Using the Uk IMC rating in N reg aircraft
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Using the Uk IMC rating in N reg aircraft
Hi all..
I have a UK PPL and IMC rating , and am going to eventually take the FAAIR..
I am buying an 'N ' reg aircraft , so the FAAIR will be vaild in the UK ..
Question...
Until I actually GET the FAAIR , am I legally allowed to exercise the priviledges of my IMC rating , if I am doing it in an N reg aircraft?
any replies much appreciated
Bill Padley
London
I have a UK PPL and IMC rating , and am going to eventually take the FAAIR..
I am buying an 'N ' reg aircraft , so the FAAIR will be vaild in the UK ..
Question...
Until I actually GET the FAAIR , am I legally allowed to exercise the priviledges of my IMC rating , if I am doing it in an N reg aircraft?
any replies much appreciated
Bill Padley
London
It depends how you square up:
61.3(a) (a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in command ... of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that person—
(1) Has a valid pilot certificate or special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part ... However, when the aircraft is operated within a foreign country, a current pilot license issued by the country in which the aircraft is operated may be used; and
with
(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:
(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;
(assuming that the FAA has any business regulating what a UK citizen does within the UK, but that's another debate
)
What were we saying about the FAA's drafting skills in another thread?
61.3(a) (a) Pilot certificate. A person may not act as pilot in command ... of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless that person—
(1) Has a valid pilot certificate or special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part ... However, when the aircraft is operated within a foreign country, a current pilot license issued by the country in which the aircraft is operated may be used; and
with
(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:
(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;
(assuming that the FAA has any business regulating what a UK citizen does within the UK, but that's another debate
)What were we saying about the FAA's drafting skills in another thread?
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Hmm
"
1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown; "
Surely an IMC rating is one such instrument rating then , or am I missing something :-)
Given that the holder has
a) A Uk licence and
b) A Uk issued IR of sorts ( IMC)
then the conditions are met?
cheers for any help !
Bill Padley
London
"
1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown; "
Surely an IMC rating is one such instrument rating then , or am I missing something :-)
Given that the holder has
a) A Uk licence and
b) A Uk issued IR of sorts ( IMC)
then the conditions are met?
cheers for any help !
Bill Padley
London
So you think an IMC-rating is an instrument rating for the purpose of the FARs? Why not go one step further and just interpret it as an instrument rating for the purposes of the ANO?
Seriously, an instrument rating is an ICAO-standard rating, which has an equivalent for every "foreign country". An IMC rating is not recognised by ICAO as an instrument rating. If it were, you'd be permitted to use it anywhere.
Seriously, an instrument rating is an ICAO-standard rating, which has an equivalent for every "foreign country". An IMC rating is not recognised by ICAO as an instrument rating. If it were, you'd be permitted to use it anywhere.
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Fair enough ....
worth a try <VBG>
So basically with my N reg aircraft , I need to go for the Full FAA IR (which I was going to do anyway) before flying in IMC in the UK ...
cheers for that ....helps a lot!
now back to Martha King ...LOLOL
Bill Padley
London
worth a try <VBG>
So basically with my N reg aircraft , I need to go for the Full FAA IR (which I was going to do anyway) before flying in IMC in the UK ...
cheers for that ....helps a lot!
now back to Martha King ...LOLOL
Bill Padley
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Experience
Don't forget that all your IMC training & subsequent Instument time counts towards the Aeronautical Experience requirments for FAA IR (40 hrs Instrument time of which 15 is with an Instrument Instructor)
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Lurcher..
yup thats a good thing!...I actually ended up with 20 hrs simulated instrument in Florida doing my IMC, so that will come in very useful..though I will be fully utilising an instructor for extra hours, just to get to the higher standards of the FAA IR, and to build instrument hours/experience on type (Cirrus SR22) ..
cheers
Bill P
yup thats a good thing!...I actually ended up with 20 hrs simulated instrument in Florida doing my IMC, so that will come in very useful..though I will be fully utilising an instructor for extra hours, just to get to the higher standards of the FAA IR, and to build instrument hours/experience on type (Cirrus SR22) ..
cheers
Bill P
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This is a recent reply from CAA to this question:
"You must ask the FAA. It is for the State of Registry to decide if
[and if so to what extent] aircraft registered in that State can be flown by pilots licensed elsewhere."
Personally, I think the IMCR is worthless in an N-reg.
