Warbird Hire?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
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From: Midlands
Warbird Hire?
I'm looking to expand from my PPL and am keen to try my hand at an old warbird.
Unfortunately, not being blessed with tens of thousands lying in the bank, I would like to know if there is anywhere in the UK that you can train up in and then hire an old warbird without a significant up front outlay. There are a few syndicates flying around, but for the number of hours I would be looking at, I'm not really sure that they are my cup of tea (£10k buys me an awful lot of hours on other types!).
In this arena, the options appear to be few and far between, so any help would be appreciated.
Obs cop
Unfortunately, not being blessed with tens of thousands lying in the bank, I would like to know if there is anywhere in the UK that you can train up in and then hire an old warbird without a significant up front outlay. There are a few syndicates flying around, but for the number of hours I would be looking at, I'm not really sure that they are my cup of tea (£10k buys me an awful lot of hours on other types!).
In this arena, the options appear to be few and far between, so any help would be appreciated.
Obs cop
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 395
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From: Midlands
Practically, I am looking at ex-mil trainers because of the 2 seats. Anything from a chipmunk up would be great, but the icing on the cake would be an ex-mil training jet eg. jet provost mk3 or some such. I'm not bothered if it's UK or otherwise, but I fancy a bit of a chalenge.
There are a huge number of ex-military a/c out there, but most if not all are in private hands or syndicates and quite simply I don't have £10k to join a syndicate.
The other major issue is that I live in the Midlands and I can't find much round here within a reasonable driving distance.
Cheers
Obs cop
There are a huge number of ex-military a/c out there, but most if not all are in private hands or syndicates and quite simply I don't have £10k to join a syndicate.
The other major issue is that I live in the Midlands and I can't find much round here within a reasonable driving distance.
Cheers
Obs cop
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 716
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From: London
Problem with jets (I briefly flirted with the idea of a JP share) is the gas bill. About £300 an hour for the juice if I remember rightly.
If it were me I'd explore Yaks, particularly if you aren't a dragger pilot. There must be somewhere where you can train and rent? Anyone?
If it were me I'd explore Yaks, particularly if you aren't a dragger pilot. There must be somewhere where you can train and rent? Anyone?
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
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From: Canada
anywhere in the UK that you can train up in and then hire an old warbird without a significant up front outlay ... within a reasonable driving distance
Frankly, I think that you're going to have a difficult time finding such a situation. Skysport (near London) will rent you an ex-RAF Bulldog. If you have your heart set on something more exotic, my suggestion would be to: (i) keep your eyes and ears open for likely situations, and (ii) in the interim, build experience on whatever relatively complex / high performance airplanes may be available to you (especially tailwheel).
There are a few syndicates flying around, but for the number of hours I would be looking at, I'm not really sure that they are my cup of tea (£10k buys me an awful lot of hours on other types!).
You might consider buying a syndicate share, doing whatever flying you want to do, and then selling your share. If you pick an airplane in good condition, you shouldn't lose much money, if any.
Life's too short for ironing
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,146
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From: Scotland, & Maryland, USA
If you don't mind travelling, try these guys....
http://www.natg.com/
I've flown with the owner and met some of the pilots and would thoroughly recommend them. I'm sure you'll get some fun flying with them....
http://www.natg.com/
I've flown with the owner and met some of the pilots and would thoroughly recommend them. I'm sure you'll get some fun flying with them....
Northern Monkey
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 217
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From: Newcastle, England
I flew in the Skysport Bulldog G-CBCB, on sunday, curtesy of FNG, and i can confim that it is a LOT nicer than your average pa28, not much different to fly (CS prop, but that needs about 5 minutes training to get used to) but nicely aerobatic, cruises at about 110 - 115 kts, but feels nicer, having a stick.
I dont think that skysport are hugely expensensive either at ~£100/hr tacho wet.
If you fancy ex mil jets though, North Weald seems to have more than its fair share, I'm sure a poke around the notice board there would reveal a few jems for those deep of pocket.
