DIY Safety Pilot Course
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: South Yorkshire
DIY Safety Pilot Course
My brother has expressed an interest in some more trips with me over the summer after a spectacular trip from Derby to Caernarfon last summer. But as a generally nervous passenger in anything mechnical, he has asked what happens to him, if anything happens to me?!
Having thought about this I am inclided to give him a home-grown safety pilot course. So I have set about thinking what would be the minimum he would have to do to stand a good chance of surviving any incapacitation on my part.
I think I could training him on how to:
1. How to make a MAYDAY call. (Listen out / PTT)
He doesn't know the phonetic alphabet so I will suggest his call is
"MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY, Callsign unknown , {Aircraft Type} with Incapacitated Pilot, request immediate assistance"
(I'll write this down for him on his sick-bag before we set off so he knows the aircraft type)
2. How to change frequency on the active radio to 121.5, if he gets no replies after three calls.
3. What and where are the vital instruments he might be asked about; i.e.
ASI, RPM, Altimeter + Subscale, Fuel Guages, DI/Compass
4. Controls he might need to operate:
Brakes, Carb Heat, Throttle
5. Instructions to fly up and down a line feature while calling for help
He has some flight time as an Air Cadet and could probably manage straight & level, and gentle turns. Anything else would have to be explained to him over the radio.
Has anyone else considered this scenario and come up with their own 'Pinch-hitter' course or advice?
I realise I cannot let him use the radio during this 'training'.
The hope is that if he can call for help, he can be located, a shepperd aircraft can be sent for him to follow to an airfield with fire cover (+ ambulance for me!) and he can be talked down. We only fly in low performance single-engined aircraft.
Having thought about this I am inclided to give him a home-grown safety pilot course. So I have set about thinking what would be the minimum he would have to do to stand a good chance of surviving any incapacitation on my part.
I think I could training him on how to:
1. How to make a MAYDAY call. (Listen out / PTT)
He doesn't know the phonetic alphabet so I will suggest his call is
"MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY, Callsign unknown , {Aircraft Type} with Incapacitated Pilot, request immediate assistance"
(I'll write this down for him on his sick-bag before we set off so he knows the aircraft type)
2. How to change frequency on the active radio to 121.5, if he gets no replies after three calls.
3. What and where are the vital instruments he might be asked about; i.e.
ASI, RPM, Altimeter + Subscale, Fuel Guages, DI/Compass
4. Controls he might need to operate:
Brakes, Carb Heat, Throttle
5. Instructions to fly up and down a line feature while calling for help
He has some flight time as an Air Cadet and could probably manage straight & level, and gentle turns. Anything else would have to be explained to him over the radio.
Has anyone else considered this scenario and come up with their own 'Pinch-hitter' course or advice?
I realise I cannot let him use the radio during this 'training'.
The hope is that if he can call for help, he can be located, a shepperd aircraft can be sent for him to follow to an airfield with fire cover (+ ambulance for me!) and he can be talked down. We only fly in low performance single-engined aircraft.
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Europe
T,
There will be plenty of instructors who would be happy to take your brother up for a few hours or a whole safety pilot course (usually 15 hours)
A lot better than letting family dynamics get in the way and spoil what could work out very well for both of you in the long run!
My wife has been threatening to do such a course for the purpose you describe (and to cash in on the life insurance policies) and although I have some instructional experience I would not in a million years teach her myself.
FD
There will be plenty of instructors who would be happy to take your brother up for a few hours or a whole safety pilot course (usually 15 hours)
A lot better than letting family dynamics get in the way and spoil what could work out very well for both of you in the long run!
My wife has been threatening to do such a course for the purpose you describe (and to cash in on the life insurance policies) and although I have some instructional experience I would not in a million years teach her myself.
FD
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Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
I think that these courses are an excellent idea, and quite a few schools (or individual instructors) offer them.
But, I'm of the view that I'd prefer that flying instructors wouldn't stick their nose into my business of certifying aeroplanes, so it would be good manners on my part to not try teaching other people how to fly without proper training.
Hire a professional.
G
But, I'm of the view that I'd prefer that flying instructors wouldn't stick their nose into my business of certifying aeroplanes, so it would be good manners on my part to not try teaching other people how to fly without proper training.
Hire a professional.
G
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: UK
Does anyone know how successful these safety courses are? How many are actually completed? I heard somewhere that, as everyone who goes on one of these courses has access to an aircraft, that many get the bug and switch to a PPL course otherwise they give up before finishing. Is this true?
140
140
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From: Dublin
Guys,
I think you might be missing the point here. Tacpot said that his brother was interested in comming on a couple of trips with him over the summer. A 15 hour safety pilot course (at what stg£100 per hours?) would seem a bit over the top for a couple of trips. How many trips are we talking about here? I suspect it's something of the order of 4 or 5 we are talking about. A 15 hours course would be a bit over the top for that!
Tacpot is not talking about teaching his brother to fly; rather he is talking about showing him how to ask the outside world for help, and how not to lose control of the plane during the time it takes to get help. There was no mention whatsoever in his post about his brother learning to land the aircraft. Clearly all he wants is his brother to be able hold things together long enough to ask for help. This would seem like a very wise course of action for someone taking a couple of trips with him.
In my opinion what he has described sounds very sensible.
If I was to tell anyone taking a couple of trips with me over the summer that they sould do a 15 hours course first, I don't think too many would bother comming at all, especially when then realise the cost of that course!
If someone invited me to go sailing with them, and then told me I should do a 15 hour sailing course first, in case they got a heart attack, I don't think the sailing trip would be worth the effort!
dp
I think you might be missing the point here. Tacpot said that his brother was interested in comming on a couple of trips with him over the summer. A 15 hour safety pilot course (at what stg£100 per hours?) would seem a bit over the top for a couple of trips. How many trips are we talking about here? I suspect it's something of the order of 4 or 5 we are talking about. A 15 hours course would be a bit over the top for that!
