Drinking & Flying
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Drinking & Flying
Does anyone know of a case where a GA pilot has been breathalised at an airfield?
Also, how do we all regard drinking and flying?
Is it a case of "nil" the night before or sensible moderation?
Just interested
Also, how do we all regard drinking and flying?
Is it a case of "nil" the night before or sensible moderation?
Just interested
I've posted this before, but some research I did in the RAeS library a year or two ago bears repetition....
In simplistic terms, this comes out as:-
- 2½ hours per pint of strong beer
- 1 hour each per single malt or small glass of wine.
- And always at-least 8 hours regardless.
Having said that, I'd go with minimum 8 hours, and not more than 2 drinks within a few hours before that as a good rule of thumb.
G
The basic unit of alcohol within the body is mg/100ml of blood (referred to as %mg BAL). Obviously the relationship between how much you drink and BAL is dependent upon sex, weight, and a few other things. But the references seem to pretty much agree on the following rules of thumb for a standard adult:-
1 pint beer: 24%mg within an hour (can be up to 35%mg, depending upon strength of beer which clearly varies)
1 measure spirits: 12%mg within an hour
1 small glass wine: 15%mg within an hour.
The body (liver) then evacuates alcohol at a pretty constant rate of 15%mg per hour - although the references do admit that depending upon physiology it can actually be anywhere between 8 and 25 %mg/hour.
That stuff most of us had some idea about, but certainly it helps work out where we are after a good night out.
Now to the interesting bit - what the various studies gave as effects of alcohol. The various reports, papers and medical textbooks were pretty consistent. From them I came up with the following:-
11%mg - Reduced ability to maintain correct airspeed or flightpath under high workload
15%mg - 1/3 of pilots in fatal accidents had this level or above in their bodies (from autopsy reports)
20%mg - UK legal flying limit. Significant increase in errors on RT, planning and correct following of procedures.
40%mg - US legal flying limit. Major effect on number of errors on RT and following procedures.
- Reduction in g tolerance by between 0.1 and 0.4g.
50%mg - Impaired ability to visually fix or track objects
60%mg - Consistent degredation of long term performance even on low workload tasks.
80%mg - UK legal driving limit
150%mg - loss of self control (exactly what is meant by this wasn't defined)
200%mg - double vision, some loss of memory
400%mg - Loss of consciousness.
Three other notes were interesting...
(1) from a study where they tanked pilots up to 150%mg which was that afterwards when BAL had gone down to zero, visual impairment and disorientation could occur up to 7 hours afterwards.
(2) All the studies agreed that under high workload alcohol degraded pilots' performance much more than under low workload.
(3) Up until very high alcohol levels, virtually all the degredation was of judgment or ability to follow procedure, rather than of actual physical skills.
In simplistic terms, this comes out as:-
- 2½ hours per pint of strong beer
- 1 hour each per single malt or small glass of wine.
- And always at-least 8 hours regardless.
Having said that, I'd go with minimum 8 hours, and not more than 2 drinks within a few hours before that as a good rule of thumb.
G
The basic unit of alcohol within the body is mg/100ml of blood (referred to as %mg BAL). Obviously the relationship between how much you drink and BAL is dependent upon sex, weight, and a few other things. But the references seem to pretty much agree on the following rules of thumb for a standard adult:-
1 pint beer: 24%mg within an hour (can be up to 35%mg, depending upon strength of beer which clearly varies)
1 measure spirits: 12%mg within an hour
1 small glass wine: 15%mg within an hour.
The body (liver) then evacuates alcohol at a pretty constant rate of 15%mg per hour - although the references do admit that depending upon physiology it can actually be anywhere between 8 and 25 %mg/hour.
That stuff most of us had some idea about, but certainly it helps work out where we are after a good night out.
Now to the interesting bit - what the various studies gave as effects of alcohol. The various reports, papers and medical textbooks were pretty consistent. From them I came up with the following:-
11%mg - Reduced ability to maintain correct airspeed or flightpath under high workload
15%mg - 1/3 of pilots in fatal accidents had this level or above in their bodies (from autopsy reports)
20%mg - UK legal flying limit. Significant increase in errors on RT, planning and correct following of procedures.
40%mg - US legal flying limit. Major effect on number of errors on RT and following procedures.
- Reduction in g tolerance by between 0.1 and 0.4g.
50%mg - Impaired ability to visually fix or track objects
60%mg - Consistent degredation of long term performance even on low workload tasks.