There is also the option of the T67M firefly, i'm not sure if its ex military, as they were owned by a private contractor, but they are nice to fly, a little sluggish in roll, but with fully inverted fuel/oil systems, you can cruise around inverted, should you ever wish to experience the c150 'cant see whats above me' feeling, without having to fly a cessna
Also (I know i harp on about them a lot) the cap 10b, which is used by the froggies as an ab initio trainer for their navy pilots, which is an absolute delight to fly, and is the aircraft that i did my ppl in. It has a brisk 1200fpm climb, but is a taildragger, which may take a little longer to learn to fly. The Sherburn Cap is only £95/hr to hire, and with a 130kt cruise, makes it hardly any more expensive per mile to hire than a PA28, but while being hugely more fun
One of skysports bulldogs G-CBCB with FNG at the wing, with the Sherburn in Elmet Cap10b G-GDTU in the background, taken at Bourn last Sunday
Or how about a YAK 52, certainly different, and ive yet to see anyone climb out of one without a grin on their face. Its quite high on my 'like to fly' list, but ive heard is a little thirsty with its 360hp radial engine.
I dont think that skysport are hugely expensensive either at ~£100/hr tacho wet.
If you fancy ex mil jets though, North Weald seems to have more than its fair share, I'm sure a poke around the notice board there would reveal a few jems for those deep of pocket.
There is also the option of the T67M firefly, i'm not sure if its ex military, as they were owned by a private contractor, but they are nice to fly, a little sluggish in roll, but with fully inverted fuel/oil systems, you can cruise around inverted, should you ever wish to experience the c150 'cant see whats above me' feeling, without having to fly a cessna
Also (I know i harp on about them a lot) the cap 10b, which is used by the froggies as an ab initio trainer for their navy pilots, which is an absolute delight to fly, and is the aircraft that i did my ppl in. It has a brisk 1200fpm climb, but is a taildragger, which may take a little longer to learn to fly. The Sherburn Cap is only £95/hr to hire, and with a 130kt cruise, makes it hardly any more expensive per mile to hire than a PA28, but while being hugely more fun
One of skysports bulldogs G-CBCB with FNG at the wing, with the Sherburn in Elmet Cap10b G-GDTU in the background, taken at Bourn last Sunday
Or how about a YAK 52, certainly different, and ive yet to see anyone climb out of one without a grin on their face. Its quite high on my 'like to fly' list, but ive heard is a little thirsty with its 360hp radial engine.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
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From: Canada
fernytickles: I believe that Obs cop is looking for a place that he can rent an airplane for solo flying ("train up in and then hire an old warbird"). To the best of my knowledge (?), NATG does not permit solo rentals. 
Of course, if I've misinterpreted Obs cop's aspiration, then great, as there are any number of places in the UK and overseas where one can arrange for one or more dual flights on a pay-as-you-go basis (come on over here and we'll put you in the Harvard for a lot less money than NATG charges).
Good thinking.
Of course, if I've misinterpreted Obs cop's aspiration, then great, as there are any number of places in the UK and overseas where one can arrange for one or more dual flights on a pay-as-you-go basis (come on over here and we'll put you in the Harvard for a lot less money than NATG charges).
The Sherburn Cap is only £95/hr to hire, and with a 130kt cruise, makes it hardly any more expensive per mile to hire than a PA28, but while being hugely more fun
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 479
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From: Enniskillen
Take a holiday to the USA or Canada and have a few flights in various things from P51s to Jets.
Get it out of your system and come home and fly a Cub or that CAP10. both a lot of fun and won't bankrupt you
Tony
Get it out of your system and come home and fly a Cub or that CAP10. both a lot of fun and won't bankrupt you
Tony
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,014
Likes: 1
From: England
Hi Obs,
I'd have to agree with TonyR. Have a blast in a Harvard and a JP and maybe a Hunter but when you are done with them a Yak52, a Cub, a CAP 10 or a pitts will give more bang per buck.
