Stokenchurch abolished: all Wycombe pilots now officially lost (Merged)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
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And there's now a NOTAM as well
EGTT
OTH : FROM 04/04/19 14:11 TO PERM B0655/04
E)ANO ERECTED:
BUXTON (171F633) CHIM, S, POSITION 531549N 0015117W, HGT 2120FT AMSL
1249FT AGL, LIT
STOKENCHURCH (230D121) RTM, S, POSITION 513954N 0005522W, HGT 1111FT
AMSL 327FT AGL, NOT LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-5 AND 5-4-1-8 REFER.
Mike
Hang on!
Let's translate that thing at Buxton using the AIP's list of abbreviations used in AIS publications.
ANO is not a listed abbreviation
CHIM is not a listed abbreviation
S means South or Southern Latitude
Bu@@ered if I understand it. If CHIM is an unofficial abbreviation for Chimney it's the biggest I've ever heard of, 1249 ft high?
I'll point AIS at it and get them to correct it.
Mike
EGTT
OTH : FROM 04/04/19 14:11 TO PERM B0655/04
E)ANO ERECTED:
BUXTON (171F633) CHIM, S, POSITION 531549N 0015117W, HGT 2120FT AMSL
1249FT AGL, LIT
STOKENCHURCH (230D121) RTM, S, POSITION 513954N 0005522W, HGT 1111FT
AMSL 327FT AGL, NOT LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-5 AND 5-4-1-8 REFER.
Mike
Hang on!
Let's translate that thing at Buxton using the AIP's list of abbreviations used in AIS publications.
ANO is not a listed abbreviation
CHIM is not a listed abbreviation
S means South or Southern Latitude
Bu@@ered if I understand it. If CHIM is an unofficial abbreviation for Chimney it's the biggest I've ever heard of, 1249 ft high?
I'll point AIS at it and get them to correct it.
Mike
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Is nothing sacred?!!
The next thing you know they'll knock that big golden ball thingy off the top of that stately home, fill in that big swan-shaped lake and I'll never find Wycombe again!
The next thing you know they'll knock that big golden ball thingy off the top of that stately home, fill in that big swan-shaped lake and I'll never find Wycombe again!
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Notam now re-issued as two separate ones
EGTT
OTH : FROM 04/04/22 10:29 TO PERM B0681/04
E)AIR NAVIGATION OBSTACLE.
STOKENCHURCH (REF NUMBER 230D121) SINGLE RTM, POSITION 513954N
0005522W, HGT 1111FT AMSL 327FT AGL, NOT LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-8 REFERS.
EGTT
OTH : FROM 04/04/22 10:26 TO PERM B0680/04
E)AIR NAVIGATION OBSTRUCTION.
BUXTON (REF NUMBER 171F633) SINGLE CHIMNEY, POSITION 531549N
0015117W, HGT 2120FT AMSL 1249FT AGL, LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-5 REFERS.
So ANO means Air Navigation Obstacle. It is a chimney at Buxton, and an enormous one at that.
RTM is a new one, I assume it's Radio Telephony Mast. This abbreviation does not appear in Gen 2-2-1 Abbreviations used in AIS Publications so it's only 9/10 I'm afraid.
Mike
EGTT
OTH : FROM 04/04/22 10:29 TO PERM B0681/04
E)AIR NAVIGATION OBSTACLE.
STOKENCHURCH (REF NUMBER 230D121) SINGLE RTM, POSITION 513954N
0005522W, HGT 1111FT AMSL 327FT AGL, NOT LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-8 REFERS.
EGTT
OTH : FROM 04/04/22 10:26 TO PERM B0680/04
E)AIR NAVIGATION OBSTRUCTION.
BUXTON (REF NUMBER 171F633) SINGLE CHIMNEY, POSITION 531549N
0015117W, HGT 2120FT AMSL 1249FT AGL, LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-5 REFERS.
So ANO means Air Navigation Obstacle. It is a chimney at Buxton, and an enormous one at that.
RTM is a new one, I assume it's Radio Telephony Mast. This abbreviation does not appear in Gen 2-2-1 Abbreviations used in AIS Publications so it's only 9/10 I'm afraid.
Mike
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Christmas Common is only a mile or two south of Stokenchurch (If you went eight miles you'd practically be in Henley). The small mast with the lights on is close to the most excellent Fox pub, a fine place to refresh after kite flying on breezy Watlington Hill.
Pan Pan, Pan Pan, Pan Pan: this is G-Brooklands requesting radar vectors to his sense of direction.
B
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Fear not - someone's snooked out and rebuilt it:
OTH : FROM 04/04/22 10:29 TO PERM B0681/04
E)AIR NAVIGATION OBSTACLE.
STOKENCHURCH (REF NUMBER 230D121) SINGLE RTM, POSITION 513954N
0005522W, HGT 1111FT AMSL 327FT AGL, NOT LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-8 REFERS.
OTH : FROM 04/04/22 10:29 TO PERM B0681/04
E)AIR NAVIGATION OBSTACLE.
