Drinking & Flying
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Farnham, Surrey
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National Characteristics....
In days gone by, on a NavEx back to the UK from Gibraltar, we landed to refuel our little RAF VC5 at Istres on the South of France, their equivalent of our Farnborough/Boscombe Down.
Quickly nipping in to the aircrew-feeder for more refuelling, none of us were surprised to see the French test-pilots gently quaffing a glass or two of vino prior to their second or third trip of the day.
Guess its in the genes, but no miltary aircrew in the UK forces would contemplate doing the same.
As an aside, I was rudely woken from my slumbers at something like 0215 one morning at Coningsby by the hooter for a no-notice generation of the mighty F4s. The previous night had finished no more than a few short hours before and as I wasn't scheduled to fly that day, had more than done justice to the cheap prices....
Feeling distinctly groggy and still way over the limit, I was nonetheless tasked to taxi and hold in an F4 with a chum who was in a similar condition. Ops knew of our situation and we were the last to be scambled having damn near run out of LOX as we tried to get back to near sobriety!
Wouldn't happen these days, would it??
Quickly nipping in to the aircrew-feeder for more refuelling, none of us were surprised to see the French test-pilots gently quaffing a glass or two of vino prior to their second or third trip of the day.
Guess its in the genes, but no miltary aircrew in the UK forces would contemplate doing the same.
As an aside, I was rudely woken from my slumbers at something like 0215 one morning at Coningsby by the hooter for a no-notice generation of the mighty F4s. The previous night had finished no more than a few short hours before and as I wasn't scheduled to fly that day, had more than done justice to the cheap prices....
Feeling distinctly groggy and still way over the limit, I was nonetheless tasked to taxi and hold in an F4 with a chum who was in a similar condition. Ops knew of our situation and we were the last to be scambled having damn near run out of LOX as we tried to get back to near sobriety!
Wouldn't happen these days, would it??
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I've flown twice with stonking hangovers.
Never ever again. It hurts and my performance was definitely below par. Whilst I was legal (8 hours before commencement of flight duties) I certainly wasn't ok.
Fatigue/tiredness has a big impact on performance too. This is where the focus of a lot of study and attention is now. FTL's are under threat from Europe.
I can see where Bar Shaker is coming from. 1 glass of wine ~5 hours before flight probably won't impair his/her flying ability in a normal situation. However, if there's an accident there'll be a blood test. If you're dead, there'll be an autopsy. If you're found to have alcohol in your blood then the insurance company won't pay. That's the real risk you're running. If you're happy with that, then fine. Also, the crash investigation team will conduct an enquiry. They will probably find out any way about the consumption of wine during that day.
I don't have any hard facts to hand but I am well aware that (for me) any consumption of alcohol will affect me that day. I won't risk drinking and riding my motorbike. Since the law is quite clear (for me) about drinking and flying I won't mix the two either. I fly for a living, I don't want to lose that.
Never ever again. It hurts and my performance was definitely below par. Whilst I was legal (8 hours before commencement of flight duties) I certainly wasn't ok.
Fatigue/tiredness has a big impact on performance too. This is where the focus of a lot of study and attention is now. FTL's are under threat from Europe.
I can see where Bar Shaker is coming from. 1 glass of wine ~5 hours before flight probably won't impair his/her flying ability in a normal situation. However, if there's an accident there'll be a blood test. If you're dead, there'll be an autopsy. If you're found to have alcohol in your blood then the insurance company won't pay. That's the real risk you're running. If you're happy with that, then fine. Also, the crash investigation team will conduct an enquiry. They will probably find out any way about the consumption of wine during that day.
I don't have any hard facts to hand but I am well aware that (for me) any consumption of alcohol will affect me that day. I won't risk drinking and riding my motorbike. Since the law is quite clear (for me) about drinking and flying I won't mix the two either. I fly for a living, I don't want to lose that.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I don't really want to get into a slanging match. The issue is not whether you'd be more likely to cause an accident five hours after one glass of wine. Personally I believe the additional risk is minimal, I wouldn't do it but there are obviously people out there who would.
The issue is actually whether you'll be able to dodge the book that is thrown at you if you do. Part of airmanship involves covering oneselfs back in case you screw up. Whether it's commercial or private avaition which you undertake, you'll still end up before the same judge and if the prosecution can hang something on you, they will.
Be careful out there.
The issue is actually whether you'll be able to dodge the book that is thrown at you if you do. Part of airmanship involves covering oneselfs back in case you screw up. Whether it's commercial or private avaition which you undertake, you'll still end up before the same judge and if the prosecution can hang something on you, they will.
Be careful out there.
Join Date: Mar 2003
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You won't find these calculations on your CRP-1 but here's a pretty good way of determining if you are ok to drive : -
For every unit of alcohol you intake your body will need 1 hour to process. For example if you intake 8 units you will be 'clean' in 9 hours. (You start the unit count down 1 hour after consuming the first unit)
Your body will still process the alcohol whilst you are drinking and you do not need to start the count down after you have finished drinking.
