Paying for syndicate trial flights

[Mak]

I've been looking for a a/c share to buy and found that the seeling owner either pays for the trial flight or expects the prospective buyer to pay for it.

The earlier option is quite pleasant but a bit unfair to the seller. However the latter is even worse because the buyer, who generally does little flying, no TO or landings and cannot log any of the time anyway (unless he's buying a two pilot B737... unfortunately that's not me) ends up paying for somebody else's flying time!

Wouldn't it be much fairer for everybody involved if the cost is split between the buyer and the pilot or seller? I'm not sure how the latter leaves the P.1 because I am under the impression that he is required to pay for at least 1/N the cost of the flight, where N is minimum of 4 or the number of occupants.

Not trying to start a flame but I've been putoff by the situation.

Feel much better now.

Mak

[Genghis the Engineer]

Unless the seller is also an instructor, I suspect that your suggestion is probably the only legal way to do it that avoids people going around trying to get free flying by pretending to be prospective buyers.

On the other subject, I'd not buy an aeroplane if I'd not had a decent chance to handle the controls and decide if I was happy with it or not. Sure, it's not unreasonable for the seller to fly the take-off and landing for insurance purposes if nothing else, but I'd expect if I was a prospective buyer to do most of the rest of the flying.

Of course you can't log it; you aren't the captain, the other pilot is (probably) not an instructor, and almost certainly it's not certified as a multi-crew aircraft. But, if you buy it - you can log all the flying you like ;-)

G

[Mike Cross]

Don't tell the CAA if it hasn't got a Transport Cat C of A.
Otherwise the normal cost-sharing rules apply.

(Take a gander at CAP393)

[MLS-12D]

In my own (limited) experience, the owner (would-be seller) usually absorbs the cost of the flight. If the prospective purchaser decides not to buy the airplane, the normal courtesy is to make some reasonable contribution towards the cost of the flight.

I suppose that an aircraft seller could attempt to negotiate the costs of a demonstration flight before it occurs, but this would be off-putting for many potential purchasers, and in the grand scheme of things the expense involved is so small that it's probably not worth it ... there is usually not a long queue of people hoping to buy an individual airplane.

people going around trying to get free flying by pretending to be prospective buyers

Never having sold an airplane, I don't know whether this is a common problem; but I suspect not. Frankly, it isn't difficult to get aircraft owners (including those who have no desire to sell) to take you up for a familiarization flight, simply by asking; you just have to be polite, friendly, and show a sincere interest. I have approached complete strangers, who have been happy to accomodate my request for a flight (btw, this sometimes leads to new friendships). More often than not, they don't want to be paid anything (although one should certainly offer). In short, there's no need for elaborate pretence.

I'd not buy an aeroplane if I'd not had a decent chance to handle the controls and decide if I was happy with it or not

I agree. Unless you have significant prior experience on the type, take offs and landings are usually out; but if you are thinking of buying the airplane, you should expect to be permitted to do most of the other flying, including steep turns, sideslips, slow flight and stalls.

[yakker]

We ask the prospective buyer to at least pay for the fuel. We have had 'buyers' just wanting a flight in a Yak 52, after the flight it becomes obvious they had no intention of buying, hoping for a free ride.

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

I recently carried out a test flight with a syndicate. All such flights in the group are carried out by the Group Secretary, on behalf of the seller. I was P1, in the left hand seat and flew the entire flight. I paid for the fuel and landing, with the "dry" cost met by the seller. Seemed a very reasonable arrangement to all concerned.

The flight had the combined purpose of me checking out the aircraft and the group checking out me! (passed muster on both accounts ).

TallGuy

[18greens]

I don't think it is unreasonable to say you will charge for the flight then refund it if the guy buys the share.

Saying you will charge (even if you don't) soon sorts out the tyre kickers from the serious buyers. Serious buyer think it is totally reasonable, tyre kickers suddenly remember the time and start running for the door.

Having said that I've given lots of demo trips and I don't think any of the buyers were not genuine.

[[u]]

I would agree with 18greens, expect to pay for the demo flight,
but get the money reimbursed when you actually buy the plane.

If you want/need 10 demo flights before picking on a plane
you might need to rethink your options