Run! It's the Spotter Police
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[And in proper response to the original post... the use of "familiar locals" for potential threat reporting was identified a good a year or so ago in US airport management texts. Has the same imperfections as neighbourhood watch, but doesn't mean it's fundamentally flawed]
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Perhaps it's the school boy in us all, but it is funny how when it comes to us giving the "spotters" a bit of a doing, thread, we have 4 times as many posts as, the thread about the person who is learning to land.
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Yep, I used to be a spotter as well in my younger years. At least I didnt walk the streets vandalising phone boxes or graffittiing walls.
Any one who has an interest in aviation needs to be encouraged if we are to combat the growing tide of Nimby-ism in this country. I do, however, consider it a past time for the younger generation who may well convert their hobby into a future occupation.
Few go on to become psuedo professional spotters supplying photos and data to magazines for financial reward, and I do generally have a personal problem with the 'older' spotter types who should be doing something more productive with their lives.
What is apparent is that the internet has provided them with a communication network that makes them aware of potential planned aircraft movements before they occur. I can see the logic in the recent moves to 'enlist' them in airport security measures, but would caution that most are not suitable for such a task. A selection process needs to be defined to weed out the sort of geeks that other forumites have experienced.
Encourage aviation enthusiasm in the younger generation....yes, weed out the saddo's whose only point in life is to 'out spot' other spotters....yes, select the balanced few to report the comings and goings they observe....yes, blanket all spotters as part time security watchdogs...no way.
Any one who has an interest in aviation needs to be encouraged if we are to combat the growing tide of Nimby-ism in this country. I do, however, consider it a past time for the younger generation who may well convert their hobby into a future occupation.
Few go on to become psuedo professional spotters supplying photos and data to magazines for financial reward, and I do generally have a personal problem with the 'older' spotter types who should be doing something more productive with their lives.
What is apparent is that the internet has provided them with a communication network that makes them aware of potential planned aircraft movements before they occur. I can see the logic in the recent moves to 'enlist' them in airport security measures, but would caution that most are not suitable for such a task. A selection process needs to be defined to weed out the sort of geeks that other forumites have experienced.
Encourage aviation enthusiasm in the younger generation....yes, weed out the saddo's whose only point in life is to 'out spot' other spotters....yes, select the balanced few to report the comings and goings they observe....yes, blanket all spotters as part time security watchdogs...no way.
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I'm pretty certain that there is a "spectator" in all of us. If I haven't got a trip on, one of my favourite ways to spend a warm Sunday morning is to fly to somewhere local, like North Weald, and sit on the terrace with a bacon sarnie and a big mug of coffee, watching the comings and goings.
I also love going to the big airshows as nothing can ever beat a Tornado with the burners on, passing at almost a mach, 200ft away from you.
But I would be sneered at by a spotter. No binos or telescope, no spiral bound pad, no scanner, pockets that are not full of pencils in a Harry Hill style? "You've been that close to the aircraft and you haven't made any notes??"
I suspect that this plan is one that that the spotters have negotiated to increase the status of shirts-in-pants-man everywhere, rather than something that the Police/inteligence agencies have sort to put into place. My main concern is that the more argumentative ones will now be walking around looking like Harry Hill, but acting like Harry Callahan, and will think that they have the 'right' to question us on where we have been etc.
I also love going to the big airshows as nothing can ever beat a Tornado with the burners on, passing at almost a mach, 200ft away from you.
But I would be sneered at by a spotter. No binos or telescope, no spiral bound pad, no scanner, pockets that are not full of pencils in a Harry Hill style? "You've been that close to the aircraft and you haven't made any notes??"
I suspect that this plan is one that that the spotters have negotiated to increase the status of shirts-in-pants-man everywhere, rather than something that the Police/inteligence agencies have sort to put into place. My main concern is that the more argumentative ones will now be walking around looking like Harry Hill, but acting like Harry Callahan, and will think that they have the 'right' to question us on where we have been etc.
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Quite a few people "coming out" then and admitting a bit of spotting, nothing wrong with it once in a while
I think the types we have least understanding of are the spotters who are there just to collect reg numbers and track movements, and have no particular interest in the flying part of it. These guys could just have easily been train or bus spotters. Still, I have no complaints - each to their own!
The hardest-core must be the "space" spotters, who go to Florida to watch rocket and space-shuttle launches. This lot can stand about in a Florida swamp for weeks as the launch is delayed or cancelled!
- Michael
I think the types we have least understanding of are the spotters who are there just to collect reg numbers and track movements, and have no particular interest in the flying part of it. These guys could just have easily been train or bus spotters. Still, I have no complaints - each to their own!
The hardest-core must be the "space" spotters, who go to Florida to watch rocket and space-shuttle launches. This lot can stand about in a Florida swamp for weeks as the launch is delayed or cancelled!
