What is the best all-round aircraft?
The Original Whirly
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What is the best all-round aircraft?
This seemed like a good subject for discussion at least....
I just got back from touring Europe in a C150. Not ideal for this purpose - 80 kt cruising speed means it takes you ages to get anywhere in a headwind; under 4 hour endurance means you can't plan very long legs in that possible headwind; payload such that if we hadn't been two fairly light people the trip would have been impossible. I looked somewhat enviously at our occasional flying companions in their AA5A, and at the Longeze tied down next to G-ATKF when I got home to Sleap. But both of these types need long runways. And I'm only likely to go long distance touring once or twice a year; dropping into relatively short fields I might do more often than that (when I get back to really being current on f/w aircraft). So I started thinking....
We talk often about different types of aircraft for different types of flying - but what would be the best all-round aircraft? It would need a reasonable cruising speed, payload, and endurance for long trips, but still be able to get into short fields. It should be reasonably fun to fly - a C172 fulfils all of the above, and is as much fun as....dunno. It needs to be able to land in a stonking crosswind like we had at Southend, on the one runway that big airports usually have. It needs to be suitable for all sizes of pilot; at 5ft 2ins, I can't actually fly a C172 without loads of cushions, and that's neither comfortable nor safe on long trips. Realistically, it needs to be relatively inexpensive; I'd love to hear abour the £100,000 aircraft that fulfils all of the above, but if money was no object, I could get an MD500 helicopter, cruise at 140kts, and land on a postage stamp. So I'm thinking about something the average pilot could buy, or at least have a share in - in a group of not more than about 6, or taking it away for a couple of weeks might become difficult. If it could do aeros and things as well I suppose that might be nice, at least for the sake of the discussion, though personally that isn't my thing.
I can't be the only pilot who wants an aircraft that can do...everything. Does it exist? Any suggestions?
I just got back from touring Europe in a C150. Not ideal for this purpose - 80 kt cruising speed means it takes you ages to get anywhere in a headwind; under 4 hour endurance means you can't plan very long legs in that possible headwind; payload such that if we hadn't been two fairly light people the trip would have been impossible. I looked somewhat enviously at our occasional flying companions in their AA5A, and at the Longeze tied down next to G-ATKF when I got home to Sleap. But both of these types need long runways. And I'm only likely to go long distance touring once or twice a year; dropping into relatively short fields I might do more often than that (when I get back to really being current on f/w aircraft). So I started thinking....
We talk often about different types of aircraft for different types of flying - but what would be the best all-round aircraft? It would need a reasonable cruising speed, payload, and endurance for long trips, but still be able to get into short fields. It should be reasonably fun to fly - a C172 fulfils all of the above, and is as much fun as....dunno. It needs to be able to land in a stonking crosswind like we had at Southend, on the one runway that big airports usually have. It needs to be suitable for all sizes of pilot; at 5ft 2ins, I can't actually fly a C172 without loads of cushions, and that's neither comfortable nor safe on long trips. Realistically, it needs to be relatively inexpensive; I'd love to hear abour the £100,000 aircraft that fulfils all of the above, but if money was no object, I could get an MD500 helicopter, cruise at 140kts, and land on a postage stamp. So I'm thinking about something the average pilot could buy, or at least have a share in - in a group of not more than about 6, or taking it away for a couple of weeks might become difficult. If it could do aeros and things as well I suppose that might be nice, at least for the sake of the discussion, though personally that isn't my thing.
I can't be the only pilot who wants an aircraft that can do...everything. Does it exist? Any suggestions?
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Lots of people slate spam-cans, but in my years of having a share in a Warrior I found it great. Took it into short grass strips, toured Europe. Stable IF platform. 5 hours endurance and loads of baggage space. No vices for the average or low-hours pilot, simple to maintain.
Having changed to an Archer I've no reasons to suspect that's going to be any different - same wing, just bigger engine. It's that wing that makes all the difference - I wouldn't want an earlier PA28 with the slab wing.
Other than that though - my choice would be the DR400 too.
Having changed to an Archer I've no reasons to suspect that's going to be any different - same wing, just bigger engine. It's that wing that makes all the difference - I wouldn't want an earlier PA28 with the slab wing.
Other than that though - my choice would be the DR400 too.
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If it could do aeros and things as well
Don't know the Fuji well enough to comment there though
The Original Whirly
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OK, tell me about the DR400...
Chilli Monster, PA 28 into short grass strips? How short? I thought it tended to float on for ever. Not that I've flown one much, and what I did was several years ago.
Chilli Monster, PA 28 into short grass strips? How short? I thought it tended to float on for ever. Not that I've flown one much, and what I did was several years ago.
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Hey Whirls,
What about that lovely big 4 seat Yak 18?
