Run! It's the Spotter Police
Not so N, but still FG
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Run! It's the Spotter Police!
If you thought that Monocock's disagreeable experience at Popham was bad, just wait until you get your collar felt by the Official Spotter Police:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3682329.stm
Imagine spotters armed with ID cards and licensed to commit jobsworthery. All they need now is for someone to give them hats. They've already got the clipboards.
I'm not really sure why spotters are referred to as "aviation enthusiasts", as in my, thankfully limited, experience of them, they are interested only in the letters/numbers and have zero interest in the machines themselves.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3682329.stm
Imagine spotters armed with ID cards and licensed to commit jobsworthery. All they need now is for someone to give them hats. They've already got the clipboards.
I'm not really sure why spotters are referred to as "aviation enthusiasts", as in my, thankfully limited, experience of them, they are interested only in the letters/numbers and have zero interest in the machines themselves.
Last edited by FNG; 4th May 2004 at 14:31.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chichester, UK
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not really sure why spotters are referred to as "aviation enthusiasts", as in my, thankfully limited, experience of them, they are interested only in the letters/numbers and have zero interest in the machines themselves.
Last edited by Evo; 4th May 2004 at 13:39.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sussex
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know their is a tolerance of spotters in the GA community! I disagree however. How anyone can make a day out of sitting on the perimiter road at Shoreham airport, with a radio/flask and notebook is beyond me!
I pay £14 for the privelege of @rsing up my landings there, I should be allowed to do it in private!
I pay £14 for the privelege of @rsing up my landings there, I should be allowed to do it in private!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: England
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a similar experience with a militant fundamentalist spotter many years ago.
I'd flown a JP Mk5 to an airshow at Brize Norton for a static display. I'm leaning agaist the railing with my student, answering the same questions of: "How fast does it go mister?" "How high will it go?" etc, etc. When some middle aged fat bloke in a combat jacket covered wit badges sidles up and leans on the opposite side of the fence. Alfter listening to a few of the kids' questions he gives me a knowing look and says, "Of course I remember these when they were camouflaged."
"Sorry mate," I reply, "your thinking of the Strikemaster. This is a Jet Provost Mk5"
"Yes son," he says, "they used to be called Strikemasters. The Jet Provost is what the RAF calls them."
"I think you'll find it's the other way round."
"No, I think you'll find I'm right."
I turn to my stude and ask him to bring the F700 over. He does, and I show it to the spotter.
"Look, it says here JET PROVOST T Mk5. Satisfied?"
He wasn't.
"They've obviously issued a new log book when it was converted."
I'm losing this one. "The Strikemaster is basically the same airframe but with a bigger engine and hard points on the wing." I say with an air of resignation.
"I think you'll find that this has got the attachment holes for the hard points." Says the spotter with an air of authority.
I turn to my stude, "Rich, let this gentleman over the fence and go and show him the underside of the wing." This he does whilst I entertain the now groing crowd that has formed to watch the argument unfold. Suddenly, from under the wing I here my normally placid stude shout, "Oh f*** off you annoying ****!"
The spotter hurries past me, climbs over the fence and disappears into the throng.
"What's up Rich?" I ask, Didn't that prove it to him?"
"Nah," he said, "The **** said we've painted over them."
Much laughter from the crowd.
Reichman
I'd flown a JP Mk5 to an airshow at Brize Norton for a static display. I'm leaning agaist the railing with my student, answering the same questions of: "How fast does it go mister?" "How high will it go?" etc, etc. When some middle aged fat bloke in a combat jacket covered wit badges sidles up and leans on the opposite side of the fence. Alfter listening to a few of the kids' questions he gives me a knowing look and says, "Of course I remember these when they were camouflaged."
"Sorry mate," I reply, "your thinking of the Strikemaster. This is a Jet Provost Mk5"
"Yes son," he says, "they used to be called Strikemasters. The Jet Provost is what the RAF calls them."
"I think you'll find it's the other way round."
"No, I think you'll find I'm right."
I turn to my stude and ask him to bring the F700 over. He does, and I show it to the spotter.
"Look, it says here JET PROVOST T Mk5. Satisfied?"
He wasn't.
"They've obviously issued a new log book when it was converted."
I'm losing this one. "The Strikemaster is basically the same airframe but with a bigger engine and hard points on the wing." I say with an air of resignation.
"I think you'll find that this has got the attachment holes for the hard points." Says the spotter with an air of authority.