- Michael
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The types I have the least understanding of are those who collect aircraft and movement details and enter them into the various spotter websites, occassionally accompanied by the personal details of the owner obtained from G-INFO.
There is a new version that I've come across recently.
Apparently when new PFA or BMAA homebuilt projects are registered, and their details appear on G-INFO, some spotters are phoning the registered owner demanding the right to go and see the just started project (=pile of bits of metal) in their garage. The purpose is the kudos of being the first spotter in the whole world to see this particular aeroplane.
The fact that it isn't actually an aeroplane yet, and may not be for some time (or, in some cases, ever), is apparently lost on them!
G
Apparently when new PFA or BMAA homebuilt projects are registered, and their details appear on G-INFO, some spotters are phoning the registered owner demanding the right to go and see the just started project (=pile of bits of metal) in their garage. The purpose is the kudos of being the first spotter in the whole world to see this particular aeroplane.
The fact that it isn't actually an aeroplane yet, and may not be for some time (or, in some cases, ever), is apparently lost on them!
G
Not so N, but still FG
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I've just popped in to the Spotter's Forum (using a forged ID and out of date copy of the reggie book), and extended to them a friendly invitation to come and play with us.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...95#post1324795
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...95#post1324795
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And you lot wonder why some people think pilots are arseholes
I totally agree that the more extreme elements deserve to be treated with contempt (and if what Genghis says is true reported for stalking)
However have any of you actually stopped to think that this may help. Not all spotters are extreme wierdos not all pilots are arseholes, its the large number of people in the middle of the extremes that this will be aimed at.
If any nutcase abuses it then he really deserves all he gets.
I totally agree that the more extreme elements deserve to be treated with contempt (and if what Genghis says is true reported for stalking)
However have any of you actually stopped to think that this may help. Not all spotters are extreme wierdos not all pilots are arseholes, its the large number of people in the middle of the extremes that this will be aimed at.
If any nutcase abuses it then he really deserves all he gets.
Last edited by Man-on-the-fence; 5th May 2004 at 09:43.
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Genhgis,
This is not a new phenomenon about ten years or so ago a fellow PFAer made the mistake of registering his home built as soon as he started the build. As stated the details appeared on the new rego list and as he explained to us at a strut night he was raided by a bunch of fanatics from a midlands spotter club.
These numpties walked across a field and clambered over his garden fence, in so doing trampling over his wifes precious flower beds destroying a number of cherished plants. They then repeated this procedure outside his shed and his garage whilst trying to find the Aircraft. At this point his wife arrived home saw the damage threw a complete wobbler and set the dog on these idiots.
What pissed my mate off was the fact that he'd had enough of a struggle convincing the missus to let him build the thing in the first place, after this little escapade domestic relations were on a par to the cold war during the Cuban missile crisis.
And as he said if they'd have rung up and asked he'd have shown them the pile of wing ribs as his friends and family were all sick to the back teeth of him going on about the thing and he was looking for people to share in the dream!
This is not a new phenomenon about ten years or so ago a fellow PFAer made the mistake of registering his home built as soon as he started the build. As stated the details appeared on the new rego list and as he explained to us at a strut night he was raided by a bunch of fanatics from a midlands spotter club.
These numpties walked across a field and clambered over his garden fence, in so doing trampling over his wifes precious flower beds destroying a number of cherished plants. They then repeated this procedure outside his shed and his garage whilst trying to find the Aircraft. At this point his wife arrived home saw the damage threw a complete wobbler and set the dog on these idiots.
What pissed my mate off was the fact that he'd had enough of a struggle convincing the missus to let him build the thing in the first place, after this little escapade domestic relations were on a par to the cold war during the Cuban missile crisis.
And as he said if they'd have rung up and asked he'd have shown them the pile of wing ribs as his friends and family were all sick to the back teeth of him going on about the thing and he was looking for people to share in the dream!
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What gets me is that fact that people presume that just because your a pilot you should be able to tell every type of aircraft in circulation. And ATC are the worst for this.
"After the 767 taxi A1" and there is a line of 757 767 and airbuses all coming towards where your holding. And the tone of voice when you ask "err is that the one with the blue tail" "negative its a A330".
I don't have a bloody clue spotting between the different types unless I have flown them. You get big ones, little ones, 2 engines and 4 engines, high wing, low wing and biz jets and light aircraft. All other references should be company based or colour based.
I don't really have a problem with people watching hairy landings. But learning all the tech crap and taking numbers when they don't even fly them!!!!
MJ
"After the 767 taxi A1" and there is a line of 757 767 and airbuses all coming towards where your holding. And the tone of voice when you ask "err is that the one with the blue tail" "negative its a A330".
I don't have a bloody clue spotting between the different types unless I have flown them. You get big ones, little ones, 2 engines and 4 engines, high wing, low wing and biz jets and light aircraft. All other references should be company based or colour based.
