PA23 going spare anywhere ?
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Join Date: May 2003
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PA23 going spare anywhere ?
Hi Guys/Gals,
I'm thinking of upgrading the current aerial jalopy, and have been looking for something which is quick enough and carries enough load to support the somewhat generous FullyFlapped frame and a fairly extensive loading of FullyFlap-lets and -Flap-ettes.
Since something with two donkeys is of interest, and I don't want to wait for a reasonably priced DA42 Twin, a search of older things-with-wings has indicated that a PA23 Aztec (later models) just about fits the bill (although why they couldn't put two doors in the front of the things is a mystery to us Cessna drivers ...)
So : does anyone know where there's a jolly super specimen for sale or lease, and do any of you experienced types have any good or bad comments ref the Aztec for me to chew upon ?
Much obliged as always,
FF
I'm thinking of upgrading the current aerial jalopy, and have been looking for something which is quick enough and carries enough load to support the somewhat generous FullyFlapped frame and a fairly extensive loading of FullyFlap-lets and -Flap-ettes.
Since something with two donkeys is of interest, and I don't want to wait for a reasonably priced DA42 Twin, a search of older things-with-wings has indicated that a PA23 Aztec (later models) just about fits the bill (although why they couldn't put two doors in the front of the things is a mystery to us Cessna drivers ...)
So : does anyone know where there's a jolly super specimen for sale or lease, and do any of you experienced types have any good or bad comments ref the Aztec for me to chew upon ?
Much obliged as always,
FF
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Aztecs are very capable machines but the price you pay is fuel guzzling and recurring repair bills as they are now all getting on a bit.
They do of course attract route charges for IFR flying.
Timothy has one and raves about them.
FD
They do of course attract route charges for IFR flying.
Timothy has one and raves about them.
FD
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As always it is easy to buy a dog and most of them fall into this catorgory , there are a few very nice examples but they are all in the hands of people who have spent a lot of money to maintain them and so it is unlikely that you would get your hands on one of these.
My advice to you is to look for a structualy sound dog !. Idealy the engines will be just approaching overhaul and the paint , avionics , interior and de-ice boots will all be very well worn.
The buget will look a little like this:-
Engine/prop overhaul £ 35,000.
Paint / de-ice boots £ 15,000.
Avionics £ 35, 000 ( GPS ,8.33 DME , ADF , HSI/RMI )
Interior trim £ 8,000.
Nif-naf & trivia £ 5,000.
As you can see not cheap but it will leave you with an aircraft that will give years of good service , perhaps this is why old twins can be had for what look like bargin prices !.
My advice to you is to look for a structualy sound dog !. Idealy the engines will be just approaching overhaul and the paint , avionics , interior and de-ice boots will all be very well worn.
The buget will look a little like this:-
Engine/prop overhaul £ 35,000.
Paint / de-ice boots £ 15,000.
Avionics £ 35, 000 ( GPS ,8.33 DME , ADF , HSI/RMI )
Interior trim £ 8,000.
Nif-naf & trivia £ 5,000.
As you can see not cheap but it will leave you with an aircraft that will give years of good service , perhaps this is why old twins can be had for what look like bargin prices !.
)Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
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Did someone call?
Yes, I love my Aztec to bits. It has the best combination of load-hauling, speed, safety, comfort and STOL capability of any aircraft I have flown (which is a fair few.)
It can take 6 people, full fuel and a modest amount of baggage, and, even in that configuration goes up very nicely on one engine. The baggage space is cavernous, and I go to trade shows with masses of stuff and the Aztec just swallows it up.
I operate mine regularly out of a 470m runway. It is stable, easy to fly and pretty much viceless. Even at surprisingly slow speeds it handles safely. The wing drop at the stall is very docile, and dealing with an EFATO is very easy, compared to other light twins. Crosswind capability is superb. I have taken 35kts without a murmur and I daresay it could manage more, if handled judiciously.