I turn to my stude, "Rich, let this gentleman over the fence and go and show him the underside of the wing." This he does whilst I entertain the now groing crowd that has formed to watch the argument unfold. Suddenly, from under the wing I here my normally placid stude shout, "Oh f*** off you annoying ****!"
The spotter hurries past me, climbs over the fence and disappears into the throng.
"What's up Rich?" I ask, Didn't that prove it to him?"
"Nah," he said, "The **** said we've painted over them."
Much laughter from the crowd.
Reichman
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't believe it.......(said in a Victor Meldrew voice).
What's going on? These guys are actually being given the ear of an anti-terrorism group?
It'll be a matter of days before the poor bloke on the receiving end of their calls jumps from the nearest tall building.
Evo and Reichman's experiences of these "Malcolms" only go to prove that these people could not be further from being considered "responsible". Yeah, they might know whether or not an important bolt has come loose on the wing of a passing jet through their super-zoom bino's, but human behaviour????
They all live with their Mum's. What do they know about human behaviour? They all eat cucumber sanwiches and drink Ribena diluted at no more than 5 parts concentrate and 23 parts water from their Star Wars flasks.
I mean honestly. They're "aviation enthusiasts". All it'll take is a poor innocent bloke of Asian origin to decide to go for a jog around the Heathrow perimeter fence one morning and all hell will break loose when they spot him throught their bino's.
What's going on? These guys are actually being given the ear of an anti-terrorism group?
It'll be a matter of days before the poor bloke on the receiving end of their calls jumps from the nearest tall building.
Evo and Reichman's experiences of these "Malcolms" only go to prove that these people could not be further from being considered "responsible". Yeah, they might know whether or not an important bolt has come loose on the wing of a passing jet through their super-zoom bino's, but human behaviour????
They all live with their Mum's. What do they know about human behaviour? They all eat cucumber sanwiches and drink Ribena diluted at no more than 5 parts concentrate and 23 parts water from their Star Wars flasks.
I mean honestly. They're "aviation enthusiasts". All it'll take is a poor innocent bloke of Asian origin to decide to go for a jog around the Heathrow perimeter fence one morning and all hell will break loose when they spot him throught their bino's.
Not so N, but still FG
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cucumber? Naaah: Shippam's Fish Paste on Mother's Pride, I think you'll find.
You're right though: how long before they try a "Spotter's Arrest" on one of the many Sikh employees of the Airport? (as a colleague of mine who is a Sikh has found out, assorted dickheads, and even real policemen, classify him on sight as a beardy rag-head terrorist).
You're right though: how long before they try a "Spotter's Arrest" on one of the many Sikh employees of the Airport? (as a colleague of mine who is a Sikh has found out, assorted dickheads, and even real policemen, classify him on sight as a beardy rag-head terrorist).
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chichester, UK
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, the other thing about spotters - why do they pick the most awkward places to stand and spot?
At Goodwood you can get yourself a cuppa and sit outside the clubhouse. It's a great place to be on a sunny day, and unless they're using 24 you will get just about the best view of the aerodome. But do you go there if you're spotting? No. You either hide behind the main hangar or, more often it seems, park in a lay-by outside the perimeter fence and stand on a box to try and see over the bl**dy great earth banks around the racing circuit. If that wasn't bad enough, your location also seems to be carefully planned to put you as far away from the active runway as possible. If you're lucky you'll see the occasional glimpse of someone hot'n'high and en-route to a go-around, but you'll miss most of the aeroplanes using the place. Why?
I guess it's one of the strange hobbies like model railways and pigeon fancying that i'll never understand. They all probably think the same about us. Pay 100 quid an hour to do what ?!?
At Goodwood you can get yourself a cuppa and sit outside the clubhouse. It's a great place to be on a sunny day, and unless they're using 24 you will get just about the best view of the aerodome. But do you go there if you're spotting? No. You either hide behind the main hangar or, more often it seems, park in a lay-by outside the perimeter fence and stand on a box to try and see over the bl**dy great earth banks around the racing circuit. If that wasn't bad enough, your location also seems to be carefully planned to put you as far away from the active runway as possible. If you're lucky you'll see the occasional glimpse of someone hot'n'high and en-route to a go-around, but you'll miss most of the aeroplanes using the place. Why?
I guess it's one of the strange hobbies like model railways and pigeon fancying that i'll never understand. They all probably think the same about us. Pay 100 quid an hour to do what ?!?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh for forks sake, what will they think of next?
