Thoughts on Microlights!!
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Thoughts on Microlights!!
Well I'll try this here, you see i'm thinking of taking up microfright flying, already hold a SEP licence but find the cost a bit high at nearly £100/hr. I was thinking that owning a flex wing costing about £4k would be affordable to myself with the aded flexibilty of owning my own machine. I see the basic homebuilts can be had for a similar price so that could be an option. I will try and visit one of the schools around to arrange a flight to see if I like it!! Any one here have any thoughts??
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I think the answer to your question depends a lot on whether you fly for the love of being in the air or whether you fly because it is a faster way of getting about.
If the answer is the former, I suggest you go out and buy yourself something like a Mainair and blast around. If your answer is the latter, go buy a share in a large group on a complex single for the same amount.
Sorry to sound blunt but the pub apened 45 minutes ago.
If the answer is the former, I suggest you go out and buy yourself something like a Mainair and blast around. If your answer is the latter, go buy a share in a large group on a complex single for the same amount.
Sorry to sound blunt but the pub apened 45 minutes ago.
I'm a fan of both.
I love flying, and I love travelling by air.
By and large, the PA28 that costs me £60/hr in a big syndicate satisfies my love of travelling by air. My £4k flexwing equally satisfies my love of flying, at a cost of around £25/hr all-in. I'd be very loath to give up either.
It is as cheap as they tell you, they are very slow (plan on a 40kn cruise and you won't be far out), they will fly from a pocket handkerchief, you will have to look after it yourself, you can put it on a trailer and take it on holiday, and you can always divert any "microlights aren't real aeroplanes" bar talk by asking the noisiest proponent of that view how many hours they flew last week / month / year in their own aeroplane. It will take you a couple of years before you can tackle the sort of weather conditions that you can in the SEP, particularly crosswinds and turbulence.
You won't find anything cheaper or easier to run than a flexwing, nor anything as easy to trailer and take on holiday with you. You will as an SEP licensed pilot take probably twice as much training as you expect, and probably more than some ab-initio students to get checked out - just live with that, it's nothing to be ashamed of.
As to types, I'd personally go for a Raven, Flash 1, Pegasus XL or Pegasus Q, preferably with a Rotax 503 (447 is fine except a little underpowered for pax carrying in the Raven, 462 works okay but is a little more maintenance intensive, Fuji Robin engined aircraft are dirt cheap, but parts are hard to come by). All of those will give you a decent 2-seater for under £4k, possibly under £3k if you get a bargain.
And try and get a deal that includes a trailer, intercom and helmets - otherwise you'll end up spending another £½-1k.
Oh yes, and join the BMAA - that's the source of all wisdom, and their magazine contains the best classified adds.
G
I love flying, and I love travelling by air.
By and large, the PA28 that costs me £60/hr in a big syndicate satisfies my love of travelling by air. My £4k flexwing equally satisfies my love of flying, at a cost of around £25/hr all-in. I'd be very loath to give up either.
It is as cheap as they tell you, they are very slow (plan on a 40kn cruise and you won't be far out), they will fly from a pocket handkerchief, you will have to look after it yourself, you can put it on a trailer and take it on holiday, and you can always divert any "microlights aren't real aeroplanes" bar talk by asking the noisiest proponent of that view how many hours they flew last week / month / year in their own aeroplane. It will take you a couple of years before you can tackle the sort of weather conditions that you can in the SEP, particularly crosswinds and turbulence.
You won't find anything cheaper or easier to run than a flexwing, nor anything as easy to trailer and take on holiday with you. You will as an SEP licensed pilot take probably twice as much training as you expect, and probably more than some ab-initio students to get checked out - just live with that, it's nothing to be ashamed of.