Cruise speed obviously depends on power, but I can get 170kts TAS, burning about 90 l/hr, or 160 at 80 l/hr. Performance depends on the model. The "E" (which I have) is the fastest. The later "F" has a longer range, but is a little slower.
There are still very early models around. Be careful not to confuse the "A" with the Apache, which is a very different beastie. Make sure that you get the 250hp engines. (The PA23 range includes 180, 210 and 250hp models).
There is loads of panel space, and avionics rack space, and the Aztec is an ideal IFR aircraft, far superior to the Seneca or any of the littlies (Cougar, Duchess, Seminole etc). Of what I have flown it is more comparable to the PA31s in terms of stability and running on rails.
The downsides are the awkward access (having to climb on the wing, just one door and the people in the back having to squeeze through) and only having one engine powered hydraulics pump, which makes the left engine really critical! The "F" did have a second pump as an option, and that, IMO, is worth a lot.
They are not cheap to run. As an indication, mine is worth about £30,000 and I probably spend nearly that much annually to do 150 hours (this is total including insurance, hangarage and all the bits that crop up.) Spares are beginning to get a little more difficult to find, but so far, so good.
I know of someone rebuilding a "B" at Biggin, who might appreciate some financial help, and someone in Bath who wants to buy one and might appreciate a share. PM me if you want to contact either.
Singh (Falcon) at Biggin knows the Aztec like the back of his hand and would be an good engineer.
Geoffrey Boot wrote an article in Flyer about two months ago all about Aztecs. He also loved them, but said that they are ugly (he did at least apologise to me when he said it.) They are not pretty in the way the 310 is, but they are very effective performers and I warmly recommend them.
Yes, I love my Aztec to bits. It has the best combination of load-hauling, speed, safety, comfort and STOL capability of any aircraft I have flown (which is a fair few.)
It can take 6 people, full fuel and a modest amount of baggage, and, even in that configuration goes up very nicely on one engine. The baggage space is cavernous, and I go to trade shows with masses of stuff and the Aztec just swallows it up.
I operate mine regularly out of a 470m runway. It is stable, easy to fly and pretty much viceless. Even at surprisingly slow speeds it handles safely. The wing drop at the stall is very docile, and dealing with an EFATO is very easy, compared to other light twins. Crosswind capability is superb. I have taken 35kts without a murmur and I daresay it could manage more, if handled judiciously.
Cruise speed obviously depends on power, but I can get 170kts TAS, burning about 90 l/hr, or 160 at 80 l/hr. Performance depends on the model. The "E" (which I have) is the fastest. The later "F" has a longer range, but is a little slower.
There are still very early models around. Be careful not to confuse the "A" with the Apache, which is a very different beastie. Make sure that you get the 250hp engines. (The PA23 range includes 180, 210 and 250hp models).
There is loads of panel space, and avionics rack space, and the Aztec is an ideal IFR aircraft, far superior to the Seneca or any of the littlies (Cougar, Duchess, Seminole etc). Of what I have flown it is more comparable to the PA31s in terms of stability and running on rails.
The downsides are the awkward access (having to climb on the wing, just one door and the people in the back having to squeeze through) and only having one engine powered hydraulics pump, which makes the left engine really critical! The "F" did have a second pump as an option, and that, IMO, is worth a lot.
They are not cheap to run. As an indication, mine is worth about £30,000 and I probably spend nearly that much annually to do 150 hours (this is total including insurance, hangarage and all the bits that crop up.) Spares are beginning to get a little more difficult to find, but so far, so good.
I know of someone rebuilding a "B" at Biggin, who might appreciate some financial help, and someone in Bath who wants to buy one and might appreciate a share. PM me if you want to contact either.
Singh (Falcon) at Biggin knows the Aztec like the back of his hand and would be an good engineer.
Geoffrey Boot wrote an article in Flyer about two months ago all about Aztecs. He also loved them, but said that they are ugly (he did at least apologise to me when he said it.) They are not pretty in the way the 310 is, but they are very effective performers and I warmly recommend them.
