Reckess or Nervous

[MichaelJP59]

then we would fly out to sea, and then descend, hoping to come out the bottom layer before we hit water

I would not recommend this, even to an IR rated pilot unless you have a radalt and radar. Even with these items, the MSA is 1500'. If there is any hint of fog, you will not see the surface until maybe 80 feet and even then it will not be easy to see the water.

With no other options and complete cloud cover what would you do though? Surely it's better to descend to the sea which is at least a roughly predictable height rather than chancing it over land?

- Michael

[IO540]

Legalities aside, in an emergency and assuming the pilot has the ability to do this, the safest should be a radar vectored ILS into an airfield with no high ground around it. The next option would be a descent over the sea (checking one's position using TWO independent methods, e.g. GPS and VOR/DME beforehand) and I would do that down to 500ft QNH, for a straight in visual approach into a runway close to the coast. The worst has got to be an NDB IAP into some place with hills, especially knowing how bad an ADF will be with bad weather about.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

With no other options and complete cloud cover what would you do though?

In the absence of radio failure, the other option is talk to someone. Call Mayday on 121.5. Tell them that you've screwed up, that you're in the ...., that you'd like some help getting down alive. Worry about the paperwork later. Surely to goodness do this before trying to let down in cloud over the sea or land without the appropriate qualifications!!

[mad_jock]

Sounds like you got caught by east coast Haar.

Sounds like you did completly the right thing and well done for posting letting others learn from your experence.

As note its always worth while giving your destination airport a ring up in jockland. Most have local wx conditions which the locals know about but unfortunatly the met office dosn't seem to pick up on. The haar is famous for sitting off shore for hours then when the tide changes it comes belting in sometimes fast enough to catch people in the circuit. Also because of the nature of the beast it can remove alot of alternates at once ie all the east coast airfields down to nearly Newcastle. And when it does come in it dosn't matter if you have a IMC or IR the RVR's will be that low that fully kitted airliners will be struggling to get in.

Don't let it put you off though. Just have a route backup. If the east coast is looking dodgy the west is usually clear prestwick is always a good bet as a get out.

The subject of decending over water must admit i have done this. But its pretty dodgy even if you know the area and have all the kit and there are some oil rigs at nearly 500ft. And if you have been caught by the haar it ain't going to do you any good at all.

Best thing is a call to D&D and let them do the hard work while you keep the machine safe.

MJ

[boomerangben]

Firstly, good initial post. Sounds like a text book account.

THere is a story of a GA pilot getting caught out in poor weather, called D&D who scrambled a SAR helicopter. The plane was asked to formate on the Seaking which guided the a/c onto the runway - interesting first ILS no doubt, but a happy ending.

IMHO to descend for a cloud break over the sea would be the last option, ie when there was only fuel enough to get down and get to the nearest airfield.

[BRL]

A couple of weeks ago, I heard a D reg cessna calling Shoreham from mid channel. He was not far from Seaford and kept calling out but, he was that low, Shoreham couldn't hear him. His messages were eventually relayed by a helicopter and he revealed he was down to 300 ft and heading towards the coast. There was at the time quite a bit of sea-mist in the channel but hardly any at all inland. He made it and climbed up to 1600 shortly after crossing inland where it was clear. I wonder exactly how low he would have gone before doing something about it.

[v6g]

Here's an excellent article on the perils of VFR flight into IMC, from a Canadian perspective, but the same factors come into play.

http://www.jalbrecht.ca

[Flock1]

I agree with the last post, the article suggested is excellent. It really makes the old blood flow! Scary.

[dublinpilot]

Experiences like this help you learn where your personal limits are.

In the end you had a plan A, and a plan B. You were no longer sure of making plan A, so you switched to plan B. That's good work. Well done for making the decision.

Only thing I would add it the above is to use the services you have available to you.

I once had a flight where I had to fly around some bad weather. My take departure point had good weather, and my destination had a good taf & metar, but there was some cloud in between. I would up having to go further around it than I had planned, and I was starting to wonder if the conditions at my destination had changed too. I was receiving a Flight Information Service at the time. I decided to get some information from it! I asked the ATC'er for the latest METAR at my destination, and it was even better than before take off! It put my mind at ease, and everything was fine at my destination.

Funny, up to that, I'd always thought of ATC as someone I was working to help and fit in with, and since, I've thought of them as being there to help me out!

Anyway, don't be afraid to ask for some information if you are receiving a service.

dp

[Whirlybird]

And as others have said, don't be afraid to talk to D & D. It's what they're there for!