Now for men, if you work out how many units you have still in you after subtracting the number of hours, multiply this amount by 7. This will give you your breathalyser reading.
For example if you started drinking at 1200 and consumed 8 units of alcohol by 1700, start the unit countdown at 1300 and this gives you 4 hours. Subtract 4 (hours) from 8 (units) and this leaves 4. Multiply the 4 by 7 and you will get 28, which is what your breathalyser reading will be.
The multiplier for women is 11.
Although everyone is different this method is fairly accurate and is a good indicator of whether you are ok to drive. The legal limit for driving is 35, so 5 units in your system would make you borderline. I would suggest that for flying you should have a zero rating.
For every unit of alcohol you intake your body will need 1 hour to process. For example if you intake 8 units you will be 'clean' in 9 hours. (You start the unit count down 1 hour after consuming the first unit)
Your body will still process the alcohol whilst you are drinking and you do not need to start the count down after you have finished drinking.
Now for men, if you work out how many units you have still in you after subtracting the number of hours, multiply this amount by 7. This will give you your breathalyser reading.
For example if you started drinking at 1200 and consumed 8 units of alcohol by 1700, start the unit countdown at 1300 and this gives you 4 hours. Subtract 4 (hours) from 8 (units) and this leaves 4. Multiply the 4 by 7 and you will get 28, which is what your breathalyser reading will be.
The multiplier for women is 11.
Although everyone is different this method is fairly accurate and is a good indicator of whether you are ok to drive. The legal limit for driving is 35, so 5 units in your system would make you borderline. I would suggest that for flying you should have a zero rating.
With reference to the French attachment to wine, once when flying as a guest aboard an Atlantique on a maritime patrol sortie a few years ago I opened my baggie to find a small bottle of wine included. Wandering up to the flight deck I was even more astounded to see that even the pilots had wine included in their bag meals I was greeted with very puzzled expressions when I suggested that drinking might not be compatible with flying.........
Mind you, even though the quality of their on board catering was excellent, it wasn't quite the same as the steaks, beefburgers etc, and gallons of tea, that came flowing freely out of the galley on our own trusty jet MPA.
Mind you, even though the quality of their on board catering was excellent, it wasn't quite the same as the steaks, beefburgers etc, and gallons of tea, that came flowing freely out of the galley on our own trusty jet MPA.
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
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I recall that several years ago a PA31 met an unfortunate end in New Zealand.
The post mortem revealed that the pilot (the only person on board), had drunk approximately 2 pints of full strength tonic water prior to departure to quench his thirst, and the quinine content was a significantly contributary factor in the loss of control.
Poor lad should have added some gin perhaps.
The post mortem revealed that the pilot (the only person on board), had drunk approximately 2 pints of full strength tonic water prior to departure to quench his thirst, and the quinine content was a significantly contributary factor in the loss of control.
Poor lad should have added some gin perhaps.
Join Date: May 2003
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Human Factor
No slanging match will ensue, but you really must read the latest law on this. Its based, quite rightly, on the alcohol in your blood at the time of flying.
You are no longer able to go to those late night parties, banging back the G&Ts, in the knowledge that you will be legal 8 hours later, irrespective of how pissed you still are.
The quirk of this law, which what I was trying to point out in a reasoned manner, is that you can have a glass of wine or half a pint of beer with lunch and then fly that evening. Some/most/all/none may choose not to, but your flight will be legal as your body will have broken down the alcohol many hours ahead of your flight.
Read the Act. As a commercial pilot, your job may well depend on it.
No slanging match will ensue, but you really must read the latest law on this. Its based, quite rightly, on the alcohol in your blood at the time of flying.
You are no longer able to go to those late night parties, banging back the G&Ts, in the knowledge that you will be legal 8 hours later, irrespective of how pissed you still are.
The quirk of this law, which what I was trying to point out in a reasoned manner, is that you can have a glass of wine or half a pint of beer with lunch and then fly that evening. Some/most/all/none may choose not to, but your flight will be legal as your body will have broken down the alcohol many hours ahead of your flight.
Read the Act. As a commercial pilot, your job may well depend on it.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Sorry, been away for a bit. My company, in common with others, has more restrictive rules than the act. Trust me, I've read the act, inwardly digested it and there's considerably less than 20mg/100ml in my system! 
ATB.
ATB.
Last edited by Human Factor; 21st Jun 2004 at 22:18.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Wasn't there a case about 10 years ago of a guy who had flown from Elstree to Cambridge and back swigging vodka from a bottle before crashing.? Now that is too much alcohol.
Personally, if I am flying with 24hrs, I dont drink at all although I will confess to once having a training flight with a bit of a hang over - slow flight too. Stalls are not good in that state.
Personally, if I am flying with 24hrs, I dont drink at all although I will confess to once having a training flight with a bit of a hang over - slow flight too. Stalls are not good in that state.