Jeeze, I got a bollocking from a "silly old fart" the other day for riding my bike too close to him. As I rode past he started giving me abuse so I stopped and I did point out that he was walking down the middle of what is classed as a road, and that he watched me come around the corner and when he saw me he started walking slap bang in the middle. Nope, he wasn't having it, I was wrong, blah blah blah. I must admit I was very restrained, until I couldn't handle it any more and called him a "silly old fart" (the C word did spring to mind) and rode off....
Anyway, I digress....my point being that this would be the sort of interested party who would willingly sign up to police the airports and ensure the homeland security of Britian.....
Jeeze, I got a bollocking from a "silly old fart" the other day for riding my bike too close to him. As I rode past he started giving me abuse so I stopped and I did point out that he was walking down the middle of what is classed as a road, and that he watched me come around the corner and when he saw me he started walking slap bang in the middle. Nope, he wasn't having it, I was wrong, blah blah blah. I must admit I was very restrained, until I couldn't handle it any more and called him a "silly old fart" (the C word did spring to mind) and rode off....
Anyway, I digress....my point being that this would be the sort of interested party who would willingly sign up to police the airports and ensure the homeland security of Britian.....
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Retford, UK
Posts: 476
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure if I can offer any insight into the spotter's world, but I have been guilty of occasionally parking at the approach of MAN's 24R runway and watching the jets' approaches, especially on gusty crosswind days.
I've also been to the occasional airshow!
Does that make me an aviation enthusiast?
- Michael
PPL Student
(checks for flask and sandwich contents nervously...)
I've also been to the occasional airshow!
Does that make me an aviation enthusiast?
- Michael
PPL Student
(checks for flask and sandwich contents nervously...)
Last edited by MichaelJP59; 4th May 2004 at 15:20.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chichester, UK
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my point being that this would be the sort of interested party who would willingly sign up to police the airports and ensure the homeland security of Britian.....
Evo,
not all spotters / enthusiasts have no interest in the aircraft they observe/photograph. Some are even pilots as well or work in aviation.
yes you do get the odd ecentric idiot but you can say that about any interest or hobby
not all spotters / enthusiasts have no interest in the aircraft they observe/photograph. Some are even pilots as well or work in aviation.
yes you do get the odd ecentric idiot but you can say that about any interest or hobby
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chichester, UK
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PaulC - I didn't say that. For some reason I just decided to quote it.
My views on spotters are limited to occasional irritation when the "odd eccentric idiot" decides to argue with me about what type of aeroplane i'm flying, and bafflement when I see someone that way inclined making things so difficult for himself. Apart from that I see it as one of a number of harmless, if eccentric, English pastimes*, and I have no doubt that most of them know far more about the aeroplanes that they observe than I do - with the exception of types I've flown, it isn't difficult
*unlike pigeon fancying, which seems like a good way to get a nasty disease or three.
(edit: I just pasted the above into Word to check my spelling
and the annoying paperclip told me off for using gender-specific terms. Are there female spotters out there? AerBabe? 
)
My views on spotters are limited to occasional irritation when the "odd eccentric idiot" decides to argue with me about what type of aeroplane i'm flying, and bafflement when I see someone that way inclined making things so difficult for himself. Apart from that I see it as one of a number of harmless, if eccentric, English pastimes*, and I have no doubt that most of them know far more about the aeroplanes that they observe than I do - with the exception of types I've flown, it isn't difficult
*unlike pigeon fancying, which seems like a good way to get a nasty disease or three.
(edit: I just pasted the above into Word to check my spelling
and the annoying paperclip told me off for using gender-specific terms. Are there female spotters out there? AerBabe? )
Not so N, but still FG
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It was me that said it, and I based my observation on a visit, by air, to the North Weald Aerofair (big Spotter gathering) and to conversations with spotters eager to obtain the civilian registrations of aircraft I've flown which have military paintjobs.
I still think that we should have stuck to the "You keep the spotters, we'll keep the Elgin Marbles" deal a year or two back.
Edit: the annoying paperclip chappie is a born spotter. Why not replace him with Earl the Cat?
I still think that we should have stuck to the "You keep the spotters, we'll keep the Elgin Marbles" deal a year or two back.
Edit: the annoying paperclip chappie is a born spotter. Why not replace him with Earl the Cat?
Last edited by FNG; 4th May 2004 at 16:42.
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bracknell, UK
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few minutes Googling came up with this....
http://www.laasdata.com/taess.html
Top notch stuff:
" - Are there ‘strange’ individuals viewing that are not Enthusiasts? "
(Should stick out like a sore thumb then)
" - Is there someone watching movements of people and vehicles?"
