Police looking for crew after light aircraft crash
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Interstingly it is a requirement for military helicopters, when landing away from a normal landing site, to inform the local police. The reason is exactly as discussed above: to prevent the unnecessary involvement of emergency services.
In these days of simple mobile communications it would be a simple matter for anyone to inform the police if they landed in a field. It is, after all, not exactly normal, and it is perfectly understandable for a local resident to call the police when they see an aeroplane disappearing behind a nearby hedge that they know is not an airfield.
It could almost be classed as airmanship, common courtesy or indeed common sense.
In these days of simple mobile communications it would be a simple matter for anyone to inform the police if they landed in a field. It is, after all, not exactly normal, and it is perfectly understandable for a local resident to call the police when they see an aeroplane disappearing behind a nearby hedge that they know is not an airfield.
It could almost be classed as airmanship, common courtesy or indeed common sense.
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
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Question:
If a Mayday call was issued then wouldn't ATC have informed the emergency services anyway. If no call was made (why not!?) then I agree a courtesy call to the police would have been sensible!
If a Mayday call was issued then wouldn't ATC have informed the emergency services anyway. If no call was made (why not!?) then I agree a courtesy call to the police would have been sensible!
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Snigs,
Maybe no radio, maybe radio U/S, maybe no time - remember in an emergency 'communicate' is at the very bottom of the list of priorities. . . .
Best wishes,
BH
If no call was made (why not!?)
Best wishes,
BH
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Some time ago I visited a microlight strip north of London for a trial flight. My gf came along for a flight as well. Off she went with the instructor and left me basking in the sun, all alone at the airfield.
A visiting microlight landed and the pilot came over and we had a brief chat. Ten minutes later he took off and had an EFATO, disappearing into a wood (or so it appeared from my viewpoint).
What to do? I was on my own, I didn't know the lie of the land, didn't have any transport available, it might have taken me 10 minutes to run there and find him, and as far as I knew I was the only person who had witnessed it. If I had gone to find him and then discovered that he needed urgent medical attention I would then have had to run back to the airfield to make the call (I didn't have a mobile).
So I found the office phone in the portacabin and called the emergency services. I figured that they would send a police car or ambulance out to find him. Instead they said 'we'll send the helicopter'.
Just then the airfield owner arrived and asked me 'what the **** are you doing on the phone?' So I told him and he did his nut. He said that you don't call the emergency services for these things, as they happen 'all the time'. Apparently he didn't want the police helo annoying his neighbours.
So obviously I shouldn't have bothered dialling 999
Dave
PS Pilot was okay - he landed in a field behind the wood.
PPS The helo later landed at the field and the airfield owner apologised to the crew on my behalf, telling them within my earshot that I was a visitor to the airfield and basically didn't know my @rse from my elbow. They then all sat there drinking tea in the sun whilst studiously ignoring me.
So needless to say I decided that I would not be learning to fly at that particular airfield! 
A visiting microlight landed and the pilot came over and we had a brief chat. Ten minutes later he took off and had an EFATO, disappearing into a wood (or so it appeared from my viewpoint).
What to do? I was on my own, I didn't know the lie of the land, didn't have any transport available, it might have taken me 10 minutes to run there and find him, and as far as I knew I was the only person who had witnessed it. If I had gone to find him and then discovered that he needed urgent medical attention I would then have had to run back to the airfield to make the call (I didn't have a mobile).
So I found the office phone in the portacabin and called the emergency services. I figured that they would send a police car or ambulance out to find him. Instead they said 'we'll send the helicopter'.
Just then the airfield owner arrived and asked me 'what the **** are you doing on the phone?' So I told him and he did his nut. He said that you don't call the emergency services for these things, as they happen 'all the time'. Apparently he didn't want the police helo annoying his neighbours.
So obviously I shouldn't have bothered dialling 999
Dave
PS Pilot was okay - he landed in a field behind the wood.
PPS The helo later landed at the field and the airfield owner apologised to the crew on my behalf, telling them within my earshot that I was a visitor to the airfield and basically didn't know my @rse from my elbow. They then all sat there drinking tea in the sun whilst studiously ignoring me.
So needless to say I decided that I would not be learning to fly at that particular airfield!
So needless to say I decided that I would not be learning to fly at that particular airfield!
Do we need a "negative 999" number to ring to say "there hasn't been an accident"?
I'm sure that the helicopter crews involved in the above incidents wouldn't mind, though. They get to fly, they'd rather find two unhurt aviators right now than receive reports of two bodies found next morning, and they get to drink tea somewhere different (something many of us pay £100 a time to do).
Last edited by J.A.F.O.; 10th Jun 2004 at 18:44.
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ah, the sweet sound of pprune media bashing.
If this story is such a non event and yawn - why are you reading it and indeed posting a reply?
The BBC didn't decide to publish the reg, the police did. The media rarely overrule a police decision to put something into the public domain
R1200GS, isn't a worry how often you come across that kind of complacency at flying clubs? Staggering that they are now into a situation where they are happy to ignore an efato because it is routine!! First aid (by definition) is time critical...had the pilot been in trouble your call could have saved his life.
IR
If this story is such a non event and yawn - why are you reading it and indeed posting a reply?
The BBC didn't decide to publish the reg, the police did. The media rarely overrule a police decision to put something into the public domain
R1200GS, isn't a worry how often you come across that kind of complacency at flying clubs? Staggering that they are now into a situation where they are happy to ignore an efato because it is routine!! First aid (by definition) is time critical...had the pilot been in trouble your call could have saved his life.
IR
Not so N, but still FG
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R12, that bloke sounds like the typical knob-like GA business owner, unfortunately.