Fast cruise
£40,000 to buy
Aerobatic
Beautiful
Metal
Holds value
Unique
Interior tailor made to buyers spec (so you could have special cushions made up with the Russian sickle and stars emblem on!!)
Trouble is, they tend to be too big to fit in most hangars!!
What about that lovely big 4 seat Yak 18?
Fast cruise
£40,000 to buy
Aerobatic
Beautiful
Metal
Holds value
Unique
Interior tailor made to buyers spec (so you could have special cushions made up with the Russian sickle and stars emblem on!!)
Trouble is, they tend to be too big to fit in most hangars!!
Yak-18, what's the running cost?
PA28 , I love mine, but it's a braver man (or far better pilot) than I who would contemplate routinely using anything shorter than 600m of grass - and personally I prefer 800.
G
PA28 , I love mine, but it's a braver man (or far better pilot) than I who would contemplate routinely using anything shorter than 600m of grass - and personally I prefer 800.
G
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Chilli Monster, PA 28 into short grass strips? How short?
I thought it tended to float on for ever.
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At the moment I fly a TB20 for touring, fast, 6+ hours endurance and good on anything over 600 M.
I have just over 50 type in the log book and if I were to suggest one that you should buy it would be a Cessna Reims Rocket 172.
I hate the look of them, I hate flying them, I hate the smell of the cabin heater,
BUT they are probibly the best all round touring aircraft ever built. (and with the right driver good for 20+ knots crosswind)
You should pick up one for under £40,000.
Tony
I have just over 50 type in the log book and if I were to suggest one that you should buy it would be a Cessna Reims Rocket 172.
I hate the look of them, I hate flying them, I hate the smell of the cabin heater,
BUT they are probibly the best all round touring aircraft ever built. (and with the right driver good for 20+ knots crosswind)
You should pick up one for under £40,000.
Tony
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What about a Vans RV 6 or 7, 200mph and gets into 400M strips.
You can get recently built ones for half your budjet. Great viz, beautifull looking, low ongoing costs as it's a permit aircraft, but you can't use your instrument/night rating.
Serious grin inducing aircraft, don't know about it's handling of stiff croswinds, as I've only been a passenger in one.
They don't seem to depreciate, the biggest problem is getting hold of one.
CC
PS Little Gransden is a grass strip less than 600M where the flying school uses PA28's no probs.
You can get recently built ones for half your budjet. Great viz, beautifull looking, low ongoing costs as it's a permit aircraft, but you can't use your instrument/night rating.
Serious grin inducing aircraft, don't know about it's handling of stiff croswinds, as I've only been a passenger in one.
They don't seem to depreciate, the biggest problem is getting hold of one.
CC
PS Little Gransden is a grass strip less than 600M where the flying school uses PA28's no probs.
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I'm researching this kind of a/c too at the moment. Criteria is similar, though I would phrase it as "cost effective all round a/c". Only criteria I would add would be to carry 4 reasonable sized adults at a push (say with half tanks).
My very short list is:
Jodel D140 - if you can find one, and a convenient hangar too.
Robin DR400
C172
I'm ruling out the PA28s as they don't quite have the load carrying capability.
At my local airfield - there's a C172 I like...
My very short list is:
Jodel D140 - if you can find one, and a convenient hangar too.
Robin DR400
C172
I'm ruling out the PA28s as they don't quite have the load carrying capability.
At my local airfield - there's a C172 I like...
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I'm ruling out the PA28s as they don't quite have the load carrying capability.
They can lift their own weight out of a medium length grass strip so that means 4 adults, full fuel and a few suitcases full of Euros!!!
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Everyone's talking about practicality; what about FUN! A PA28 or a C172 might make the most sense, but they are more than tad yawny to fly, other than perhaps the landing, which is always intersting in any aeroplane.
I remember delivering Poet Pilot's C172 from Barton to Sleap last year. It was a pleasant flight on a summer's evening, my first in a 172 for many years (though I've loads of 172 time), and the Shopshire scenery was as enticing as ever. The landing was nice (I love those 40 degree flaps and that powerful elevator! - you can do a really good fully-held-off greaser, but few bother to), and Poet and I departed back to Barton in a club PA28.
Once again I was looking down at the lovely countryside, this time northbound. Poet offered me the controls, but why bother? The '28 is no pilot's aeroplane; in common with many of its type, it is soggy and unresponsive, and only really wants to fly straight and level - it's heart isn't in anything any more spirited, but it will do them if forced. I prefered to admire the view and leave the pudding-stiring to Poet.
