What's Wrong With Kemble Then?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 123
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From: ENGLAND
Atlantique
Chinese whispers are rife. There was a rumour that the classics were going to little rissington a while ago. I don't really think that Kemble is really equipped for the likes of atlantique. Can you imagine the strop created by an oh my god o'clock callout! besides, believe they are concentrating on passenger work from now on, -hence they've just sacked all their cabin crew!?
Might visit more often myself if the red baron jagdstaffel aircraft were cheaper! £180 smackers an hour for a dog. Obviously the guys at the RAFVR recurrency training unit are not getting paid enough at B'med eh Andy!
Might visit more often myself if the red baron jagdstaffel aircraft were cheaper! £180 smackers an hour for a dog. Obviously the guys at the RAFVR recurrency training unit are not getting paid enough at B'med eh Andy!
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 32
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From: kemble
cheeky monkey!
As it happens, I make 5/8ths of f@@@-all at UH!
The Bulldog rate is calculated such that the business ends up in profit, such that it may continue as a going concern.
None of the instructors are in it to get rich - rather some fun flying for ex-mil dudes who enjoy stick and rudder flying and all feel they have something to give back to the flying community.
The Dog is thirstier than a PA28, has a nice big window as well as a warm cuddly QFI next to you! He (or she) then guides you through your aerobatics, spinning, upset recoveries, advanced manoeuvres, formation or VP conversion, or indeed anything else that you may wish to contemplate.
I agree - you can always go to your local flying club and spend £130/hour, and if this is the limit of depth of pocket, I urge you to do so. Any flying is fun - at UH we just have more of it.
I started the thread because I have noticed a drop off in business both at the airfield and at AV8 - especially on beautiful sunny days. I am there pretty much every day when I am not at work and I am not the only local resident to have remarked upon it.
Nevertheless, my concerns are eased, as the majority of posters seem to be happy with the sitch.
Please come to the airshow on June 20th - it promises to be a belter of a day - I get to fly thrice.
Good banter tho Tonka
The Bulldog rate is calculated such that the business ends up in profit, such that it may continue as a going concern.
None of the instructors are in it to get rich - rather some fun flying for ex-mil dudes who enjoy stick and rudder flying and all feel they have something to give back to the flying community.
The Dog is thirstier than a PA28, has a nice big window as well as a warm cuddly QFI next to you! He (or she) then guides you through your aerobatics, spinning, upset recoveries, advanced manoeuvres, formation or VP conversion, or indeed anything else that you may wish to contemplate.
I agree - you can always go to your local flying club and spend £130/hour, and if this is the limit of depth of pocket, I urge you to do so. Any flying is fun - at UH we just have more of it.
I started the thread because I have noticed a drop off in business both at the airfield and at AV8 - especially on beautiful sunny days. I am there pretty much every day when I am not at work and I am not the only local resident to have remarked upon it.
Nevertheless, my concerns are eased, as the majority of posters seem to be happy with the sitch.
Please come to the airshow on June 20th - it promises to be a belter of a day - I get to fly thrice.
Good banter tho Tonka
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
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From: London, UK
The Kemble landing fees don't sound that drastic if the facilities have improved as much as is rumoured. The Bulldog rate sounds somewhat higher than average, as it's more than the going rate for Cap 10 dual in southern England (Sherburn does that for 50p in the old money, but that's in the frozen north), and Dogs can be rented for under £100 an hour solo if you know where to go, but perhaps the reality is that most places charge too little and, if instructors get slightly better paid and aviation businesses can make some profit, why not?
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,878
Likes: 83
From: UK
...now I'll admit to being a bit vertically challenged, but why are the urinals so high in the Gents at AV8!!!!
Yes, rates have gone up, but with what a lot of us pay to fly in the UK, an extra fiver isn't really a big deal (we could easily spend twice that having to go around and fly an extra circuit!).
Not-withstanding having to stand on tip-toes in the Gents, had a very pleasant visit a couple of months back, and a scrummy lunch on the AV8 decking.
No Hunters flying that day though
Yes, rates have gone up, but with what a lot of us pay to fly in the UK, an extra fiver isn't really a big deal (we could easily spend twice that having to go around and fly an extra circuit!).
Not-withstanding having to stand on tip-toes in the Gents, had a very pleasant visit a couple of months back, and a scrummy lunch on the AV8 decking.
No Hunters flying that day though
Last edited by Wycombe; 15th June 2004 at 12:07.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 323
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From: Ashwell, U.K.
I'm surprised more airfields don't offer "associate membership" like they do at Old Buckenham. The landing fee is around £12 for a single which isn't too bad as the facilities are very good and the refurbished cafe is excellent. However for £20 you can join as an associate and have as many landings as you like in a calendar year. Only 2 landings and you're ahead of the game. As this is my favourite "£100 coffee" flight it works well for me and judging by the other posters in this thread Kemble gets a lot of return visitors as well so it could work there as well.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 188
Likes: 1
From: Goodwood
Tonka, FNG
Like the "red baron jagdstaffel aircraft " comment very much indeed!
Would only point out that UH do include very thorough multi-media briefs on all trips to ensure that the value of the precious time on the air is maximised, as well as the loan of good 'chutes, kit and full ANR comms.