80%mg - UK legal driving limit
150%mg - loss of self control (exactly what is meant by this wasn't defined)
200%mg - double vision, some loss of memory
400%mg - Loss of consciousness.
Three other notes were interesting...
(1) from a study where they tanked pilots up to 150%mg which was that afterwards when BAL had gone down to zero, visual impairment and disorientation could occur up to 7 hours afterwards.
(2) All the studies agreed that under high workload alcohol degraded pilots' performance much more than under low workload.
(3) Up until very high alcohol levels, virtually all the degredation was of judgment or ability to follow procedure, rather than of actual physical skills.
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OK ACW, but what if your 16th double brandy was at midnight and you were due to fly at 1000 hrs?
I have been out for dinner before with a guy who flies helichopters and he was helped into his car by his wife (who obviously drove). He was due to be flying at 0900 hrs and sure enough he was.
Scary really.
P.S Genghis, I am seriously impressed that you can write so much in such a short space of time or was it cut and pasted?!!!
I have been out for dinner before with a guy who flies helichopters and he was helped into his car by his wife (who obviously drove). He was due to be flying at 0900 hrs and sure enough he was.
Scary really.
P.S Genghis, I am seriously impressed that you can write so much in such a short space of time or was it cut and pasted?!!!
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its just a general guidline i was given. I dont drink lots so it doesnt affect me.
Alcohol affects different people in different ways - even your body build can affect they way your body handles alcohol. Personally i wouldn't drink before flying, just like i wouldn't drink and drive.
Genghis is saying 8 - i think im better sticking with 10!
Its personal judgement and discretion!
Alcohol affects different people in different ways - even your body build can affect they way your body handles alcohol. Personally i wouldn't drink before flying, just like i wouldn't drink and drive.
Genghis is saying 8 - i think im better sticking with 10!
Its personal judgement and discretion!
Not so N, but still FG
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Just popped back in from drinking on the roof and saw this. Once, when an early PPL stude, I flew with a bad hangover. The instructor later commented that I had seemed very focussed, attentive and quiet during the lesson until I gave him control and grabbed the chunder bag. He gave me an article to read, all about alcohol's effects on the inner ear, as well as upon judgment. He had a "nil the night before" rule, which is probably the best idea, but I admit that I might have a couple of drinks and still fly during the next day. No flying this weekend, so off now to get ratty peeshed.
Last edited by FNG; 11th Jun 2004 at 18:02.
Can't disagree with you ACW, if only to ensure 8 hours sleep since I suspect not enough sleep wll degrade your performance more than a small amount of residual blood alcohol will, regardless of the legalities.
The reason that I did the research which led to that post (and yes Monocock, I did cut and paste from something I had on my HD - I can type that fast, but not whilst making sense at the same time) is that I was getting worried about the number of crude rules of thumb doing the rounds, and just wanted to know the scientific reality of alcohol and flying. Took me about 3 hours in the Royal Aeronautical Society Library one day whilst waiting for an afternoon meeting.
I tend personally to take a similar view of all professional activities. Anybody working for me has never been left in doubt about my views of lunchtime drinking - bad decisions made in an engineering department can still kill people, they just take longer.
G
The reason that I did the research which led to that post (and yes Monocock, I did cut and paste from something I had on my HD - I can type that fast, but not whilst making sense at the same time) is that I was getting worried about the number of crude rules of thumb doing the rounds, and just wanted to know the scientific reality of alcohol and flying. Took me about 3 hours in the Royal Aeronautical Society Library one day whilst waiting for an afternoon meeting.
I tend personally to take a similar view of all professional activities. Anybody working for me has never been left in doubt about my views of lunchtime drinking - bad decisions made in an engineering department can still kill people, they just take longer.
G
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I was told a story by an EGMC employee about a pilot that arrived last year, who slurred the radio calls and could barely walk to the C room. Upon entering to check in, he was obviously the wrong end of a very long session. EGMC called plod. Plod called Gatwick for giudance. Gatwick advised that there was nothing that could be done and no action was taken. That's just not on.
The law has since changed and we are bound by the same rules as those party going heavy pilots. The law now allows no more than the equivalent of 0.5 pints of beer in your system at the time of flying.
In a way, I find this better. It means you can have a (note the singular) glass of wine with lunch in LFAT and be legal to fly out at 17:00.
I enjoy a pint *much* more than the next man, but there's a time and a place, and a method of transport home that suits the level of inebriation.
