Night/IMC/Multi
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19
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From: UK
Night/IMC/Multi
Hi,
I have had a PPL for about 5 years and I am fancying doing something to further my experience.
I am looking at Night, IMC or possibly a multi rating.
Am I right in thinking that a Multi Rating is prohibitively expensive to keep current?
What are the rules for keeping it and the Night/IMC current?
Is there a minimum hours concern for any/all of these?
Thanks for any advice
Rgds
Ninj43
I have had a PPL for about 5 years and I am fancying doing something to further my experience.
I am looking at Night, IMC or possibly a multi rating.
Am I right in thinking that a Multi Rating is prohibitively expensive to keep current?
What are the rules for keeping it and the Night/IMC current?
Is there a minimum hours concern for any/all of these?
Thanks for any advice
Rgds
Ninj43
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
From: Gt. Yarmouth, Norfolk
Go for the IMC. It will improve the accuracy of your flying considerably and it will add to the safety of flying if you get caught out by the weather. Training is 15 hours minimum. The rating lasts for 25 month, when you have to revalidate it with an flight test.
There is no renewal or revalidation of a Night Qualifiacation. However, you have to have done one take off and landing at night within the 90 days before taking a passenger.
With a multi the currency requirements are 10 route sectors in the 12 months (route sector is take off, cruise of at least 15 minutes and landing). You need a proficiency check within three months of the expiry of the rating; alternatively you can fly one route sector with an examiner during the proficiency check in lieu of the 10 sectors. The multi is I believe type specific, so there will be additional cost in moving from one type to another
There is no renewal or revalidation of a Night Qualifiacation. However, you have to have done one take off and landing at night within the 90 days before taking a passenger.
With a multi the currency requirements are 10 route sectors in the 12 months (route sector is take off, cruise of at least 15 minutes and landing). You need a proficiency check within three months of the expiry of the rating; alternatively you can fly one route sector with an examiner during the proficiency check in lieu of the 10 sectors. The multi is I believe type specific, so there will be additional cost in moving from one type to another
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Anywhere
Go IMC first, then Night.
Unless you're going to fly a twin regularly then forget it. Twin currency is 10 'sectors' a year (a sector being depart, 15 minutes minimum in the cruise, and arrival) plus an annual sign off flight. This is the bare minimum and it's barely enough to stay safe. A twin is twice as safe if you're up to speed - and twice as deadly if you're not. Also it'll cost you double the money (at least) in aircraft hire but you won't get double the speed.
So - IMC. Possibly, providing the tuition is good, the most useful 15 hours you will ever do (unless you get a full Instrument rating). Rating is valid for 25 months, re-tested by two approaches plus partial panel and full panel flying with an examiner. It'll make your flying more accurate, and enable you to fly on those 'marginal' days when you wouldn't. You'll also get the best view in flying - on top of clouds rather than beneath them.
Night Qualification - 5 hours flying, some solo. Once you get it the problem is going to be using it unless you operate from an airport that operates decent hours. Nice to have, and useable, especially in winter.
Remember this before you decide which one to do first - you can't see clouds at night until you're inside them, by which time it's too late and you'll find yourself saying "I wish I'd done the IMC first" or you'll be saying "I'm glad I did the IMC first"
P.S - Justiciar and I obviously crossed. But one thing to correct in his post is the multi is not type specific.
Unless you're going to fly a twin regularly then forget it. Twin currency is 10 'sectors' a year (a sector being depart, 15 minutes minimum in the cruise, and arrival) plus an annual sign off flight. This is the bare minimum and it's barely enough to stay safe. A twin is twice as safe if you're up to speed - and twice as deadly if you're not. Also it'll cost you double the money (at least) in aircraft hire but you won't get double the speed.
So - IMC. Possibly, providing the tuition is good, the most useful 15 hours you will ever do (unless you get a full Instrument rating). Rating is valid for 25 months, re-tested by two approaches plus partial panel and full panel flying with an examiner. It'll make your flying more accurate, and enable you to fly on those 'marginal' days when you wouldn't. You'll also get the best view in flying - on top of clouds rather than beneath them.
