Airspeed
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
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From: London, UK
The current edition of Today's Pilot contains an interesting article on using Alpha instead of airspeed, with some discussion of the sort of Alpha indicators that might be fitted to GA types.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
Ken,
Nice to read that you had so much success in applying what you gleaned from here.
Before I fly a new aeroplane I read the POH and take note of the figures there but as soon as I have been up for a few minutes and am comfortably 'in the saddle' I will do some slow flying and stalls (both clean and in the landing configuration)
I use the figure of the stall in the landing configuration and multiply by 1.3 to get a sensible approach speed.
For most aeroplanes I fly that is a good ballpark figure to go by.
May not work for some more esoteric types as others have professed on here.
Have fun.
FD
Nice to read that you had so much success in applying what you gleaned from here.
Before I fly a new aeroplane I read the POH and take note of the figures there but as soon as I have been up for a few minutes and am comfortably 'in the saddle' I will do some slow flying and stalls (both clean and in the landing configuration)
I use the figure of the stall in the landing configuration and multiply by 1.3 to get a sensible approach speed.
For most aeroplanes I fly that is a good ballpark figure to go by.
May not work for some more esoteric types as others have professed on here.
Have fun.
FD
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Alpha
Some years ago now, I was asked to fly a hot little homebuilt monoplane WWII replica taildragger. The only other UK example had been extensively campaigned by Rod Dean, head of CAA GA dept in those days.
I rang him and explained that the purpose of the call was to glean sufficient data from him to preclude me featuring prominently in the next edition of GASIL!
He was v enthusiastic and gave me a thorough briefing, at the end he asked if I had any questions.
"Only one, Sir, you haven't mentioned approach speeds - what speed do you approach at and what speed do you come over the fence at?"
"Ah, nine alpha dear boy! Same as the Jag"
"Very well, except all I have is an ASI calibrated in mph and I never flew the Jaguar!"
"In that case 90mph should give you about 9A!"
Well 90mph worked well on 6,000' of tarmac but by the time I had to take it somewhere softer and far shorter, it was 1.1Vs which must have had me nearer 13Alpha.
However, I think that discussions about flying Alpha should not detract from the main topic of this thread as I have NEVER been in a light aircraft with an AoA indicator and would worry how accurately calibrated post-production mods are.
Stik
I rang him and explained that the purpose of the call was to glean sufficient data from him to preclude me featuring prominently in the next edition of GASIL!
He was v enthusiastic and gave me a thorough briefing, at the end he asked if I had any questions.
"Only one, Sir, you haven't mentioned approach speeds - what speed do you approach at and what speed do you come over the fence at?"
"Ah, nine alpha dear boy! Same as the Jag"
"Very well, except all I have is an ASI calibrated in mph and I never flew the Jaguar!"
"In that case 90mph should give you about 9A!"
Well 90mph worked well on 6,000' of tarmac but by the time I had to take it somewhere softer and far shorter, it was 1.1Vs which must have had me nearer 13Alpha.
However, I think that discussions about flying Alpha should not detract from the main topic of this thread as I have NEVER been in a light aircraft with an AoA indicator and would worry how accurately calibrated post-production mods are.
Stik
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 479
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From: Enniskillen
I had an instructor who "made me" fly circuits with everything covered up, would not even let me see the RPM, nothing but a big map over the panel.
"Just fly attitude" he said.
One night just as I became visual on an ILS, I switched on the landing light and all the panel lights went out.
Nothing to look at but the R/W lights and too close to the ground to think about the torch,
"just fly attitude"
Tony
"Just fly attitude" he said.
One night just as I became visual on an ILS, I switched on the landing light and all the panel lights went out.
Nothing to look at but the R/W lights and too close to the ground to think about the torch,
"just fly attitude"
Tony
Sub Judice Angel Lovegod
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,460
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From: London
TonyR
With respect, if you are on the ILS and still need IAS and engine parameters as you become visual you are flying the ILS wrong!
I would not expect any correction to the attitude or power between 200' and the flare, provided you have been stable on the ILS for the last four miles, and if you haven't you should be going around anyway.
