Flight Information at Aerodromes and whats the point?
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windsock9, I did think you were complaining about the frequency part 
hence my post, but if you are complaining about the whole radio check then that's even worse 
vintage ATCO answered his own question of 'why bother?' by tagging on the 'I hope' bit in his post. It's the PIC's responsibility to ensure he has the required equipment for the flight and that it is working correctly, so it could be argued that performing a radio check keeps you in line with the ANO, unless the radio isn't a required item for the flight you are about go on of course. We all certaily hope that if the radio was a bit dodgey that we would be told but can you be sure?
I personally prefer to positively confirm that my radio is working by requesting a radio check, but like most others I include this in a startup/taxi/airfield information call and I can't remember ever having requested a radio check with the frequency except when I did the RT practical exam. Yes I agree there are areas where RT chatter needs to be cut down (G-** is lining up, G-** is rolling, G-** has raised the nose/tail wheel, etc) but I treat a radio check as a required part of pre-flight preparation. There must be other things to get annoyed at rather than at somebody checking their equipment is up to it?
Not sure what BA pilots do a Heathrow but I'm sure they have SOPs to cover all this.
Regards
Stoney X
hence my post, but if you are complaining about the whole radio check then that's even worse vintage ATCO answered his own question of 'why bother?' by tagging on the 'I hope' bit in his post. It's the PIC's responsibility to ensure he has the required equipment for the flight and that it is working correctly, so it could be argued that performing a radio check keeps you in line with the ANO, unless the radio isn't a required item for the flight you are about go on of course. We all certaily hope that if the radio was a bit dodgey that we would be told but can you be sure?I personally prefer to positively confirm that my radio is working by requesting a radio check, but like most others I include this in a startup/taxi/airfield information call and I can't remember ever having requested a radio check with the frequency except when I did the RT practical exam. Yes I agree there are areas where RT chatter needs to be cut down (G-** is lining up, G-** is rolling, G-** has raised the nose/tail wheel, etc) but I treat a radio check as a required part of pre-flight preparation. There must be other things to get annoyed at rather than at somebody checking their equipment is up to it?
Not sure what BA pilots do a Heathrow but I'm sure they have SOPs to cover all this.
Regards
Stoney X
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Hi stoney x, i think you have misinterpreted my post. Radio checks are great if you want one, you only have to ask for one, but why read out the entire frequency that you are transmitting through?? it seems a waste, basically as i said before, if there is no response from that unit you have called you know automatically your radio is on the wrong frequency! eg...
ABC tower, GABCD request radio check and taxi.....
not....
ABC tower, GABCD request radio check on one-two-three-decimal-four-five and taxi......
its the reading out the frequency part im getting at! not the radio check in general
regards W9
ABC tower, GABCD request radio check and taxi.....
not....
ABC tower, GABCD request radio check on one-two-three-decimal-four-five and taxi......
its the reading out the frequency part im getting at! not the radio check in general
regards W9
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Kingy
FISOs and ATCOs can both provide a full and identical Flight Information Service. There is no lower level of 'Information' Service.
Some ATCOs may have the benefit of a radar to help in the provision of traffic information, although as traffic information is not guaranteed this is an extra.
FISOs and ATCOs can both provide a full and identical Flight Information Service. There is no lower level of 'Information' Service.
Some ATCOs may have the benefit of a radar to help in the provision of traffic information, although as traffic information is not guaranteed this is an extra.
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Looking at the original post, I'm trying to work out what the question is.
Do we think that FISO is a superfluous addition to AG?
Do we think that FISO is a problematic downgrade from full ATC?
Or do we just hate FISOs?
Or do we like them?
What's the queston?
(I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. I sat down to write about how great the FISO services I've had have been, and then wondered whether I was actually answering the post...
)
Do we think that FISO is a superfluous addition to AG?
Do we think that FISO is a problematic downgrade from full ATC?
Or do we just hate FISOs?
Or do we like them?
What's the queston?
(I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. I sat down to write about how great the FISO services I've had have been, and then wondered whether I was actually answering the post...
