I shall divorce her.....
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As somebody currently involved as a pilot for an aerial survey company (no, we don't do the speculative stuff, knocking on doors - not that kind of outfit), the debate sparked off by Monocock's posting is interesting to me.
I know the incident well, and it is one that I have firmly at the forefront of my mind every time we have a low-level tasking to complete, particularly as our local area of ops is a highly active fast jet area.
Any pilot trying to complete an aerial survey/photographic assignment whilst acting as sole pilot (in this incident I don't believe that was the case) needs his/her head examined. Surveys are time consuming and require considerably more prep than just sticking a digi-camera out the window and snapping away occasionally as you bimble along. I'm inclined to agree with TonyR that this latter activity isn't spectacularly dangerous, but you can hardly refer to it as aerial surveying.
You cannot safely (please note the word safely) fly an aircraft, especially at low level (not 2000' or 3000' plus) in an active area of military low-level ops whilst you are farting about with a camera, setting up repeated shots of the target, without the slightest idea of what is going on about you.
Contrary to some of the comments here, it is perfectly possible to see fast moving, low-level traffic at a distance which would allow evasive action to take place, although in a C150 you won't evade very far away. The key is a disciplined lookout, proper monitoring of the R/T and the receipt of a FIS as a minimum from an ATC unit. Our aircraft is transponder equipped, and we always take a service from a radar-equipped unit if at all possible. Most of the military guys are professional enough that they have the sense and courtesy to call civvy units to let them know if they will be blasting by, and ATC always let us know if they have traffic headed our way, particularly if it is a mil unit we are using.
Your safety is enhanced by knowing exactly where you are, and making sure that everybody else does too. At the first sign of traffic heading your way, make sure you're looking the right way (knock off the survey too) and give out a precise position report so the other guy can do the same.
Yes it is a dangerous environment, so when you're done, get out. Pilots who ignore the dangers and do nothing to protect themselves are just asking for trouble. The industry has a lot of cowboys and unfortunately it tars all of us with the same brush.
I know the incident well, and it is one that I have firmly at the forefront of my mind every time we have a low-level tasking to complete, particularly as our local area of ops is a highly active fast jet area.
Any pilot trying to complete an aerial survey/photographic assignment whilst acting as sole pilot (in this incident I don't believe that was the case) needs his/her head examined. Surveys are time consuming and require considerably more prep than just sticking a digi-camera out the window and snapping away occasionally as you bimble along. I'm inclined to agree with TonyR that this latter activity isn't spectacularly dangerous, but you can hardly refer to it as aerial surveying.
You cannot safely (please note the word safely) fly an aircraft, especially at low level (not 2000' or 3000' plus) in an active area of military low-level ops whilst you are farting about with a camera, setting up repeated shots of the target, without the slightest idea of what is going on about you.
Contrary to some of the comments here, it is perfectly possible to see fast moving, low-level traffic at a distance which would allow evasive action to take place, although in a C150 you won't evade very far away. The key is a disciplined lookout, proper monitoring of the R/T and the receipt of a FIS as a minimum from an ATC unit. Our aircraft is transponder equipped, and we always take a service from a radar-equipped unit if at all possible. Most of the military guys are professional enough that they have the sense and courtesy to call civvy units to let them know if they will be blasting by, and ATC always let us know if they have traffic headed our way, particularly if it is a mil unit we are using.
Your safety is enhanced by knowing exactly where you are, and making sure that everybody else does too. At the first sign of traffic heading your way, make sure you're looking the right way (knock off the survey too) and give out a precise position report so the other guy can do the same.
Yes it is a dangerous environment, so when you're done, get out. Pilots who ignore the dangers and do nothing to protect themselves are just asking for trouble. The industry has a lot of cowboys and unfortunately it tars all of us with the same brush.
Which category do you think I am in then? From your profile and username you don't appear to be a pilot so are you commenting from personal experience or something you read in a book?
Am I a pilot?