I don't really have a problem with people watching hairy landings. But learning all the tech crap and taking numbers when they don't even fly them!!!!
MJ
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Having once been a twitcher, the bird-watching equivalent of a plane spotter , I'm not sure that I dare contribute to this thread with inviting ridicule.
I wonder how the spotter I once saw desperately trying to prise open the doors of a locker hangar would react if he found someone doing exactly the same to his garage?
On a lighter note - last year, our group aircraft was the subject of a flight test in a national magazine and alongside the article was an advert for the same type of aircraft. Unfortunately, the printer had mirrored the registration while keeping the aircraft picture correct. A week later at Aerofair, all day, we had Reggie S. Potter & his mates coming up & saying 'ere mate, where's the blue one with the reg back to front?' They didn't seem to want to believe it was a printing error.
And then there were the two transvestites. It was the telescope that gave it away I think., it clashed with the handbag.
I wonder how the spotter I once saw desperately trying to prise open the doors of a locker hangar would react if he found someone doing exactly the same to his garage?
On a lighter note - last year, our group aircraft was the subject of a flight test in a national magazine and alongside the article was an advert for the same type of aircraft. Unfortunately, the printer had mirrored the registration while keeping the aircraft picture correct. A week later at Aerofair, all day, we had Reggie S. Potter & his mates coming up & saying 'ere mate, where's the blue one with the reg back to front?' They didn't seem to want to believe it was a printing error.
And then there were the two transvestites. It was the telescope that gave it away I think., it clashed with the handbag.
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A long day working on the site but bar shaker 'made my day':
'This is a .357 Steepletone Airband - the most powerful radio under 11 quid at Tandy Punk.'
Thanks for the grin
Rob
walking around looking like Harry Hill, but acting like Harry Callahan
Thanks for the grin
Rob
The ID scheme should at least be given a chance rather than be scorned. If it means that the genuine enthusiast can register their interest with the authorities then where is the harm in that.
Some of the comments on this thread are 'anti spotter' which is unfortunate as the vast majority would not and do not behave in such an offensive way, but as in any hobby you will always get the odd idiot.
Even the term 'spotter' is often spoken with derision by some, enthusiast is a better term as it covers a far wider range of aviation interests such as historical, restorations, photography.
I am involved in all 3 aspects, especially the restoration (one member on this thread has seen the project in question) and it is probable that some will have seen some photo's in magazines.
If enthusiasm for all aspects of aviation were reduced then airshows / publications etc would have no market to aim for.
You only have to go into a well know high street shop to see the range of aviation related magazines on offer.
How many people that will visit say IAT or SBAC Farnborough have involvement in aviation other than it being an interest.
yes I admit I collect tail codes but I do not have an anorak, thermos, bobble hat, stepladder or any such equipment that some might associate with a 'spotter'
Some of the comments on this thread are 'anti spotter' which is unfortunate as the vast majority would not and do not behave in such an offensive way, but as in any hobby you will always get the odd idiot.
Even the term 'spotter' is often spoken with derision by some, enthusiast is a better term as it covers a far wider range of aviation interests such as historical, restorations, photography.
I am involved in all 3 aspects, especially the restoration (one member on this thread has seen the project in question) and it is probable that some will have seen some photo's in magazines.
If enthusiasm for all aspects of aviation were reduced then airshows / publications etc would have no market to aim for.
You only have to go into a well know high street shop to see the range of aviation related magazines on offer.
How many people that will visit say IAT or SBAC Farnborough have involvement in aviation other than it being an interest.
yes I admit I collect tail codes but I do not have an anorak, thermos, bobble hat, stepladder or any such equipment that some might associate with a 'spotter'
Northern Monkey
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Would it be possible to have a warning on this thread, specifically, not to read it while at work. I've jsut recieved a lot of dodgy looks by nearly squirting coffee through my nose laughing while reading this thread.
My prooning adiction was nearly uncovered at work.
NB
My prooning adiction was nearly uncovered at work.
NB
Not so N, but still FG
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On the security theme, I notice that, in order to get your ID card, you have to send in a photocopy of your spotter club membership card. A foolproof system! That nice man Mr Jihad al Shaheed, who has rented the place down the road and is obviously a keen gardener judging by the sacks of fertiliser piled up in his front hall, says that he's already sent off for his, and just hopes that they spell his name correctly.
Last edited by FNG; 5th May 2004 at 14:14.
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Its not meant to be foolproof and the card does not confer any special rights etc. on the individual.
It doesnt do much but it may just help, why so negative?
It doesnt do much but it may just help, why so negative?
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Well....I'd prefer someone videoing my landing, taking down my aircraft reg, and telling me I'm actually flying a different airplane than I am, rather than have the same person being just as focused on stopping those noisey little airplanes flying over their village.
Imagine if we would convert every NIMBY to a spotter!
dp
Imagine if we would convert every NIMBY to a spotter!
dp