As for the two whose exploit led to this thread, couldn't they have left a note? "Not dead. Gone to pub".
As for the two whose exploit led to this thread, couldn't they have left a note? "Not dead. Gone to pub".
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R1200GS,
Here in the U.S. we would rather call out the emergency equipment and find out that it wasn't needed, than not to and find out that it was needed. What will happen if a civilian calls emergency service that they might have seen an airplane go down, prior to dispatching the emergency equipment, the dispatcher will contract the nearest Air Traffic Facility and ask if we had anyone go down, or have we received any reports of a downed aircraft.
My opinon you did the right thing!
Mike
NATCA FWA
Here in the U.S. we would rather call out the emergency equipment and find out that it wasn't needed, than not to and find out that it was needed. What will happen if a civilian calls emergency service that they might have seen an airplane go down, prior to dispatching the emergency equipment, the dispatcher will contract the nearest Air Traffic Facility and ask if we had anyone go down, or have we received any reports of a downed aircraft.
My opinon you did the right thing!
Mike
NATCA FWA
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R1200GS,
You DEFINITELY did the right thing.
OK, I know microlight pilots take engine failures less seriously than some of the rest of us. But how would you, or anyone else, have felt if you hadn't called anyone and the pilot had been injured or killed? I saw a microlight EFATO fairly recently; we called the emergency services and then dashed over to the field...he would have made it, but he'd hit a hidden ditch and crashed. He was hurt, though not that badly, but he was totally disorientated and didn't know where he was or what had happened. Not a great situation to be in, when everyone else is ignoring you because it's considered routine. That airfield owner is an idiot...and a few other things that I won't bother writing as they'll get censored.
You DEFINITELY did the right thing.
OK, I know microlight pilots take engine failures less seriously than some of the rest of us. But how would you, or anyone else, have felt if you hadn't called anyone and the pilot had been injured or killed? I saw a microlight EFATO fairly recently; we called the emergency services and then dashed over to the field...he would have made it, but he'd hit a hidden ditch and crashed. He was hurt, though not that badly, but he was totally disorientated and didn't know where he was or what had happened. Not a great situation to be in, when everyone else is ignoring you because it's considered routine. That airfield owner is an idiot...and a few other things that I won't bother writing as they'll get censored.
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Ever since the incident (about 4 years ago) I have mostly thought that I did the right thing, but there's always been a doubt in the back of my mind because of that airfield owner's attitude.
Sadly, I read about a fatal accident at this airfield recently. I did wonder whether they bothered calling the emergency services.
Sadly, I read about a fatal accident at this airfield recently. I did wonder whether they bothered calling the emergency services.
Not so N, but still FG
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I was wrong to describe him as just a typical GA knob, as this is unfair to the ordinary GA knobs. This one sounds like a menace. I think that you did the right thing in the circumstances you describe.
R1200GS - No doubt at all that you did the right thing and I don't believe that any of the emergency services would question your actions for one second.
FAW NATCA - Same here.
FAW NATCA - Same here.
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Never had to do it (yet) but I think a negative 999 call is definitely in order. Someone injured may actually need that Air Ambulance.
On another note, "never let the truth get in the way of a good story"
bs
On another note, "never let the truth get in the way of a good story"
bs
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I have a nasty feeling that the operator would deliver a b******ing for misusing the emergency number.
There is a slight problem in that if a 999 call has already been received then we will not turn back appliances on receipt of a second call stating that it was a forced landing. We may reduce the pre-determined attandance from 3 fire appliances, 1 rescue support vehicle and 1 foam tender to just one appliance but you can never be completely certain that the callers are not talking about completely seperate incidents. Unlikely but possible and you can imagine the outcry if we failed to attend or if, for whatever reason, the aeroplane later caught fire.
Having attended many an aircraft incident one of the biggest factors from the point of view of the emergency services is actually locating the incident. Many passers-by are completely unaware of their exact location and the message passed to us by D & D or ATC can be fairly vague, 4 miles north of X can be a very large area to search on the ground, especially if the aeroplane comes down some way from a road. An air support unit is definitely the answer but these are not always available due to other committments.
If I ever have to make a forced landing I am going to make sure that it is in a nice long field, next to a road, and beside a pub because a) emergency service personnel always know all the pubs and b) I think that I will be in need of a drink!!!
I once attended a PA28 that had lost its propellor over Junction 10 of the M4. The pilot carried out a very nice forced landing into a field alongside the motorway which produced multiple calls to the emergency services. I would say that almost 50% of the callers could not give their exact location, with the vast majority not knowing which junction they were between or which direction they were travelling in eg. east or west bound. At least two callers even gave the wrong motorway!
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ah the police, what would we do without them.
a club member had a bad crash after an engine failure, hitting power lines and falling into a field. he was thrown out of the a/c.
when he came to, his foot was up by his shoulder. there was a poilceman with a bicycle standing over him.
"Excuse me sir, did you come out if that aircraft" he said
a club member had a bad crash after an engine failure, hitting power lines and falling into a field. he was thrown out of the a/c.
when he came to, his foot was up by his shoulder. there was a poilceman with a bicycle standing over him.
"Excuse me sir, did you come out if that aircraft" he said
I have a nasty feeling that the operator would deliver a b******ing for misusing the emergency number.
I hope now that you're getting an idea of just how wrong you are. Try to imagine that you are the calltaker in whichever emergency service control room you get through to, what would you rather do - listen to calls from 18 well meaning members of the public with no idea of where they are or what is wrong with the aircraft and then try to construct a coherent story from their wildly different reports or get the facts?