In 1982 a really sweet guy popped round and told a wife that he wanted to show how nice the house looks from the air so he took a photo. The wife told him that her son was interested in flying, so, unrequested, when he delivered the photo he dropped in a copy of the Pilot Yearbook.
And thus it turned out that the £20 for the photo was the thin end of a very expensive wedge. So if you feel that you'd rather not be sharing the skies with a mere mortal that doesn't think he can reliably spot a fast jet approaching at 450 kt in time to do something about it, blame the really sweet guy and the generosity of a husband who reacted differently from Monocock.
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Guys, PLEASE..This has gone well off now. From the first post about aerial photography it has now reduced to people having a pop at each other. Continue it via PM's guys, willy waving doesn't really fit into this thread.
Mono, like above, I also heard about your incident yesterday. Good to hear your down in one piece.
Mono, like above, I also heard about your incident yesterday. Good to hear your down in one piece.
Avoid imitations
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My apologies. I have deleted my posts
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'****e Hawk' is a derogatory and undeserved name for the (Black) Kite. Kites are some of the most amazing flyers in the bird world. In contrast to many birds of prey, they are fully aerobatic. To see a Kite in action, with wings going in different directions, forked tail twisted through 90 degree as it performs a stall turn with a roll off the top, prior to diving down to a pick up food, is a privilege.
Drive up the M40 if you want to see a Red Kite, but we did see one over Wycombe/ Booker once.
Drive up the M40 if you want to see a Red Kite, but we did see one over Wycombe/ Booker once.
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Aerial photography has other hazards.
A friend of mine rented a Cessna to a photographer whose camera lens fell off, going through the roof of a house!
'Scuse me, ma'am, would you like to buy this photo (its a bit blurred)? And could I have my lens back?
A friend of mine rented a Cessna to a photographer whose camera lens fell off, going through the roof of a house!
'Scuse me, ma'am, would you like to buy this photo (its a bit blurred)? And could I have my lens back?
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Monocock - just wanted to say well done to you for coming through your EFATO unscathed. Doing the drills while training for my Skill Test was hard enough, but having it happen for real... sheesh, that's rather worrying... Hope the aeroplane's fixable, but just relieved to hear you're in one piece.
Witchdoctor - this thread seems to have been quite an emotive one. Thanks for putting the aerial surveyors point across in such an informative and thought out way. If nothing else, it's made me think a bit harder about how accurate I should make my position reporting when I ask for an FIS; you never know who or what else is lurking out there...
Witchdoctor - this thread seems to have been quite an emotive one. Thanks for putting the aerial surveyors point across in such an informative and thought out way. If nothing else, it's made me think a bit harder about how accurate I should make my position reporting when I ask for an FIS; you never know who or what else is lurking out there...
With MY reputation?
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Sorry to sound ignorant, have I missed something? I've just read through this thread and it jumps from Aerial Photography to what I presume was a near-miss with a Tornado? Can anyone enlighten me? Ta...
PHX
PHX
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Beau Man
First time anybody has classed my random mutterings as informative and well thought out. I think I shall go for a lie down.
Phoenix Son
The link is that the fatal collision between the Tornado and a Cessna is that the Cessna was thought to have been conducting a low level photography detail at the time.
First time anybody has classed my random mutterings as informative and well thought out. I think I shall go for a lie down.
Phoenix Son
The link is that the fatal collision between the Tornado and a Cessna is that the Cessna was thought to have been conducting a low level photography detail at the time.
Avoid imitations
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Mono,
My username could be either. I am a little shy
.
I lived and worked for a while in the far east and we had Black-Eared Kites (****e Hawks, as Kolibear says) living on our roof. I also used to display fly a semi-aerobatic heli, some of the manoeuvres the Hawks did seemed similiar to what the heli could do. I later went to a job where we hovered around looking for a certain "class" of person, so the name ShyTorque, which is a slightly less rude version for general use, came into being.