(Yeees....isn't that the point?)
"- The Police encourage everyone, but particularly those who know the workings of an airport and can therefore spot something out of the ordinary, to contact them if they believe something they see or hear is suspicious. "
(i.e. the Old Bill have had a hard time recently stopping armed robbers whooping it up airside at LHR, and could do with a bloke with a clipboard to spot the villains for them)
" - Never touch an aircraft, no smoking and keep a look out AT ALL TIMES. "
(No Colin - never touch *anything* - it'll send you blind)
" - Remember that PROPELLERS can KILL!"
(Yes, from a range of at least 4 miles - best stay well clear)
http://www.laasdata.com/taess.html
Top notch stuff:
" - Are there ‘strange’ individuals viewing that are not Enthusiasts? "
(Should stick out like a sore thumb then)
" - Is there someone watching movements of people and vehicles?"
(Yeees....isn't that the point?)
"- The Police encourage everyone, but particularly those who know the workings of an airport and can therefore spot something out of the ordinary, to contact them if they believe something they see or hear is suspicious. "
(i.e. the Old Bill have had a hard time recently stopping armed robbers whooping it up airside at LHR, and could do with a bloke with a clipboard to spot the villains for them)
" - Never touch an aircraft, no smoking and keep a look out AT ALL TIMES. "
(No Colin - never touch *anything* - it'll send you blind)
" - Remember that PROPELLERS can KILL!"
(Yes, from a range of at least 4 miles - best stay well clear)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Michael JP59
Don't fret old chap. I think we're all guilty of watching them skew it in on a blustery day once in our lives. I was once passing through Hatton Cross with a mate when there was a 50 kt Northerly. We did stop and watch a few go over. Great stuff.
I would like to add that my shirt was not tucked into my pants. I did not have a beard with bits of old food entwined within, I don't even own a pair of binoculars and the last time I used a clipboard it was 20 years ago when I did a school project about the colour of cars passing the school gate. We didn't take sarnies and we didn't take flasks.
Don't fret old chap. I think we're all guilty of watching them skew it in on a blustery day once in our lives. I was once passing through Hatton Cross with a mate when there was a 50 kt Northerly. We did stop and watch a few go over. Great stuff.
I would like to add that my shirt was not tucked into my pants. I did not have a beard with bits of old food entwined within, I don't even own a pair of binoculars and the last time I used a clipboard it was 20 years ago when I did a school project about the colour of cars passing the school gate. We didn't take sarnies and we didn't take flasks.
Not so N, but still FG
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eharding,
Hoot! Roar! Howl! Blow coffee through nose! Too wonderful for words: the look on the face of Inspector Plod in the photo says it all.
Hoot! Roar! Howl! Blow coffee through nose! Too wonderful for words: the look on the face of Inspector Plod in the photo says it all.
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Croydon (but really from Barnsley)
Age: 64
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If someone does turn up with a Stinger missile you'll get all the spotters going:
"Is that the mark 2 or the mark 3?"
"It's the mark 2, I think you'll find the mark three has a different gizmo flange on the doohicky. Oh look, there's the serial number!"
and spilling their flasks of weak lemon drink.
Edit: I just looked at that website eharding posted, and wished I hadn't.. They can't even spell 'Enthusiast' on their website, for crying out loud. Check out the menu banner at the top, where it says:-
"Enthusisats Security Scheme"
"Is that the mark 2 or the mark 3?"
"It's the mark 2, I think you'll find the mark three has a different gizmo flange on the doohicky. Oh look, there's the serial number!"
and spilling their flasks of weak lemon drink.
Edit: I just looked at that website eharding posted, and wished I hadn't.. They can't even spell 'Enthusiast' on their website, for crying out loud. Check out the menu banner at the top, where it says:-
"Enthusisats Security Scheme"
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
Posts: 1,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At the risk of departing from spotter-abuse, that sounds like the fine chap who was photographed flying his aeroplane up and down the seafront at Portsmouth looking for terrorists, drug runners and drowning nuns. Or whatever it was that he claimed to be looking for. I wonder what happened about all that? The aeroplane in question is still sat on the ground at an aerodrome not far away, so I guess he isn't flying it...
Strangely the EB seem to have no interest in letting anyone know the result so only the culprit learns from his mistake.
Mike
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bracknell, UK
Posts: 696
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't actually scroll down to see the photo until I'd posted the message above. Magnificent.
Notice how spotter mate has his binos at the ready.
Ed.
Notice how spotter mate has his binos at the ready.
Ed.