The law has since changed and we are bound by the same rules as those party going heavy pilots. The law now allows no more than the equivalent of 0.5 pints of beer in your system at the time of flying.
In a way, I find this better. It means you can have a (note the singular) glass of wine with lunch in LFAT and be legal to fly out at 17:00.
I enjoy a pint *much* more than the next man, but there's a time and a place, and a method of transport home that suits the level of inebriation.
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Leagle buddy of mine is in the process of publishing a paper on this post the new regs. I'll just say at this stage that it makes pretty worrying reading.
Her conclusion: Only way to guarantee no problems is NO aclohol the night before...
Her conclusion: Only way to guarantee no problems is NO aclohol the night before...
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At the risk of provoking some flak, I'm sure some of the worlds favourite airlines could tell us a few things about flightcrew who drink and fly......
Heads down chaps....
Heads down chaps....
Just a thought, does anybody have access to a suitable sim - it would be a fascinating exercise to try for ourselves. I wonder if perhaps Mac Smith at Popham would help?
G
G
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The new reg's basically preclude any sort of drinking of alcohol whilst undertaking the privilages of your licence, as an engineer, atco or pilot.
There is an alcohol limt, but I can't recall what it is, and it's so low it's not worth your while to risk it.
Additionally, the Plod no longer have to have "reasonable grounds" to enter your home/place of work to breathalise you, mere suspision or an anonymous report is sufficiant, and they can force entry if required.
The exact wording is contained within the Bill, a copy of which was given to me by my employer.
Given the amount of alcohol participation which I have seen in over 25 years in the industry, I find the new reg's not so much worrying, as common sense, and not before time either.
There is an alcohol limt, but I can't recall what it is, and it's so low it's not worth your while to risk it.
Additionally, the Plod no longer have to have "reasonable grounds" to enter your home/place of work to breathalise you, mere suspision or an anonymous report is sufficiant, and they can force entry if required.
The exact wording is contained within the Bill, a copy of which was given to me by my employer.
Given the amount of alcohol participation which I have seen in over 25 years in the industry, I find the new reg's not so much worrying, as common sense, and not before time either.
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The law relating to alochol and aviation is contained in the Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003.
There's a useful explanation and discussion here.
Zlin526
I hope you don't get any flak for that comment.
Far better if people treat it with the disdain it deserves.
There's a useful explanation and discussion here.
Zlin526
I hope you don't get any flak for that comment.
Far better if people treat it with the disdain it deserves.
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One of the car programmes, possibly Top Gear, did a really simple test a while ago. They had two groups of people & kept one awake for something like 36 hours, and kept the other group topped up with alcohol. I think the result was that the sleep-deprived group performed terribly - they were all over the road & couldn't hold speed. The drunk group were much better - fast reactions & good attention.
Personally I never drink the same day I'm flying. And wouldn't drink much the night before as it would prevent me from sleeping properly. Is it really worth the risk?
Personally I never drink the same day I'm flying. And wouldn't drink much the night before as it would prevent me from sleeping properly. Is it really worth the risk?
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I'm surprised you have to ask the question.
If you're not sure of the answer, keep the control locks in place.
A lunchtime drink at LFAT and then fly home later.......... 
You obviously hold your pax in high regard!
If you're not sure of the answer, keep the control locks in place.
A lunchtime drink at LFAT and then fly home later..........
You obviously hold your pax in high regard!
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Bar shaker
I know where you were coming from and I agree about the glass of wine at lunchtime too. If you are not flying for 5 hrs it is a lot less dangerous than a cigarette just before departure.....
I know where you were coming from and I agree about the glass of wine at lunchtime too. If you are not flying for 5 hrs it is a lot less dangerous than a cigarette just before departure.....
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Sharpshot
Yes, I have had a license for a year and since getting it have 'only' flown 148 hours.
But I cannot see how that is of any relevance and am still awaiting your explanation for twisting what I said and accusing me of having no regard for my passengers safety.
Monocock, I agree on the cigarette thing and Sharpshot will probably urinating in his plus fours to read that I am a smoker too.
Yes, I have had a license for a year and since getting it have 'only' flown 148 hours.
But I cannot see how that is of any relevance and am still awaiting your explanation for twisting what I said and accusing me of having no regard for my passengers safety.
Monocock, I agree on the cigarette thing and Sharpshot will probably urinating in his plus fours to read that I am a smoker too.