My username could be either. I am a little shy
.I lived and worked for a while in the far east and we had Black-Eared Kites (****e Hawks, as Kolibear says) living on our roof. I also used to display fly a semi-aerobatic heli, some of the manoeuvres the Hawks did seemed similiar to what the heli could do. I later went to a job where we hovered around looking for a certain "class" of person, so the name ShyTorque, which is a slightly less rude version for general use, came into being.
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If you are flying low you should be doing nothing but looking out of the window, and occasionally glancing at the engine instruments and DI if necessary. It's a dangerous environment, especially in a low-level corridor.
Here is a link to a report of a rather notorious mid-air collision that occured when a highway traffic reporter/pilot wasn't watching where he was going (it's a miracle that no one was injured).
Although I am usually against attempts to legislate safety by introducing all sorts of rules and restrictions, I don't understand why it is legal for someone to simultaneously fly an aircraft and spot road traffic and report on it and broadcast advertisements (which obviously involves reading from a prepared text). Clearly, it's just an accident waiting to happen.
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Hmm!!!
As a single crew aerial photographer, yes you guessed who i work for it doesnt take a rocket scientist, a few points about some of the comments made:
1. All crews are extremely professional.
2. Is it any more dangerous than flying jump planes and throwing live humans out.
3. The CAA are very aware of our work and have no problem with it.
4. yes we are pilots trying to get to the airlines.
5. any company allowing single crew with less than a thousand hours is irresponsible.
6. Confusion over the incident, jag and c150 both killed neither illegally operating.
7. Its 500ft horizontally and vertically outside towns. ( this means if i so desired i could take a picture at 200ft as long as i were no where near person or vessal by 500ft)
HOWEVER WE WOULD NOT DO THIS AS THAT WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE!!!
8. i would rather fly with a guy with 2000 hours low level exp than a 250hr guy who is lucky enough to get a airline job( reasons: better situational awareness, handling skills, EXPERIENCE)
9. Jets dont fly at 2000/3000 ft and miss airliners or other light a/c wake up boys. Flying has its dangers no matter what type, if you dont like it, dont do it!
And Finally i could name at least 20 capts for major airlines who have done this job as a means of career progression. With 250 hours and a nice shinny IR your only qualified to start learning anyone who believes otherwise is either very arrogant or a fool ( I was there once and have learnt more about flying, airmanship in this job than i did in training).
If you dont actually do this kind of work you have no idea whats involved and are unqualified to blanket criticise the industry.
p.s many of aerial survey companies today ( not all) originated from one major company back in the eighties.
regards
As a single crew aerial photographer, yes you guessed who i work for it doesnt take a rocket scientist, a few points about some of the comments made:
1. All crews are extremely professional.
2. Is it any more dangerous than flying jump planes and throwing live humans out.
3. The CAA are very aware of our work and have no problem with it.
4. yes we are pilots trying to get to the airlines.
5. any company allowing single crew with less than a thousand hours is irresponsible.
6. Confusion over the incident, jag and c150 both killed neither illegally operating.
7. Its 500ft horizontally and vertically outside towns. ( this means if i so desired i could take a picture at 200ft as long as i were no where near person or vessal by 500ft)
HOWEVER WE WOULD NOT DO THIS AS THAT WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE!!!
8. i would rather fly with a guy with 2000 hours low level exp than a 250hr guy who is lucky enough to get a airline job( reasons: better situational awareness, handling skills, EXPERIENCE)
9. Jets dont fly at 2000/3000 ft and miss airliners or other light a/c wake up boys. Flying has its dangers no matter what type, if you dont like it, dont do it!
And Finally i could name at least 20 capts for major airlines who have done this job as a means of career progression. With 250 hours and a nice shinny IR your only qualified to start learning anyone who believes otherwise is either very arrogant or a fool ( I was there once and have learnt more about flying, airmanship in this job than i did in training).
If you dont actually do this kind of work you have no idea whats involved and are unqualified to blanket criticise the industry.
p.s many of aerial survey companies today ( not all) originated from one major company back in the eighties.
regards