Ignoring danger areas
Join Date: Apr 2004
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"And please remember that most sqawdies are thick and taking a sky shot at a plane is fun."
Have to agree that gross generalisations like this are both offensive to the armed forces and to the intelligence of those who read these forums. The shame lies in Pprune being abused by people making remarks such as this without showing the thought, politeness and restraint they would otherwise use during a face to face discussion. A keyboard coward, perhaps. As SRG FC states, remarks like this undermine any valid point MJ may try to make in the future, purely by his own-formed reputation.
The persistent swearing this gentleman uses is most likely an attempt to emphasise, although it comes across as rather neanderthal.
Proberly.
In the words of MJ!
Have to agree that gross generalisations like this are both offensive to the armed forces and to the intelligence of those who read these forums. The shame lies in Pprune being abused by people making remarks such as this without showing the thought, politeness and restraint they would otherwise use during a face to face discussion. A keyboard coward, perhaps. As SRG FC states, remarks like this undermine any valid point MJ may try to make in the future, purely by his own-formed reputation.
The persistent swearing this gentleman uses is most likely an attempt to emphasise, although it comes across as rather neanderthal.
Proberly.
In the words of MJ!
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Aberdeen
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wow, I thought this was a topic about danger areas...now its degraded to a threesome having an online tiff!
Anyway back to the danger areas, our Cessna 172 flew over the Blackdog training range here at about 1,500 ft and we got a phone call from the range asking what the height it was flying at was. We later found they wanted to see what the aircraft looked like at 500 ft because then they'd have to stop a bunch of cadets messing around with rifles. As most of us should know, if we flew below 500 ft near a peson (esspecially people with guns) we would be in big trouble (couldn't think of a better phase). If the people at the range were that worried they should have just told ATC or given a NOTAM.
Bunch of stupid
!
BTW MJ i hate to think i live in the same area as you
Anyway back to the danger areas, our Cessna 172 flew over the Blackdog training range here at about 1,500 ft and we got a phone call from the range asking what the height it was flying at was. We later found they wanted to see what the aircraft looked like at 500 ft because then they'd have to stop a bunch of cadets messing around with rifles. As most of us should know, if we flew below 500 ft near a peson (esspecially people with guns) we would be in big trouble (couldn't think of a better phase). If the people at the range were that worried they should have just told ATC or given a NOTAM.
Bunch of stupid
!BTW MJ i hate to think i live in the same area as you
Join Date: May 2001
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Nah just a local upset with the School I used to work in. I am sure the same user names will track me round the threads giving the same abuse. 
. Such is life.
The squaddie comments were made after 9 years sitting on various ranges aka one of the thick squaddies. And the RA ranges i have seen upsets on are Otterburn, Warcop and Sennybridge and Barrybudden mortar range. Rifles are the least of your worries, anyone that has tried to hit a remote controlled aircraft with a GIMPY can vouch for that even when they fly it in a straight line it takes a lucky shot or a bloody good one. I would be more worried if someone launches a shmooly (magnesium flare) you can't see anything for a minute or so if you unfortunatly look at one which you will do when it goes winging by you. And I think they get up to 1200ft.
With regards to the logging. There will be a log kept of all pages requested from the server along with the IP address of the machine requesting them. All web servers do this anyway unless configured not to. The file's are in txt format so even with the amount of hits the met office get they don't in the grand scheme of things get that large. And even if they do you can just archive them every so often to backup server then tape. So if you give them the user name and time its pretty easy to see what you lifted.
MJ
. Such is life. The squaddie comments were made after 9 years sitting on various ranges aka one of the thick squaddies. And the RA ranges i have seen upsets on are Otterburn, Warcop and Sennybridge and Barrybudden mortar range. Rifles are the least of your worries, anyone that has tried to hit a remote controlled aircraft with a GIMPY can vouch for that even when they fly it in a straight line it takes a lucky shot or a bloody good one. I would be more worried if someone launches a shmooly (magnesium flare) you can't see anything for a minute or so if you unfortunatly look at one which you will do when it goes winging by you. And I think they get up to 1200ft.
With regards to the logging. There will be a log kept of all pages requested from the server along with the IP address of the machine requesting them. All web servers do this anyway unless configured not to. The file's are in txt format so even with the amount of hits the met office get they don't in the grand scheme of things get that large. And even if they do you can just archive them every so often to backup server then tape. So if you give them the user name and time its pretty easy to see what you lifted.
MJ
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Witchdoctor
The Quality Manager from AIS has off his own bat emailed me as follows:-
So they do read this forum and others and they are concerned. Please drop him an email with the details and he will investigate [email protected]
The reference he quotes is to the availability of a Danger Area Crossing Service from 130.050 (West Freugh App) or 119.875 (Scottish Information).
Bear in mind with danger area activation that the usage may be weather or equipment dependent. The activity may well not take place if the vis is insufficient or the equipment goes tech (in this case it's to 23,000 feet so vis might well be important). If the activity is cancelled the DA will go cold and the airspace will be made available again (you wouldn't like them to keep it hot if the activity is cancelled would you?)
Apropos of other comments on the login process. AIS can and do find and reproduce briefings that have been taken. If you are accused of infringing and it wasn't in your brief they will find the evidence that gets you off the hook.
Similarly if you have a complaint about your briefing they can find it and are only too happy to investigate it and report back. If you have no traceability you can't find out what went wrong and you have no Quality System.