Also, unlike the ex-RAF Bulldogs around which are right at the end of their fatigue lives, the UH a/c are in great condition only half-way through their useful lives, and have fully refubished interiors and new avionics - very tasty indeed!
Like the "red baron jagdstaffel aircraft " comment very much indeed!
Would only point out that UH do include very thorough multi-media briefs on all trips to ensure that the value of the precious time on the air is maximised, as well as the loan of good 'chutes, kit and full ANR comms.
Also, unlike the ex-RAF Bulldogs around which are right at the end of their fatigue lives, the UH a/c are in great condition only half-way through their useful lives, and have fully refubished interiors and new avionics - very tasty indeed!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: ENGLAND
Kemble and UH
Well Andy thats 5/8ths of f@@@-all more than I do! Whose the girlie instructor then! -can't believe shes warmer than you chaps! Went to Kemble and saw your thrice and sharp it looked to! Greeners I fully understand where the £70 odd extra comes from and value it is I am sure. Its probably my lack of improving salary that makes me think twice. I shall just ask for a pay rise and save up, then come and have a look see. Is high rotational spinning on the agenda? look after yourselves!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 253
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From: the north
Re landing fees. Given that aviators can and usually are quite put out to pay these and that they never really make a big contribution to an airfields income ( GA I'm talking) it seems to me that if airfields budgetted to make their money out of a/c hangared/based there, they could all charge nil landing fees to visitors which might encourage more aviation and more visitors to buy fuel, lunch and whatever else is on offer.
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,777
Likes: 9
From: Blighty
At one airfield in which I was involved with the running of, we scrapped landings fees, lowered the cost of the fuel and bought a good coffee machine. We made more money! Aircraft owners are strange economists. If they can see a way of saving a couple of quid - they will do, depite having spent many times more on getting to your airfield. They are also natural moaners. "Do you know what I paid at Kemble last week!" overheard in the club bar will put off any prospective customers.
PS. You should have seen what we charged for the coffee!
PS. You should have seen what we charged for the coffee!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 253
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From: the north
I assume that most GA airfields really only exist for their home based aircraft and that shrewd economics would suggest that the fixed users pay the fixed costs ie through Hangarage and parking.
What tempts visitors - is it the desire to subsidise the home based users or the great coffee, meals, fuel ?
Wonder how Tesco's would get on if they charged an entrance fee ?
What tempts visitors - is it the desire to subsidise the home based users or the great coffee, meals, fuel ?
Wonder how Tesco's would get on if they charged an entrance fee ?
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
If you made the based aircraft pay for all of the services then why should they want to tempt visitors?
After all if the locals are funding the place then they should have the right to keep it to themselves!!!
I know if I was fully funding my own airfield then I would not want any free loading oiks landling on my nice shiny airfield! In fact as I operate for a lot of the time from a farm strip this could be the case, bit the owner is happy to accept visitors and jsut asks they make a contribution to our grass cutting.
You have a very strange idea of economics bing boy.
After all if the locals are funding the place then they should have the right to keep it to themselves!!!
I know if I was fully funding my own airfield then I would not want any free loading oiks landling on my nice shiny airfield! In fact as I operate for a lot of the time from a farm strip this could be the case, bit the owner is happy to accept visitors and jsut asks they make a contribution to our grass cutting.
You have a very strange idea of economics bing boy.
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,460
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From: London
I used to be a regular at Kemble for lunch, but when they put up the twin landing fee to an unreasonable level I stopped going.
I spoke to the airfield manager who was terribly reasonable, said they didn't want to put me off coming, would revisit the landing fees for twins and call me back.
That was months ago and needless to say he hasn't.
Which is fine, of course, because I rarely need to go there, it was just a nice place for a day out and lunch, and now I go to Old Buck, where I have bought an annual landing card for £20 and can go and have lunch as often as I like.
I spoke to the airfield manager who was terribly reasonable, said they didn't want to put me off coming, would revisit the landing fees for twins and call me back.
That was months ago and needless to say he hasn't.
Which is fine, of course, because I rarely need to go there, it was just a nice place for a day out and lunch, and now I go to Old Buck, where I have bought an annual landing card for £20 and can go and have lunch as often as I like.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Perhaps the answer lies somewhere between bingoboy & bose-x.
Keep the visitor landing fees at a level where the amount of traffic is at a maximum consistent with not attracting so many visitors that it adversely affects the home-based users.
That way the home-based users benefit from the visitors increasing the turnover on based facilities like fuel, food, maintenance etc.
If you reduce the number of visitors by increasing landing fees you not only risk hitting your income from landing fees, you also reduce the turnover of the based businesses, and ultimately the rent they are willing to pay you and the level of on-airfield services for the based pilots.
Mike
Keep the visitor landing fees at a level where the amount of traffic is at a maximum consistent with not attracting so many visitors that it adversely affects the home-based users.
That way the home-based users benefit from the visitors increasing the turnover on based facilities like fuel, food, maintenance etc.
If you reduce the number of visitors by increasing landing fees you not only risk hitting your income from landing fees, you also reduce the turnover of the based businesses, and ultimately the rent they are willing to pay you and the level of on-airfield services for the based pilots.
Mike