)
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Sorry, I have not yet read all through the complete thread, but am responding to the initial thoughts.
i. I am extremely grateful for all of ATC, AFIS, and A/G, providing me with information when I need it. I don't have a problem with the differing completeness and control regime, provided I understand what I'm getting.
ii. As a pilot I'm very happy to provide the information about my flight progress which assists the provider of the relevant service to build their picture of traffic.
iii. As has been said, I think, discipline in use of RT, particularly at A/G aerodromes by pilots is key to clarity and rapid build of traffic awareness by all pilots on frequency. Lack of that discipline is always a danger at such fields, though I hasten to add that I have not encountered any particular problems at fields I have visited.
iv. AFIS has been very helpful to me when transiting close to an ATZ containing a busy navaid for example.
These are just personal opinions, but overall I feel grateful for the services provided.
i. I am extremely grateful for all of ATC, AFIS, and A/G, providing me with information when I need it. I don't have a problem with the differing completeness and control regime, provided I understand what I'm getting.
ii. As a pilot I'm very happy to provide the information about my flight progress which assists the provider of the relevant service to build their picture of traffic.
iii. As has been said, I think, discipline in use of RT, particularly at A/G aerodromes by pilots is key to clarity and rapid build of traffic awareness by all pilots on frequency. Lack of that discipline is always a danger at such fields, though I hasten to add that I have not encountered any particular problems at fields I have visited.
iv. AFIS has been very helpful to me when transiting close to an ATZ containing a busy navaid for example.
These are just personal opinions, but overall I feel grateful for the services provided.
Bookworm said
quote:
Why they let AFISO's control traffic on the ground is a mystery to me.
I refer m'learned friend to Rule 35
quote:
Why they let AFISO's control traffic on the ground is a mystery to me.
I refer m'learned friend to Rule 35
"(Aircraft callsign) taxi holding position (designation) runway (designation) via (route), surface wind (number) degrees (number) knots, QNH/QFE (pressure) millibars, left/right hand circuit."
when the A/G operator must advise (CAP 452):
"(Aircraft callsign) runway (designation) left/ right hand circuit QFE/QNH (pressure) millibars."
?
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Just my 2p worth
I think generally any service available to aid the pilot is appreciated (i am ppl(H) training for CPL). It is the times that there are informal chats on the frequency that they get annoyed (i do), as there is no need for it. Everytime I speak to a service, upon leaving frequency I will say my thanks, but that is the only informal remark that I will make, you never know when someone else may need to be transmitting - especially if an emergency arises.
Anyone else share the same view?
I think generally any service available to aid the pilot is appreciated (i am ppl(H) training for CPL). It is the times that there are informal chats on the frequency that they get annoyed (i do), as there is no need for it. Everytime I speak to a service, upon leaving frequency I will say my thanks, but that is the only informal remark that I will make, you never know when someone else may need to be transmitting - especially if an emergency arises.
Anyone else share the same view?
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I haven't had the misfortune 
of dealing with FISOs but i regularly use FIS from ATC aerodromes when i can. it comes in handy in areas where LARS is unavailable or for checking regional QNH. I've also gotten helpful traffic info when passing navaids which is helpful for dodging IR/IMC students practicing their holds.
I use FIS as a "poor man's" LARS when the latter is unavailable. I usually fly near coventry and with the airliners flying out of there now, FIS can be a Godsend. When recieving FIS i believe an ATCO has a duty to inform you of any dangers but i stand to be corrected. Its naive to assume that class G is only for spamcans, speaking to an ATCO recently, I was suprised by the number of airliner that they vector out into Class G airspace.
Capt. M
of dealing with FISOs but i regularly use FIS from ATC aerodromes when i can. it comes in handy in areas where LARS is unavailable or for checking regional QNH. I've also gotten helpful traffic info when passing navaids which is helpful for dodging IR/IMC students practicing their holds.I use FIS as a "poor man's" LARS when the latter is unavailable. I usually fly near coventry and with the airliners flying out of there now, FIS can be a Godsend. When recieving FIS i believe an ATCO has a duty to inform you of any dangers but i stand to be corrected. Its naive to assume that class G is only for spamcans, speaking to an ATCO recently, I was suprised by the number of airliner that they vector out into Class G airspace.
Capt. M
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You are right about commercial stuff using class G.
St Mary's marsh is popular for general handling and is used by many schools in Kent and some in Essex.
When Southend are using 06, they vector heavies over St Mary's as low as 1500ft. And its their published radar approach pattern.
FIS is a godsend at times and I would hate to see it go.
St Mary's marsh is popular for general handling and is used by many schools in Kent and some in Essex.
When Southend are using 06, they vector heavies over St Mary's as low as 1500ft. And its their published radar approach pattern.
FIS is a godsend at times and I would hate to see it go.