Finally, if you do have a problem with what you are given please complain. The final part of the FAQ document on the site gives you the details. Most airspace restrictions are originated by the Airspace Utilisation Section of the Directorate of Airspace Policy at the CAA (AUS/DAP/CAA). They have the job of deconflicting activities, which explains why the AIC for the PFA Rally ran one of the major inbound routes within 3 miles of a major gliding competition
.
Danger Area NOTAM come from AIS. The FAQ tells you who to complain to in both instances. If no-one complains nothing gets done.
Mike
Further follow up
Innacurate or misleading NOTAMs don't assist either. Flew out to NI yesterday. D402A NOTAMed as active above normal level. It was cold. However, D403B was active which hadn't been NOTAMed at all.
Mike
I appreciate you are busy with the PFA Rally but the post by Witchdoctor concerns me.
I am quite happy to investigate this matter but I need dates/times and the type of brief accessed, and if possible his username and password. Might I also draw his attention to, in respect of Danger Area EG D402A, to the AIP ENR 5-1-3-1-14 col 3.
I appreciate you are busy with the PFA Rally but the post by Witchdoctor concerns me.
I am quite happy to investigate this matter but I need dates/times and the type of brief accessed, and if possible his username and password. Might I also draw his attention to, in respect of Danger Area EG D402A, to the AIP ENR 5-1-3-1-14 col 3.
The reference he quotes is to the availability of a Danger Area Crossing Service from 130.050 (West Freugh App) or 119.875 (Scottish Information).
Bear in mind with danger area activation that the usage may be weather or equipment dependent. The activity may well not take place if the vis is insufficient or the equipment goes tech (in this case it's to 23,000 feet so vis might well be important). If the activity is cancelled the DA will go cold and the airspace will be made available again (you wouldn't like them to keep it hot if the activity is cancelled would you?)
Apropos of other comments on the login process. AIS can and do find and reproduce briefings that have been taken. If you are accused of infringing and it wasn't in your brief they will find the evidence that gets you off the hook.
Similarly if you have a complaint about your briefing they can find it and are only too happy to investigate it and report back. If you have no traceability you can't find out what went wrong and you have no Quality System.
Finally, if you do have a problem with what you are given please complain. The final part of the FAQ document on the site gives you the details. Most airspace restrictions are originated by the Airspace Utilisation Section of the Directorate of Airspace Policy at the CAA (AUS/DAP/CAA). They have the job of deconflicting activities, which explains why the AIC for the PFA Rally ran one of the major inbound routes within 3 miles of a major gliding competition
.Danger Area NOTAM come from AIS. The FAQ tells you who to complain to in both instances. If no-one complains nothing gets done.
Mike
Further follow up
Mike
Further to the item below.
The matter has been investigated by myself and the Range authority.Results are as follows:
1.Danger Area EG D402A is published in the AIP as active at certain periods and the vertical parameters may be subject to change depending upon the trial being undertaken. A NOTAM was issued.
2.Danger Area EG D403B, according to the AIP and the Range, does not exist.
3. On the assumption that a typo occurred (or is he using an out of date chart) I looked at EG D402B which was not active on the 7 July, however EG D403 was.
Unless more details are provided by Witchdoctor I am investigating no further.
Have a nice Rally. I remember the Cranfield days and visitors to the AIS caravan and the robust debates and questions.
Barry
Further to the item below.
The matter has been investigated by myself and the Range authority.Results are as follows:
1.Danger Area EG D402A is published in the AIP as active at certain periods and the vertical parameters may be subject to change depending upon the trial being undertaken. A NOTAM was issued.
2.Danger Area EG D403B, according to the AIP and the Range, does not exist.
3. On the assumption that a typo occurred (or is he using an out of date chart) I looked at EG D402B which was not active on the 7 July, however EG D403 was.
Unless more details are provided by Witchdoctor I am investigating no further.
Have a nice Rally. I remember the Cranfield days and visitors to the AIS caravan and the robust debates and questions.
Barry
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Doh!
Quite right, it was 403. Must try harder.
Although we had actually planned to go around the danger areas, a simple request to Scottish Info had allowed us to take a more direct track.
Nice to know somebody out there knows what they're doing. Thanks for that.
Quite right, it was 403. Must try harder.
Although we had actually planned to go around the danger areas, a simple request to Scottish Info had allowed us to take a more direct track.
Nice to know somebody out there knows what they're doing. Thanks for that.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
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As a further follow up on the subject of complaints.
AUS (as opposed to AIS) have been issuing what used to be called Royal Flight NOTAM by referencing Airways Waypoints. For a NOTAM that is scoped VFR/IFR it is a bit daft to use points that do not appear on the ICAO VFR chart. Following a user complaint they have agreed to include the co-ordinates so that those without an IFR chart can plot them.
I understand that AIS have been assisting AUS in updating the templates they use so an improvement should be visible in the future.
Mike
AUS (as opposed to AIS) have been issuing what used to be called Royal Flight NOTAM by referencing Airways Waypoints. For a NOTAM that is scoped VFR/IFR it is a bit daft to use points that do not appear on the ICAO VFR chart. Following a user complaint they have agreed to include the co-ordinates so that those without an IFR chart can plot them.
I understand that AIS have been assisting AUS in updating the templates they use so an improvement should be visible in the future.
Mike
