Suggestion for 150kts+ single please
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Bird Strike,
I only came in on this as you mentioned Lancair, and seemed prepared to consider a kit a/c. Glasairs are a two seat very fast retractable, coming out a bit before the Lancair. Mine has the simplest engine, many are with 180hp or 200hp, and the norm for the Glasair III is 300hp IO-540. A few III's have 400+ SHP turbo props if you really want to go exotic, and 250 kts cruise.
Even my early one has a 225 kts vne (260mph).
There are about a 1000 flying, most in the US, but there are 18 on the UK register, and I know there are some in Oz.
I bought an immaculately completed one 13 years ago, and have been absolutely delighted with it, and maintenance costs have been trivial.
Mnfrs site is www.newglasair.com, and you can work your way through to a photo album. Or do a google search on 'glasair' and get lots more.
If you want a 4 seat manufactured a/c, I would unhestitatingly go Mooney. I bought one 30 years ago, and was looking for another when I saw the Glasair for sale!
Mike.
I only came in on this as you mentioned Lancair, and seemed prepared to consider a kit a/c. Glasairs are a two seat very fast retractable, coming out a bit before the Lancair. Mine has the simplest engine, many are with 180hp or 200hp, and the norm for the Glasair III is 300hp IO-540. A few III's have 400+ SHP turbo props if you really want to go exotic, and 250 kts cruise.
Even my early one has a 225 kts vne (260mph).
There are about a 1000 flying, most in the US, but there are 18 on the UK register, and I know there are some in Oz.
I bought an immaculately completed one 13 years ago, and have been absolutely delighted with it, and maintenance costs have been trivial.
Mnfrs site is www.newglasair.com, and you can work your way through to a photo album. Or do a google search on 'glasair' and get lots more.
If you want a 4 seat manufactured a/c, I would unhestitatingly go Mooney. I bought one 30 years ago, and was looking for another when I saw the Glasair for sale!
Mike.
What sort of load, range & runway performance do you want, Birdy? And are prepared to pay for?
Sticking to manufacturered types since I know little about homebuilts you have quite range. I tend to divide it into smaller & larger piston singles (in terms of cost or load lift ability
Smaller:
Things like
Mooney eg 201. Advantage is the reduced 2nd hand price & fuel consumption. There are also the newer models but then there's the extra purchase cost. Disadvantage is the more limited rough field ability, room & load lift compared to:
C182 RG. Roomy, good load lift & rough/short field. One of the few with little or no trade off between filling seats & flying for range. Bit more fuel burn & also can be expensive to buy due demand. Simple undercarriage mechanism which is good too. You might not like the heavier control feel though.
Piper. Can't think of an equivalent, off hand. The PA28R series are too slow. Possibly a Comanche but they're comparitely old.
Beech 33 Bonanza. Competing class to the C182RG. More expensive to maintain I suspect. The A36 I once operated always seemed to cost more than a C210. Nice to fly though. Dislike the Beech panel layout prior to the twin column redesign. Not sure if that ever happened to the 33 series.
Larger:
C210. Also a heavier control feel. Lots of room. Some trade off between filling all seats or the tanks. Similar other advantages to the C182RG. Higher fuel burn.
A36 Bonanza: Competes with the C210. Similar comparison to the C210 as the 33 model to the C182RG. Big disadvantage is a lack of baggage space with all seats filled ie virtually non-existant. Rear double door is a decided advantage.
PA32R Lance/Saratoga. Slower end of the scale. May not quite meet your 150kt spec. depending on load etc. More room than the other two - even a 7th seat option available. Very good baggage room with both a front & rear locker. Makes W&B easy! Also a rear door advantage.
Sticking to manufacturered types since I know little about homebuilts you have quite range. I tend to divide it into smaller & larger piston singles (in terms of cost or load lift ability
Smaller:
Things like
Mooney eg 201. Advantage is the reduced 2nd hand price & fuel consumption. There are also the newer models but then there's the extra purchase cost. Disadvantage is the more limited rough field ability, room & load lift compared to:
C182 RG. Roomy, good load lift & rough/short field. One of the few with little or no trade off between filling seats & flying for range. Bit more fuel burn & also can be expensive to buy due demand. Simple undercarriage mechanism which is good too. You might not like the heavier control feel though.
Piper. Can't think of an equivalent, off hand. The PA28R series are too slow. Possibly a Comanche but they're comparitely old.