STOKENCHURCH (REF NUMBER 230D121) SINGLE RTM, POSITION 513954N
0005522W, HGT 1111FT AMSL 327FT AGL, NOT LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-8 REFERS.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Apa, apo ndi kulikonse!
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Just a small irrelevant point - but I learnt that it was 1121 feet amsl.
I have just checked the RVA chart for EGLL dated October 2003 and it still says 1121 feet - NOT 1111 feet.
not that important really (unless you fly at 1112 feet!!!) but does make you wonder about the quality and accuracy of the info published.........
(i'll be ******ed if I can see it on the page quoted....)
I have just checked the RVA chart for EGLL dated October 2003 and it still says 1121 feet - NOT 1111 feet.
not that important really (unless you fly at 1112 feet!!!) but does make you wonder about the quality and accuracy of the info published.........
(i'll be ******ed if I can see it on the page quoted....)
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Mast missing of the new Half Mil.
The CAA have missed the mast at Stokenchurch off the latest 1:500000 Chart published on the 15th April. This mast is situated approx 6.5 nm NE of RAF Benson and is on the ridge just above a strip called Lewknor, which IS marked.
The mast is situated 2 nm due East of Lewknor and has a height amsl of 1141 ft. If you look at the new chart, the spot height marked on the M40 motorway of 837 is right beside the mast.
APPROX repeat APPROX co-ordinates are N51.39.7 W000.55.3
Check your old charts and be aware that this mast is there, and don't go haring around there in the grotty weather which can be prevalent in this area due to the ridge, without being aware.
I guess the CAA will Notam this in due course, but if I were you I would mark the spot in indelible ink.!!
The mast is situated 2 nm due East of Lewknor and has a height amsl of 1141 ft. If you look at the new chart, the spot height marked on the M40 motorway of 837 is right beside the mast.
APPROX repeat APPROX co-ordinates are N51.39.7 W000.55.3
Check your old charts and be aware that this mast is there, and don't go haring around there in the grotty weather which can be prevalent in this area due to the ridge, without being aware.
I guess the CAA will Notam this in due course, but if I were you I would mark the spot in indelible ink.!!
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OOps!
OK - they missed a mast off and durned if it wasn't a biggy...Oops!
A free-issue self adhesive overlay - I remember that the CAA did this when London City came into being - might be a good idea.
On the plus side, how useful or what is the decsion to add the 4 letter ICAO designators a la Jeps charts.
Along with presumably many other pilots, I responded to the 'how can we improve our charts' thread by making this suggestion. They listened!
THanks for the tip, the magic marker is coming out right now.
BTW - I wonder how many pilots religiously update their charts?
I remember as a student pilot in 1975 looking at my instructors chart. My attention was drawn to it because the sea was a very dark blue.
On closer inspection it had the London balloon barrage pencilled in across the Thames!
He was an ex WW2 fighter pilot.
Brian Hunter where are you? Last heard of at Stapleford.
HP
A free-issue self adhesive overlay - I remember that the CAA did this when London City came into being - might be a good idea.
On the plus side, how useful or what is the decsion to add the 4 letter ICAO designators a la Jeps charts.
Along with presumably many other pilots, I responded to the 'how can we improve our charts' thread by making this suggestion. They listened!
THanks for the tip, the magic marker is coming out right now.
BTW - I wonder how many pilots religiously update their charts?
I remember as a student pilot in 1975 looking at my instructors chart. My attention was drawn to it because the sea was a very dark blue.
On closer inspection it had the London balloon barrage pencilled in across the Thames!
He was an ex WW2 fighter pilot.
Brian Hunter where are you? Last heard of at Stapleford.
HP
Join Date: Jul 2002
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We spoke to CAA Charts man about this at the London Air Show.
He agreed that an online solution would be best for all, and said that CAA currently lose money on charts, due high cost of prodution.
Told us that an online solution is waiting on resolution of licencing issues with Ordnance Survey who own underlying data, also on redistribution of responisbilities between CAA and NATS.
RC
He agreed that an online solution would be best for all, and said that CAA currently lose money on charts, due high cost of prodution.
Told us that an online solution is waiting on resolution of licencing issues with Ordnance Survey who own underlying data, also on redistribution of responisbilities between CAA and NATS.
RC
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We must have spoken to the same man 
The CAA already make the data available in some way to the makers of MemoryMap, the PDA-based moving map GPS software. I don't know if MM just scan in the CAA charts (under an agreed copyright agreement with the CAA/OS) or whether they get them in electronic form. The CAA charts man didn't know either. It should be evident if one looks at the MM database formats; if they are Jpegs or similar, they are most likely just scanning the charts.
I am sure that today the charts are produced electronically, in vector format. This is much better than scanning in a printed chart, descreening it, and ending up with massive graphic files which incidentally cannot be searched for text etc.