Tacpot is not talking about teaching his brother to fly; rather he is talking about showing him how to ask the outside world for help, and how not to lose control of the plane during the time it takes to get help. There was no mention whatsoever in his post about his brother learning to land the aircraft. Clearly all he wants is his brother to be able hold things together long enough to ask for help. This would seem like a very wise course of action for someone taking a couple of trips with him.
In my opinion what he has described sounds very sensible.
If I was to tell anyone taking a couple of trips with me over the summer that they sould do a 15 hours course first, I don't think too many would bother comming at all, especially when then realise the cost of that course!
If someone invited me to go sailing with them, and then told me I should do a 15 hour sailing course first, in case they got a heart attack, I don't think the sailing trip would be worth the effort!
dp
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Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
I believe a professional is defined as somebody who is routinely paid to do a job. In this context, I'd define that as somebody with a current FI rating.
I agree that the "syllabus" tacpot proposes is broadly sensible (I'd add how to follow a heading and do something resembling a survivable landing too perhaps) and that 15 hours would be far more than necessary.
But nonetheless I do feel that instruction should be done by qualified instructors, that's what they're for.
G
I agree that the "syllabus" tacpot proposes is broadly sensible (I'd add how to follow a heading and do something resembling a survivable landing too perhaps) and that 15 hours would be far more than necessary.
But nonetheless I do feel that instruction should be done by qualified instructors, that's what they're for.
G
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Almost Scotland
Hmm, not meaning to take this thread off the topic, and personally I think its a good idea for passengers to have enough knowledge to hold things together whilst asking for help. There may be several ways of achieving this.
However, I think there is a difference to be recognised between 'a professional' who gets paid to do a job as distinct from an amateur, and 'a member of a profession', i.e. a person who signs up to adhere to the recognised self-regulation of standards for the practice of a profession, and to be subject to its disciplinary code.
However, I think there is a difference to be recognised between 'a professional' who gets paid to do a job as distinct from an amateur, and 'a member of a profession', i.e. a person who signs up to adhere to the recognised self-regulation of standards for the practice of a profession, and to be subject to its disciplinary code.
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
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From: London, UK
You are quite right, my dear Doctor. There are, on one view, really only three professions: one is yours, the other is mine, and the third is the exception to the rule, as it is unregulated (owing, perhaps, to its great age). I would add engineers to the list, but not management consultants, golf club managers, starbucks operatives [ie the ones with the degrees in Golf Club Management] etc.
I agree with Genghis that instruction is best left to instructors, but if I had a regular passenger I wouldn't see anything wrong in showing him or her those basics referred to above. I would certainly leave to an instructor any attempt to teach landing.
I agree with Genghis that instruction is best left to instructors, but if I had a regular passenger I wouldn't see anything wrong in showing him or her those basics referred to above. I would certainly leave to an instructor any attempt to teach landing.
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Midlands
As an amateur pilot, I have taken all my regular passengers through the use of the radio, how to make a mayday call, flying straight and level on a given heading and climb and decent to a set altitude. I view it as an extension of my pre flight brief and consider it may save my life let alone theirs. I would not teach landing or taking off as I am not an instructor.
Rod1
Rod1
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: South Yorkshire
Many thanks for the feedback.
dublinpilot identified my intentions correctly.
It occured to me that I had ommitted setting any transponder to 7700.
I would expect my brother to be able to identify a transponder anywhere on the panel, and that it would be simple for him to set 7700 - he understands the basic function of a transponder from previous trips, but perhaps doesn't realise that it could help bring assistance to him more quickly.
I will not be teaching him to land, as I agree flying training is best left to Instructors. What I will do is reassure him that if he calls for help, he will be helped to make a survivable landing, and that it is feasible!
I was planning to work the identifcation of the instruments and controls into my pre-flight brief as rod1 has suggested.
dublinpilot identified my intentions correctly.
It occured to me that I had ommitted setting any transponder to 7700.
I would expect my brother to be able to identify a transponder anywhere on the panel, and that it would be simple for him to set 7700 - he understands the basic function of a transponder from previous trips, but perhaps doesn't realise that it could help bring assistance to him more quickly.
I will not be teaching him to land, as I agree flying training is best left to Instructors. What I will do is reassure him that if he calls for help, he will be helped to make a survivable landing, and that it is feasible!
I was planning to work the identifcation of the instruments and controls into my pre-flight brief as rod1 has suggested.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: England
There is a AOPA syllabus for the safety pilot's course (although it is called something strange now) and Mrs QNH 1013 has done this course - in a taildragger. From memory it was about 10 hours groundschool and 8 hours in the aircraft.
I was very impressed with what she learnt and by the end of the course she could talk to D&D, navigate (with their help) back to an airfield and land the aircraft safely. Most importantly she could control the aircraft without getting it out of balance or stalling it, and fly it at a height and direction of her choosing. Not bad for an aircraft with only a mag compass and no gyro instruments.
By the way, I was not an instructor at the time, so it wasn't me who taught her ! She wrote up the details of the final assessment in this very forum at the time.
I was very impressed with what she learnt and by the end of the course she could talk to D&D, navigate (with their help) back to an airfield and land the aircraft safely. Most importantly she could control the aircraft without getting it out of balance or stalling it, and fly it at a height and direction of her choosing. Not bad for an aircraft with only a mag compass and no gyro instruments.
By the way, I was not an instructor at the time, so it wasn't me who taught her ! She wrote up the details of the final assessment in this very forum at the time.
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Io