Beech 33 Bonanza. Competing class to the C182RG. More expensive to maintain I suspect. The A36 I once operated always seemed to cost more than a C210. Nice to fly though. Dislike the Beech panel layout prior to the twin column redesign. Not sure if that ever happened to the 33 series.
Larger:
C210. Also a heavier control feel. Lots of room. Some trade off between filling all seats or the tanks. Similar other advantages to the C182RG. Higher fuel burn.
A36 Bonanza: Competes with the C210. Similar comparison to the C210 as the 33 model to the C182RG. Big disadvantage is a lack of baggage space with all seats filled ie virtually non-existant. Rear double door is a decided advantage.
PA32R Lance/Saratoga. Slower end of the scale. May not quite meet your 150kt spec. depending on load etc. More room than the other two - even a 7th seat option available. Very good baggage room with both a front & rear locker. Makes W&B easy! Also a rear door advantage.
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Thanks very much everyone, all noted - this Glasair thing sounds rather "different". Do they come as certified version?
Tinny, the max I want to pay for an hour (for rental, this is) is about $300 (AU). For purchase/share... it all depends on what it is, condition etc I guess. But it's at a very early stage of consideration and more the case of narrowing down what might be nice to fly
Tinny, the max I want to pay for an hour (for rental, this is) is about $300 (AU). For purchase/share... it all depends on what it is, condition etc I guess. But it's at a very early stage of consideration and more the case of narrowing down what might be nice to fly
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TonyR
Actually you are right, I get 138ktias at 10.5GPH (just a bit LOP) so if you get 150ktias at 13GPH that's just about exactly what one would expect for the far right bit of the power curve: 8.7% more speed for 24% more fuel flow
Actually you are right, I get 138ktias at 10.5GPH (just a bit LOP) so if you get 150ktias at 13GPH that's just about exactly what one would expect for the far right bit of the power curve: 8.7% more speed for 24% more fuel flow
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Atlas Shrugged
Your link is a bit outdated, since no mention of Lancair, Diamond or Cirrus. Also to figures are marketing, not actual. (I don't know af a TB20 that cruises (75%@8000ft) above 150)
The Piper Lance (and don't forget the Beech Sierra) are good value planes but don't forget they where certified to older rules which left them with a higher payload IMHO
Your link is a bit outdated, since no mention of Lancair, Diamond or Cirrus. Also to figures are marketing, not actual. (I don't know af a TB20 that cruises (75%@8000ft) above 150)
The Piper Lance (and don't forget the Beech Sierra) are good value planes but don't forget they where certified to older rules which left them with a higher payload IMHO
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Someone earlier here made a point about upgrading avionics being expensive. It is! It is almost totally a waste of money, in the sense that the value of used avionics is close to zero, but that fact will not be reflected in a discount on the purchase price of a used plane.
It depends what the plane is to be used for.
If it is just VFR, then this doesn't matter. So long as you have VOR/DME you can buy a decent GPS, screw it to the yoke and off you go. You have all the nav gear you need.
But if it is for IFR also, and the plane doesn't come with the required avionics or an autopilot, the figures add up very differently, and one is quickly pushed towards buying something a lot more expensive, simply because the cost of upgrading, plus a reasonable figure for the value of a 2 year warranty (say £10k), takes one awfully close to the price of a new or nearly new plane.
There is a lot of threads here and elsewhere about buying used planes, but most of them focus on getting something 20-30 years old i.e. for about 1/5 of the price of a new equivalent. One isn't going to get an IFR aircraft for that, and very little gets said about this. 2 years ago I spent a year looking at "IFR" planes in the 150kt bracket.
It depends what the plane is to be used for.
If it is just VFR, then this doesn't matter. So long as you have VOR/DME you can buy a decent GPS, screw it to the yoke and off you go. You have all the nav gear you need.
But if it is for IFR also, and the plane doesn't come with the required avionics or an autopilot, the figures add up very differently, and one is quickly pushed towards buying something a lot more expensive, simply because the cost of upgrading, plus a reasonable figure for the value of a 2 year warranty (say £10k), takes one awfully close to the price of a new or nearly new plane.
There is a lot of threads here and elsewhere about buying used planes, but most of them focus on getting something 20-30 years old i.e. for about 1/5 of the price of a new equivalent. One isn't going to get an IFR aircraft for that, and very little gets said about this. 2 years ago I spent a year looking at "IFR" planes in the 150kt bracket.
viva Osh Vegas
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If you are a little more adventurous and have appropriate experience, an L-39 Albatross will do the job for you... acquisition cost is within the ballpark of what's been previously discussed but not so sure about the fuel bills.