Regarding the rest of this thread, there seems to me to be a missing element. You can control the nature of the landing very largely with speed. I fly an Aztec, mostly out of long paved runways. I adopt an approach speed which gives me a short but noticeable flare, during which I can ensure that the mains touch down gently, I can hold the nose up for aerodynamic braking, then lower it and be at taxi speed for a convenient turn off.
However, I sometimes operate into a 470m strip, which is no joke in an Aztec in anybody's money. I arrive there a full five knots slower, haul back on the stick just before...well just before where the numbers would be if there were any...the mains thump down, I pull on the stick but the nose goes down almost immediately, I brake and stop in 370m. This performance is not going to get any awards for finesse, is not nice for inexperienced pax and probably doesn't increase the life expectancy of the airframe. But it gets the job done.
So there is an element of horses for courses on the landing speed. But this comes with experience and especially experience on type...I probably have 1500 hours on Aztecs with 1200 on my particular aircraft, I wouldn't mess the same way with an aircraft I am new to.
So I do agree that people should continue to learn how to fly after they leave their instructors...how many of us drive like BSM or our dads taught us? 2nd gear on roundabouts? 29mph?
Timothy
With respect, if you are on the ILS and still need IAS and engine parameters as you become visual you are flying the ILS wrong!
I would not expect any correction to the attitude or power between 200' and the flare, provided you have been stable on the ILS for the last four miles, and if you haven't you should be going around anyway.
Regarding the rest of this thread, there seems to me to be a missing element. You can control the nature of the landing very largely with speed. I fly an Aztec, mostly out of long paved runways. I adopt an approach speed which gives me a short but noticeable flare, during which I can ensure that the mains touch down gently, I can hold the nose up for aerodynamic braking, then lower it and be at taxi speed for a convenient turn off.
However, I sometimes operate into a 470m strip, which is no joke in an Aztec in anybody's money. I arrive there a full five knots slower, haul back on the stick just before...well just before where the numbers would be if there were any...the mains thump down, I pull on the stick but the nose goes down almost immediately, I brake and stop in 370m. This performance is not going to get any awards for finesse, is not nice for inexperienced pax and probably doesn't increase the life expectancy of the airframe. But it gets the job done.
So there is an element of horses for courses on the landing speed. But this comes with experience and especially experience on type...I probably have 1500 hours on Aztecs with 1200 on my particular aircraft, I wouldn't mess the same way with an aircraft I am new to.
So I do agree that people should continue to learn how to fly after they leave their instructors...how many of us drive like BSM or our dads taught us? 2nd gear on roundabouts? 29mph?
Timothy
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 479
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From: Enniskillen
Timothy,
I think you misunderstood me
My point is that you don't need anything to look at, if the aircraft is set up.
I also fly an Aztec and have flown it into very short strips, but I only have 600 hours in them, if I did not hate the sight of the Aztec, I might even catch up with you.
You should try a Cessna 340, not much good on 500 M but more of a "babe"
Tony
I think you misunderstood me
My point is that you don't need anything to look at, if the aircraft is set up.
I also fly an Aztec and have flown it into very short strips, but I only have 600 hours in them, if I did not hate the sight of the Aztec, I might even catch up with you.
You should try a Cessna 340, not much good on 500 M but more of a "babe"
Tony
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 96
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From: At work
When I learn't to fly it was drummed into me about keeping the approach speeds correct, inital @65kt reducing to 55kt over the hedge with full flap (in a C152). I started my flying from a bumby grass airfield so touching down fast was not a good idea. Since moving on to different airfields and instructors techniques have differed and I feel that long tarmac runways don't help. Ill admit myself that occasisnally I would come in about 85kt then just hold above the rwy 'till the speed bled right off, saved taxying but not good if you do it that way all the time. One day I'll get to fly tail draggers, then I can learn all over again
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
One night just as I became visual on an ILS, I switched on the landing light and all the panel lights went out.
The moral of that story is always have a torch very ready! By the time we got some light onto the instruments we were banked 30 or so degrees to the left...
Now I carry one clipped to my headset, and always on for critical phases of flight at night
EA