Go for the FAA IR.
"You must ask the FAA. It is for the State of Registry to decide if
[and if so to what extent] aircraft registered in that State can be flown by pilots licensed elsewhere."
Personally, I think the IMCR is worthless in an N-reg.
Go for the FAA IR.
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IO540
I agree wholeheartedly...I will be doing the FAAIR asap...
Depends how much more I can take of Martha Kings incessant chuckling and ever changing hairstyles .... LOLOL
Bill P
I agree wholeheartedly...I will be doing the FAAIR asap...
Depends how much more I can take of Martha Kings incessant chuckling and ever changing hairstyles .... LOLOL
Bill P
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Worthy of note is the observation that Flight under IFR in an N-reg aircraft requires an instrument rating.
Flight at night in the UK is (substantially) under IFR. Therefore, no night flight in an N without a valid IR.
Unpalatable, but without question the FAA's viewpoint - and one supported by the CAA.
2D
Flight at night in the UK is (substantially) under IFR. Therefore, no night flight in an N without a valid IR.
Unpalatable, but without question the FAA's viewpoint - and one supported by the CAA.
2D
Last edited by 2Donkeys; 28th Jul 2004 at 21:01.
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2 Donks
Is that true in all cases?
I hold a CAA PPL/NR and a FAA conversion, which I understand allows me to use only the privileges of the issuing state of the base licence.
I've always understood that to mean that I can fly IFR in VMC at night, but not VFR on top or VFR at night.
Its an academic question, since I have no intention to fly an N rge in the UK, but I would be interested in your view.
Is that true in all cases?
I hold a CAA PPL/NR and a FAA conversion, which I understand allows me to use only the privileges of the issuing state of the base licence.
I've always understood that to mean that I can fly IFR in VMC at night, but not VFR on top or VFR at night.
Its an academic question, since I have no intention to fly an N rge in the UK, but I would be interested in your view.
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The views that have already been expressed on this forum reflect my understanding of the position (in particular IO540's comments).
The CAA are quite clear on this subject, and as IO540 indicates, they will confirm that the governing legislation for the use of an N-reg aircraft are the FARs- even in UK airspace.
In the case of somebody holding an FAA licence based on their UK licence, the right to fly at night is conferred if the underlying licence contains a night qualification.
For flying in the US, (or indeed in France) in an N-reg all would therefore be fine. Both of these countries recognise Night VFR. In the UK though, our rather bizarre view of night flight as being IFR (ignoring SVFR in CTRs for a moment) means that you fall foul of the FAR that prohibits flight under IFR without an IR.
Note that the rules quite specifically prohibit flight under IFR (the rules) as opposed to flight in IMC.
My interpretation would therefore be that anomalous though it is, flight in an N reg is illegal in the UK at night (excluding once again the SVFR case) unless you hold a valid IR.
2D
The CAA are quite clear on this subject, and as IO540 indicates, they will confirm that the governing legislation for the use of an N-reg aircraft are the FARs- even in UK airspace.
In the case of somebody holding an FAA licence based on their UK licence, the right to fly at night is conferred if the underlying licence contains a night qualification.
For flying in the US, (or indeed in France) in an N-reg all would therefore be fine. Both of these countries recognise Night VFR. In the UK though, our rather bizarre view of night flight as being IFR (ignoring SVFR in CTRs for a moment) means that you fall foul of the FAR that prohibits flight under IFR without an IR.
Note that the rules quite specifically prohibit flight under IFR (the rules) as opposed to flight in IMC.
My interpretation would therefore be that anomalous though it is, flight in an N reg is illegal in the UK at night (excluding once again the SVFR case) unless you hold a valid IR.
2D
Last edited by 2Donkeys; 29th Jul 2004 at 06:35.
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Hi 2d,
Flight in an N reg is illegal in the UK? I believe you may have meant flight *at night* is illegal... blah blah blah...
Sorry to be pedantic! LOL 
(We all knew what you meant without me having to point it out though).
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Flight in an N reg is illegal in the UK? I believe you may have meant flight *at night* is illegal... blah blah blah...
Sorry to be pedantic! LOL
(We all knew what you meant without me having to point it out though).
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
The CAA are quite clear on this subject, and as IO540 indicates, they will confirm that the governing legislation for the use of an N-reg aircraft are the FARs- even in UK airspace.