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an L-39 Albatross will do the job for you
Could get an N reg one though, then you could fly it IFR (I think)...surprisingly "cheap", and would be an awful lot of fun!
www.l39.com
EA
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Bird Strike: There are a fair number of homebuilt designs that can provide the speed you require, with reasonable endurance. Most seat only two people, which might be an advantage or a disadvantage depending upon the particular mission requirement (no point flying about with three or four extra seats, but if you have plenty of friends, or lots of luggage, a homebuilt probably won't do).
I believe that they're designed for Texans ('tall in the saddle' and all that).
The fuel costs would be high, that's why the acquisition cost is relatively reasonable (limited demand for such an expensive to operate aircraft). Looks like a lot of airplane for the money, though (see generally here); I'd choose it over a Lear Jet! 
The Mooney is a brilliant tourer, if a little snug for 4 people. The older one that I used to fly had non-adjustable rudder pedals and they were a LONG way under the panel.
an L-39 Albatross ... acquisition cost is within the ballpark of what's been previously discussed but not so sure about the fuel bills.
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No one mentioned the Commander series
114's cruise @ 130/140 at around 3000' a little under your target
114tc and 114A's, B's and 115's around 155/165.
I get 5 hours out of my 114, leaned out at 49 liter/hour
wouldnt consider the 112's unless you can get a tc load lifting capacity limited
Beautifully built, stylish and the best cabin in its class no probs for you 6'3" mate. Trailing link u/c means you never do a bad landing.
Only down side I,ve found is that spares are hard to come by sometimes.
114's cruise @ 130/140 at around 3000' a little under your target
114tc and 114A's, B's and 115's around 155/165.
I get 5 hours out of my 114, leaned out at 49 liter/hour
wouldnt consider the 112's unless you can get a tc load lifting capacity limited
Beautifully built, stylish and the best cabin in its class no probs for you 6'3" mate. Trailing link u/c means you never do a bad landing.
Only down side I,ve found is that spares are hard to come by sometimes.
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IO540
The TB20 I had a look on had a HSI, but no Sandel
10000 excl installation/VAT
No IFR GPS (a Trimble)
No Annex 10 certified VOR?Comms
2 time Garmin 40
23000 excl inst/vat
No propper audio panel
3000 excl inst / vat
No MFD
14000 excl inst /vat
No engine monitoring (it's a single remember, its all you have)
Bad paint
20000 excl vat
Corrosion ??
So the difference (and no 167TAS@8000@75%) is about 100.000 euros excl installation (, and it would still be an old airplane (12 years old) without warranty. It bught me a new plane when I added all up. A the grin still has to be scraped off my face
The TB20 I had a look on had a HSI, but no Sandel
10000 excl installation/VAT
No IFR GPS (a Trimble)
No Annex 10 certified VOR?Comms
2 time Garmin 40
23000 excl inst/vat
No propper audio panel
3000 excl inst / vat
No MFD
14000 excl inst /vat
No engine monitoring (it's a single remember, its all you have)
Bad paint
20000 excl vat
Corrosion ??
So the difference (and no 167TAS@8000@75%) is about 100.000 euros excl installation (, and it would still be an old airplane (12 years old) without warranty. It bught me a new plane when I added all up. A the grin still has to be scraped off my face
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SR20fly
That's not a suprising decision you made. I had a look at a few TBs, Commanders, Mooneys, and some others, and by the time one chucked out the old stuff and made them reasonable for IFR, the decision was clear enough: buy a new plane which comes with all the kit.
That's not a suprising decision you made. I had a look at a few TBs, Commanders, Mooneys, and some others, and by the time one chucked out the old stuff and made them reasonable for IFR, the decision was clear enough: buy a new plane which comes with all the kit.
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HSIs are great, not convinced though that the Sandel is a major improvement over the 'old fashioned' Bendix one.
Flew the Robin for 4 days the week before last and found it difficult to read in the bright sunlight but back in the Lance last Tuesday thought it was OK.
What do others think?
FD
Flew the Robin for 4 days the week before last and found it difficult to read in the bright sunlight but back in the Lance last Tuesday thought it was OK.
What do others think?
FD
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SR20fly: that's quite a colourful panel! Just be careful that it doesn't distract you from keeping your eyes outside of the cockpit, where they belong.
FD: if flying in bright sunshine, you don't need an HSI!
FD: if flying in bright sunshine, you don't need an HSI!