The cub has the sweetest handling and amazing short field capability. After that try a Tiger Moth or a Stampe for real flying.
The Harvard has presence but its not very fast and sooo.. noisy.
Have good fun trying them out.
18
I'd have to agree with TonyR. Have a blast in a Harvard and a JP and maybe a Hunter but when you are done with them a Yak52, a Cub, a CAP 10 or a pitts will give more bang per buck.
The cub has the sweetest handling and amazing short field capability. After that try a Tiger Moth or a Stampe for real flying.
The Harvard has presence but its not very fast and sooo.. noisy.
Have good fun trying them out.
18
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
A couple of years ago I helped a chap called Dick Steele, who also owns Sandown airfield, get his 1936 ex-US Navy N3N-3 onto a public transport CofA.
(photo linked from G-INFO, hence the copyright statement, which isn't mine).
He told me that he wanted this so that he could offer experience flights and big taildragger conversions.
Might be worth contacting him via Sandown and seeing if he's still in that game?
G
(photo linked from G-INFO, hence the copyright statement, which isn't mine).
He told me that he wanted this so that he could offer experience flights and big taildragger conversions.
Might be worth contacting him via Sandown and seeing if he's still in that game?
G
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 205
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From: northants
If you're in the Midlands try http://www.skytrace.co.uk/ and fly a Yak52. A lot of smiles for the money.
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
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From: London, UK
The Skysport Bulldog is a very pleasant aircraft and reasonably priced. It has a military look and feel, but it is not really a warbird, despite the paint scheme. Stearmen and Chipmunks are not warbirds either, but I believe that you can fly dual in Martin Shaw's Stearman at Old Buckenham and in Chipmunks at various places including Wycombe. I have not tried a Stearman but Chipmunks are delightful.
Few if any real Warbirds are rentable: they tend to be on permits to fly, and you would have to be very lucky to be allowed to "borrow" them solo. If you go to Wanaka in New Zealand you can do a Tiger Moth to Harvard to Mustang programme. There are possibilities for JP, Delfin and Hunter flights at North Weald and Kemble, but no solo without joining a group.
If you are looking for something different from the average club rental, than as Ninja Bill says the Cap 10 is a delight to fly. Test Pilot, Fighter Pilot and instructor David Robson describes it as the best light aircraft he has flown in 40 years of flying, but note that it does not have the heavy metal feel and smell of a warbird.
Few if any real Warbirds are rentable: they tend to be on permits to fly, and you would have to be very lucky to be allowed to "borrow" them solo. If you go to Wanaka in New Zealand you can do a Tiger Moth to Harvard to Mustang programme. There are possibilities for JP, Delfin and Hunter flights at North Weald and Kemble, but no solo without joining a group.
If you are looking for something different from the average club rental, than as Ninja Bill says the Cap 10 is a delight to fly. Test Pilot, Fighter Pilot and instructor David Robson describes it as the best light aircraft he has flown in 40 years of flying, but note that it does not have the heavy metal feel and smell of a warbird.
Last edited by FNG; 9th July 2004 at 10:04.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
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From: Canada
What is a 'Warbird'?
The Skysport Bulldog ... has a military look and feel, but it is not really a warbird, despite the paint scheme. Stearmen and Chipmunks are not warbirds either
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
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From: London, UK
..and we know from last week that Wide prefers aerobatics with ladies. Oooo errr where's me nomex knic knocs.
PS: MLS I know that there are Wardogs: Skysport's ex Hong Kong one had hard points, and the Botswana ones may have been set up for strafing members of the Fukarwe Tribe armed with surface to air sharpened pieces of fruit. Are there any Warmunks?
PS: MLS I know that there are Wardogs: Skysport's ex Hong Kong one had hard points, and the Botswana ones may have been set up for strafing members of the Fukarwe Tribe armed with surface to air sharpened pieces of fruit. Are there any Warmunks?
Last edited by FNG; 9th July 2004 at 21:14.