ordinator saying.. in balance but left turn, how odd. A further look at the AI and I could now see that the wings level indication did not match the angle of bank pointer at the top. the difference being 2 or 3 degrees. Now this was really messing with my head as I reverted to the AI for pitch indication and the pointer at the top for bank, ignoring the wings for roll, and cross checking with the turn co-ordinator. Our track took us directly over the Daventry VOR into the zone of confusion (This is the area directly above a VOR where no useable signal is received.) As we went, I did get the chance to remove the hood only to be greeted by a thick bank of white surrounding the aircraft. Only too soon the cloud broke up a little and having increased my real time cloud busting to a grand total of 10 minutes I was back under the hood. I continued through the overhead for a couple of minutes before turning left to intercept the 010 radial. As I rolled out I could see the OBI was full left deflection meaning I was right of track, so I steered 330 for a 40 degree intercept. Nothing....... check the compass against the DI, yep that looks right, still nothing. Unbeknown to me the westerly wind was stronger than I had anticipated and we had gone quite far right of track. Patience is a virtue when you know the instruments are right and as the flag changed from to to from, the needle started to come back in.

Once I had figured out my wind corrected heading the outbound track was uneventful. We turned overhead the Leicester NDB and as we did so another aircraft reported Leicester NDB at 2500. It struck me that the safest way to fly in cloud must surely be to pick and obscure altitude like 3350 feet so that the chances of finding other at the same height are far slimmer.

That brings me onto the next step nicely. We then tracked back towards Daventry before breaking off towards home, self positioning to join the visual circuit at base. My instructor has commented that my standard of basic instrument flying is good and whilst he would normally continue with another hour or so of practice, we should get going on how to find our way around. Returning from our expeditions the objective is also to do some ILS' each time we come back. My next hour is a few days away, but we should be off doing VOR and NDB tracking up towards Staffordshire and back. I'm actually starting to enjoy this now and the feeling of accomplishment reminds me of each of the small hurdles in gaining the PPL in the first place.

Obs cop

[tmmorris]

Did almost exactly that (600ft cloudbase, better viz) yesterday - and I am a rusty-ish IMC holder. My excuse is that I took an instructor with me - it was meant as a refresher, and a very useful one too. Went to Cranfield and did an ILS, then back to Oxford where we planned a visual app. but the weather had failed to improve so it was an NDB app. down to minimums. All very interesting. First 10 minutes I was cr@p, but I got better - ILS went very well indeed, and I flew it on instruments down to 200ft which was very reassuring (we were actually visual at 700ft). NDB app. got interesting when I thought 189 degs was 9 degs right of the 'E' marking on the DI (instructor prodded me gently in the ribs and pointed out that this might not be correct...). Altogether a useful reminder of how easily these things can fade away.

Tim

[Obs cop]

Tim,

Just a little question for my benefit. How much would you say you have actually used your IMC rating in the last year? Oh also, what do you think is a reasonable minimum to maintain some sort of currency?

Cheers

Obs cop

[tmmorris]

Hmmmmm......

I fly 30-40 hours per year total, so I'm quite marginal in terms of currency. Actually used the IMC rating because I had to: never. Flown in actual IMC because I could (including VMC on top): 3 or 4 times. Flown IAPs for practice: 3 or 4 times.

I regard that as not quite enough for currency, hence my flight on Friday. I struck lucky with the weather: I'd expected to be on foggles for the trip. That said, I found I wasn't as bad as I'd expected.

I, personally, enjoy IF. I'm not sure that many people do, but I like the intellectual challenge. I keep my hand in with IAP profiles and situational awareness by flying procedures on Flight Sim - the default 172 is great for NDBs, for example, as long as you put realistic weather in, as (like real aircraft) it doesn't have an RMI. And you can look at the GPS or the 'flight analysis' screen (even better, as it's animated) to watch your horizontal & vertical profile. The GPS does a good job of painting your holding patterns on its screen, too, so you can laugh at your entries...

But I'll definitely be renewing the IMC next year. After all, my SEP renewal comes up anyway so I might as well take the IMCR test which will count for both.