Poet accepted my reluctance to swap the nice view (out of the side - Piper have ensured the pilot is not distracted by a forward view by mounting a bleedin great panel in the way - I think you are only supposed to fly this thing on instruments) for an unrewarding heave on unresponsive controls. "Quite so", said Poet. "I think there is a spitoon in here somewhere"
Don't know about you lot, but I learned to fly 'cause I wanted to be a bird. That means instant, fun responses, in a machine that becomes an extension of yourself, not one you sit in and drive. I realise this is a personal view not shared by all, but any all-round aeroplane should at lest touch into these areas, even if it doesn't come close to such all-out fun machines as the L4 Cub, Yak52, Stampe, or Chipmunk (and many more I've flown or have yet to fly).
The Yak 18T is a possibility (Ghengis, it's a powerful aerobatic machine and won't be cheap to fly, but you get what you pay for). The Pup or Bulldog are also posibilities.
Surely, whatever we think should be the ideal all-round aeroplane, it should have an element of fun in being at least 'good to fly' and in some part, a 'pilot's aeroplane'.
The 172 and PA28 are not.
Vince
I remember delivering Poet Pilot's C172 from Barton to Sleap last year. It was a pleasant flight on a summer's evening, my first in a 172 for many years (though I've loads of 172 time), and the Shopshire scenery was as enticing as ever. The landing was nice (I love those 40 degree flaps and that powerful elevator! - you can do a really good fully-held-off greaser, but few bother to), and Poet and I departed back to Barton in a club PA28.
Once again I was looking down at the lovely countryside, this time northbound. Poet offered me the controls, but why bother? The '28 is no pilot's aeroplane; in common with many of its type, it is soggy and unresponsive, and only really wants to fly straight and level - it's heart isn't in anything any more spirited, but it will do them if forced. I prefered to admire the view and leave the pudding-stiring to Poet.
Poet accepted my reluctance to swap the nice view (out of the side - Piper have ensured the pilot is not distracted by a forward view by mounting a bleedin great panel in the way - I think you are only supposed to fly this thing on instruments) for an unrewarding heave on unresponsive controls. "Quite so", said Poet. "I think there is a spitoon in here somewhere"
Don't know about you lot, but I learned to fly 'cause I wanted to be a bird. That means instant, fun responses, in a machine that becomes an extension of yourself, not one you sit in and drive. I realise this is a personal view not shared by all, but any all-round aeroplane should at lest touch into these areas, even if it doesn't come close to such all-out fun machines as the L4 Cub, Yak52, Stampe, or Chipmunk (and many more I've flown or have yet to fly).
The Yak 18T is a possibility (Ghengis, it's a powerful aerobatic machine and won't be cheap to fly, but you get what you pay for). The Pup or Bulldog are also posibilities.
Surely, whatever we think should be the ideal all-round aeroplane, it should have an element of fun in being at least 'good to fly' and in some part, a 'pilot's aeroplane'.
The 172 and PA28 are not.
Vince
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Vince,
I agree...well, I would wouldn't I, since I'm a helicopter pilot by inclination; just can't afford to fly them any distance now unless I get paid. It's why I'm just not attracted to the C172, apart from the fact that if I can't see over the cowling and reach the pedals without a cushion collection. Some of the other suggestions are interesting though - keep' em coming.
Just to make it even harder....
High wing is nice, so that you can look at the view.
All metal is nice, so that it can live outside.
As for the PA28, I refuse to fly anything where in an emergency I can't get out until after my passengers do - two doors please!
I agree...well, I would wouldn't I, since I'm a helicopter pilot by inclination; just can't afford to fly them any distance now unless I get paid. It's why I'm just not attracted to the C172, apart from the fact that if I can't see over the cowling and reach the pedals without a cushion collection. Some of the other suggestions are interesting though - keep' em coming.
Just to make it even harder....
High wing is nice, so that you can look at the view.
All metal is nice, so that it can live outside.
As for the PA28, I refuse to fly anything where in an emergency I can't get out until after my passengers do - two doors please!
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If I didn't need four seats, it would be easy - CAP10. Seriously great to fly, and will (according to FNG) take bags and go places. Then leave the bags behind, and ... wheeee! I've not yet flown an Extra, but when I do I rather suspect that I'd still go for the CAP10, in the same way that I'd pick a DB5 over an AMG SL55
With 4 seats, I'd go for a DR400. I'm a huge fan of Robins, and the DR400 is a lovely aeroplane to fly. Unless I've just won the lottery, then it's probably a SR22 and DA40 shootout...
With 4 seats, I'd go for a DR400. I'm a huge fan of Robins, and the DR400 is a lovely aeroplane to fly. Unless I've just won the lottery, then it's probably a SR22 and DA40 shootout...
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Here is another type that I had some fun in.
The Maule MX-7-180B, don't go for the nosewheel version they are only for sissies and don't fly as well.
Any big garden will do
Tony
The Maule MX-7-180B, don't go for the nosewheel version they are only for sissies and don't fly as well.
Any big garden will do
Tony