Night Qualification - 5 hours flying, some solo. Once you get it the problem is going to be using it unless you operate from an airport that operates decent hours. Nice to have, and useable, especially in winter.
Remember this before you decide which one to do first - you can't see clouds at night until you're inside them, by which time it's too late and you'll find yourself saying "I wish I'd done the IMC first" or you'll be saying "I'm glad I did the IMC first"
P.S - Justiciar and I obviously crossed. But one thing to correct in his post is the multi is not type specific.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19
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From: UK
Thanks,
Im definately starting to think that the Multi is out of the question.
I see the logic in the IMC then Night route.
Is there a dummies guide anywhere for the priveledges and requirements of an IMC?
Im assuming you need a sufficiently high cloudbase to get airborne in the first place, but it does permit you to fly IFR to get on top?
Thanks for the replies,
Ninj43
Im definately starting to think that the Multi is out of the question.
I see the logic in the IMC then Night route.
Is there a dummies guide anywhere for the priveledges and requirements of an IMC?
Im assuming you need a sufficiently high cloudbase to get airborne in the first place, but it does permit you to fly IFR to get on top?
Thanks for the replies,
Ninj43
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
The IMC rating confers the same privileges as the Instrument Rating but:
1. UK airspace only
2. Not allowed in class A
3. IMC can be taught very well by good school and instructor but there are not many of those around, best try to find one with a full IR
FD
1. UK airspace only
2. Not allowed in class A
3. IMC can be taught very well by good school and instructor but there are not many of those around, best try to find one with a full IR
FD
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
Agree with FD. I would just add that 15hrs is pretty optimistic; 25hrs is nearer the mark to be able to pick up more or less any approach plate and be able to fly it.
Also you don't say how many hours you do a year. If less than 20-30, the IMC Rating training is just going to get wasted - unless you just use it for en-route (e.g. VMC on top) but then you have still got to pass the flight test regularly...
Also you don't say how many hours you do a year. If less than 20-30, the IMC Rating training is just going to get wasted - unless you just use it for en-route (e.g. VMC on top) but then you have still got to pass the flight test regularly...
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 479
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From: Enniskillen
I would do a tailwheel course first, then an aerobatic course. (thats if you can find a good instructor to teach either), before doing an IMC or night rating. Unless you have access to a multi aircraft don't bother with that.
Many pilots never really learn to master the aircraft, when you can it makes IMC and indeed night flying a lot easier.
Too many "club" pilots like to tell others about how many bits of paper they have and their flying is sh.t.
Tony R
Many pilots never really learn to master the aircraft, when you can it makes IMC and indeed night flying a lot easier.
Too many "club" pilots like to tell others about how many bits of paper they have and their flying is sh.t.
Tony R
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,359
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From: Midlands
I did IMC then night. Went up after with an instructor who had done part of my PPL and he said I flew like I was on instruments all the time and I needed to learn where the limits were. He recommended an Aerobatic course, which I did and would say this was a good order to do things in.
Rod1
Rod1
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
From: Gt. Yarmouth, Norfolk
I would do a tailwheel course first
The key to rewarding flying is to try different aircraft and develop different skills. The greater variety the better the pilot. And, it does't have to be hugely expensive. Whatever you want to do shop around and talk to as many people as possible.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,650
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From: Chichester, UK
In that case, aeros are great 
A few hours in a tailwheel aeroplane is also well worth it, even if you never take up flying them afterwards. It can be a bit depressing at times, and I still don't think that i've really 'got it', but it's a good experience - and when I got into a PA28 afterwards I could see the improvement.
A few hours in a tailwheel aeroplane is also well worth it, even if you never take up flying them afterwards. It can be a bit depressing at times, and I still don't think that i've really 'got it', but it's a good experience - and when I got into a PA28 afterwards I could see the improvement.