Flying now from an RAF club, though, which requires 42-day currency for IF, i.e. a flight 'using the privileges of the rating' within the previous 42 days to qualify for flight in IMC. Not sure how they will define that, though: SVFR in 9500m visibility would do, after all...

Tim

[Obs cop]

Hour 4

The only new thing today was NDB tracking. Now a few had mentioned that this would be "interesting" and indeed they are correct.

We tracked from the Daventry VOR out towards Lichfield NDB and the line on the chart showed we should be tracking in on the 330 QDM. A quick ident of the beacon and away we went. However, it rapidly became apparent how outdated NDB's are. Their expected accuracies are +/- 6 degreeswhich over a 50 mile leg works out at 5 miles, assuming that you have set the DI accurately and fly the headings exactly. Allowing for me setting the DI out by one or two degrees and then my inexact instrument skills we had an area of about +/- 10 degrees from the QDM, about 8 miles either side of track! Now a quick glance at the controlled airspace either side of Birmingham and East Midlands rapidly seems to become very tight and it wasn't long until my instructor asked me to track a QDM of 320 degrees to keep clear of controlled airspace.

I have to say the mental arithmetic of working out the bearings of the beacon and subsequent headings really took me unawares. Although when we turned overhead Lichfield the return QDR seemed much easier to follow (and accurate I might add) I'm wondering if anyone had any good tips for NDB tracking. My aircraft is quite basic and only has a DI and seperate ADF showing relative bearing (although the compass card under the ADF needle can be spun round).

Any of you IR/IMC boffins give us a clue here?

In the mean time, this was the second flight where I didn't get a chance to try for an instrument approach - spoiled by the incoming 737 For me they have been the most enlightening part of the course and I can't wait to do more.

Tim,

What sort of things did you cover in your refresher? And whilst I'm at it, do the flightsim navaids have real world attributes ie. ranges and accuracies?

Cheers

Obs cop

[tmmorris]

Basically a whole IFR flight except that Oxford didn't have an IFR departure slot, so we went VFR at 1000ft to the ATZ boundary, then climbed direct to the WCO NDB and got a radar service from Benson, then direct to the CFD VOR, entered the hold at the CIT NDB, flew a couple of holds, then the ILS (which is procedural i.e. no radar, so it's effectively an NDB approach until you go inbound, when you pick up the ILS); then missed approach, then back to Oxford via WCO for the Oxford NDB 19 approach. We didn't, though, do the unusual attitude recovery &c. which will need to be revised before I have the test next year.

Flight sim is a bit too accurate, really - it doesn't seem to model the crappiness of NDBs at all well, unfortunately, even with realism on full. I guess the dedicated (and expensive) IFR training stuff like On Top is better - no doubt someone on here will come along and tell us in a minute!

Tim

[Obs cop]

tmmorris,

Oh me god, I'm a long way off that yet, or at least that's how it feels. Mind you, the next hour is this Wednesday so I'd best keep building those blocks.

Daft question, but hey....
For an IFR departure slot, do you need a paper flightplan filed, or can you just call up for an IFR departure?


Guys,

can you give me some feedback as other than my updates I've got little to work with here?

It's not clear if what I am writing is good, bad, or even ugly, but the initial peak of interest has faded away somewhat and I am questioning the value in keeping up my efforts.

Cheers

Obs cop

[murphy1901]

Please keep the diary going Obs cop.

I'm reading but not posting any comments due to lack of knowledge!

Hoping to start my IMC this year and your write-ups are giving a great insight on what to expect.

[IO540]

OC

NDBs can play games with you; they are affected by terrain, water, weather. They are also damn hard to track when the ADF is mounted 3 feet away from the DI (which is often the case in training planes) which makes transposing the ADF reading onto the DI very difficult An RMI is the great solution for this, at about £3000+ but that just makes it all the more obvious how inaccurate the ADF can be.

For an IFR departure you don't need an ICAO flight plan; you just ask for it. The UK is unique in this I think; elsewhere it would probably mean an airways departure (SID) with a corresponding flight plan.

In practice, if the conditions aren't obviously atrocious, a lot of people depart "VFR" even if they enter IMC soon afterwards. The transition between VFR and IFR is something you can do as you wish - again the UK is very good in this respect.