The CAA already make the data available in some way to the makers of MemoryMap, the PDA-based moving map GPS software. I don't know if MM just scan in the CAA charts (under an agreed copyright agreement with the CAA/OS) or whether they get them in electronic form. The CAA charts man didn't know either. It should be evident if one looks at the MM database formats; if they are Jpegs or similar, they are most likely just scanning the charts.
I am sure that today the charts are produced electronically, in vector format. This is much better than scanning in a printed chart, descreening it, and ending up with massive graphic files which incidentally cannot be searched for text etc.
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The charts used for Memory Map are of some proprietary format I think, especially as with the same file, you can switch between half-mill and quarter-mill charts, so I am guessing that they are in the same file, and the software just loads it all into memory and accesses different parts for different charts. The file also must contain some headers that can calibrate the maps in the software so that accurate positions can be plotted. If you want to know more about this sort of thing visit OziExplorer . Lots of useful info on the page when you dig around where map its map calibration process is (or used to be) explained.
If the maps are produced in vector format, someone would be able to produce a really wizard GPS with a full moving CAA chart that would be able to automagically route you around controlled airspace, danger areas, restricted areas etc. This would be really useful, therefore the chances of it happening are very slight .
(it would also mean that rather than downloading a new map each year @ £46 a pop as with Memory Map, you'd just need to download the updates for maybe a small registration fee). Its worth noting that PocketFMS does something similar (although its a GPS rather than a map as such), but relies on the community at large to enter data into their database (but then its free to download, and relies on donations of 50 euros to help support it). The point being, if someone can produce something this complicated and provide it for a small one off donation, then surely the CAA could do something similar.
Slightly veered off topic, but I guess in summary I would say that if the CAA/OS could sell an electronic map for £X that you could update each year without forking out all that money it would:
(1). Ensure that your map data was always up to date
(2). You would only need to print out the bits you need rather than carting around the whole map and deal with folding it in the cockpit.
(3). Mistakes like missing the Stokenchurch mast can easily, and cheaply be rectified (no need to for stick on bits).
(4). A real funky GPS moving map could be produced
I guess the downside is if you need or want to carry the whole map, you need to find someone with a huge A0 printer.
If the maps are produced in vector format, someone would be able to produce a really wizard GPS with a full moving CAA chart that would be able to automagically route you around controlled airspace, danger areas, restricted areas etc. This would be really useful, therefore the chances of it happening are very slight .
(it would also mean that rather than downloading a new map each year @ £46 a pop as with Memory Map, you'd just need to download the updates for maybe a small registration fee). Its worth noting that PocketFMS does something similar (although its a GPS rather than a map as such), but relies on the community at large to enter data into their database (but then its free to download, and relies on donations of 50 euros to help support it). The point being, if someone can produce something this complicated and provide it for a small one off donation, then surely the CAA could do something similar.Slightly veered off topic, but I guess in summary I would say that if the CAA/OS could sell an electronic map for £X that you could update each year without forking out all that money it would:
(1). Ensure that your map data was always up to date
(2). You would only need to print out the bits you need rather than carting around the whole map and deal with folding it in the cockpit.
(3). Mistakes like missing the Stokenchurch mast can easily, and cheaply be rectified (no need to for stick on bits).
(4). A real funky GPS moving map could be produced
I guess the downside is if you need or want to carry the whole map, you need to find someone with a huge A0 printer.
Some more money for Capt PPRuNe
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Boing_737, interesting you mention OziExplorer. I bought the software last month and have scanned a couple of maps in and "calibrated" them. I am very pleased with it - so far I have used it for (non flying) outdoor activities. It is easy to use and powerful. At the mo' I plan a route on the digital map in OziExplorer and upload it onto my (basic) gps which then points to each waypoint in turn.
Fuji
Fuji
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EGTT
OTH : FROM 04/04/22 10:29 TO PERM B0681/04
E)AIR NAVIGATION OBSTACLE.
STOKENCHURCH (REF NUMBER 230D121) SINGLE RTM, POSITION 513954N
0005522W, HGT 1111FT AMSL 327FT AGL, NOT LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-8 REFERS.
Also see
The Chart Amendments There are 12 to this chart already.
Remember there is fair amount of time between the closing for press and the thing hitting the streets.
[email protected] will be happy to receive information on new prominent landmarks for inclusion on the site and on old landmarks that may no longer be prominent (like the radio telescope that remained on the chart for several years after it was dimantled)
Mike
OTH : FROM 04/04/22 10:29 TO PERM B0681/04
E)AIR NAVIGATION OBSTACLE.
STOKENCHURCH (REF NUMBER 230D121) SINGLE RTM, POSITION 513954N
0005522W, HGT 1111FT AMSL 327FT AGL, NOT LIT
UK AIP ENR 5-4-1-8 REFERS.
Also see
The Chart Amendments There are 12 to this chart already.
Remember there is fair amount of time between the closing for press and the thing hitting the streets.
[email protected] will be happy to receive information on new prominent landmarks for inclusion on the site and on old landmarks that may no longer be prominent (like the radio telescope that remained on the chart for several years after it was dimantled)
Mike