I reckon 20-30 hours (ON TYPE) in IMC or poor VMC are needed to keep current enough to be able to fly any IAP as needed. Which means perhaps 50-100 hours a year total time.

[Aussie Andy]

OBS Cop - I too am lurking and reading, enjoying your posts very much as my IMC lessons start in two weeks now. I appreciate the time you are taking to type these up, and the Q&A which follows is also helpful. I was even reading this while on hols in the US via my BLackberry (but replying that way is too painful!)

Cheers mate!

Andy

[tmmorris]

Agree, I'd be much better if I could manage the hours IO540 suggests.

As he said, an IFR departure (outside CAS) only requires you to book one with ATC. Unfortunately at Oxford they are usually booked up for tests &c. Very irritating when they then don't use the slots they've booked and you sit there waiting for your slot watching nothing taxying out...

Advantage of an IFR departure, though, is that if you have nice ATC they will coordinate with your first en-route frequency, and if they have no radar will arrange to hand you over to a LARS provider or similar PDQ after departure. This is great when you are busy with the climb &c. as all you have to do is follow the departure procedure and do as you are told, and it's calculated to give you terrain clearance and procedural separation until you get onto radar. Several times safer than scud-running to the ATZ boundary and then punching into IMC below MSA - there's a dodgy minute or so when you are IMC below MSA and not on a standard procedure.

Tim

[Obs cop]

Cheers guys for the comments, I was beginning to think I was alone in here

IO540, Now I am probably in a similar boat to several others here in that I won't be doing 100 hours a year including 20 to 30 IMC. However, I expect to fly about 50 hours per year total and am thinking I will be doing about 10 to 15 of those per year IMC. In an ideal world I would obviously do more but until then... is this too few? I want the rating to help me, and I am very aware of the need to maintain the skills, but am I realistic that I can maintain my skills with this level? At the moment, I am looking at the IMC rating as a help me out for sh1tty weather not an IR on the cheap.

Just out of interest, I've got the bug now (instrument flying ain't exhilerating but it sure is challenging and satisfying), does anyone know how much would it cost to do an FAA/IR in the UK? Family commitments mean I can't go abroad

Tim, I concur completely, below MSA and in IMC is not my place to be.

Thanks again all, hopefully flying again tomorrow

Obs cop

[IO540]

I don't think anybody can be precise about the # of hrs required for currency amd I didn't intend it to sound that way.

One thing is what one is flying, how well equipped it is and how much of the stuff works. With most people having to make do with very old planes, it is always controversial to suggest that a decent plane makes it easier, but it does! But a decent IFR plane is likely to cost upwards of £100k, and that is a 10 year old specimen. A new one is say £250k. But on something like that you may need only half the currency. And I am not referring to flying the ILS with the autopilot (which does make it awfully easy).

It comes down to cockpit workload. In training this is high and intentionally so. In reality almost everybody who flies IFR for real has a nice big GPS with the route programmed into it. One would track VOR/DME/NDB, as available, concurrently, to eliminate most gross errors and to have less work if something packed up. This way your workload is far less than you've ever seen in training.

Holds are flown very rarely in reality, and when they are they don't need to be perfect because the protected area is big enough for a 747!

Another one is autopilot. Only a masochist likes flying in IMC for hours - all it achieves is that you arrives tired for the stuff which really needs your brain. If you have an AP, you use it. I fly manually the last 20-30 miles but occassionally I do an ILS with the autopilot too.

I am starting on my FAA PPL/IR now and allowing for the max credit from the IMC Rating training one might need another 20 hrs or so, at say £50/hr plus whatever the plane costs to hire. So that makes it say £3000. A standalone FAA PPL is going to cost some £1.5k.

Regarding IFR departures, it isn't necessarily the case that the ATC actually does anything else beyond a) reading you your IFR clearance and b) making a slightly greater effort than usual to ensure there isn't somebody in the way. Certainly I've had IFR departures with no onwards contact arranged. However if departing into real muck I've generally had the next contact sorted - but then if the weather is bad enough for genuine IFR the radio will be pretty quiet anyway, and one can get RIS from big airports...

Finally, one can't be above the MSA when taking off or landing