As to types, I'd personally go for a Raven, Flash 1, Pegasus XL or Pegasus Q, preferably with a Rotax 503 (447 is fine except a little underpowered for pax carrying in the Raven, 462 works okay but is a little more maintenance intensive, Fuji Robin engined aircraft are dirt cheap, but parts are hard to come by). All of those will give you a decent 2-seater for under £4k, possibly under £3k if you get a bargain.
And try and get a deal that includes a trailer, intercom and helmets - otherwise you'll end up spending another £½-1k.
Oh yes, and join the BMAA - that's the source of all wisdom, and their magazine contains the best classified adds.
G
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I too fly in a SEP group as well as owning my own microlight.
Ownership does have the huge advantage of allowing you to use the aircraft whenever you like, and go away for as long as you like, so a £4k microlight would certainly let you take to the air whenever you felt like it, rather than having to work around other group members.
Some microlights do let you travel too; my Easter weekend involved flying from London down to Avranches (10 miles east of Le Mont Saint Michel) on Friday, back to London on Saturday with a lunch stop at L'Escale at L2K, up to Cromer on the north Norfolk coast and back on Sunday, then down to the delightful little private field at Verchocq (about 7 miles SE of BNE) for lunch today.
Theoretically I could have done it 40% faster in the group SR20, but in reality I couldn't really have expected to monopolise a shared aircraft for the whole of Easter.
Ownership does have the huge advantage of allowing you to use the aircraft whenever you like, and go away for as long as you like, so a £4k microlight would certainly let you take to the air whenever you felt like it, rather than having to work around other group members.
Some microlights do let you travel too; my Easter weekend involved flying from London down to Avranches (10 miles east of Le Mont Saint Michel) on Friday, back to London on Saturday with a lunch stop at L'Escale at L2K, up to Cromer on the north Norfolk coast and back on Sunday, then down to the delightful little private field at Verchocq (about 7 miles SE of BNE) for lunch today.
Theoretically I could have done it 40% faster in the group SR20, but in reality I couldn't really have expected to monopolise a shared aircraft for the whole of Easter.
Just in case you missed it, Fly Stimulator's microlight, whilst a very nice flying machine - did not cost £4k !
These 100kn+ microlight "hot ships" are becoming very popular, and they are still flown on a microlight licence, at typical (~£25/hr) microlight operating costs. But they do retail at rather closer to light aircraft prices.
G
These 100kn+ microlight "hot ships" are becoming very popular, and they are still flown on a microlight licence, at typical (~£25/hr) microlight operating costs. But they do retail at rather closer to light aircraft prices.
G
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Genghis,
Sadly true; the price did start with a '4' though!
I had two points mixed in together really:
1 - Outright ownership (of any type of course) allows one to be totally selfish with the use of the machine
2 - Some microlights can be used for going reasonably far afield
Sadly true; the price did start with a '4' though!
I had two points mixed in together really:
1 - Outright ownership (of any type of course) allows one to be totally selfish with the use of the machine
2 - Some microlights can be used for going reasonably far afield
Some microlights can be used for going reasonably far afield
G
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I too have considered adding a PPL(D) to a PPL(A) for a while now. I've read that the PPL(D) course is 25 hours. What is the dispensation regarding hours and ground school when you already fly SEP and have 400 hours and how do you differentiate in your logbook regarding your SEP hours and microlight hours or, as I presume, do you keep separate books.
FBNick
FBNick
It's only differences training now, the requirement for GFT that used to be there went away a year or so ago.
With your experience I'd expect 1-2 hours for a 3-axis microlight conversion (probably a little more if it's something more slow and draggy like a TST), and 8-12 hours for a flexwing conversion.
Personally I just amended a couple of columns (multi-engine ones in my case) that I wasn't using in my existing logbook. I think that some people keep separate logbooks, but that seems a bit fiddly to me.
And you need to maintain both currency requirements - 12 hours in the second of 2 years for SEP, 5 hours in 13 months for microlight.
G
With your experience I'd expect 1-2 hours for a 3-axis microlight conversion (probably a little more if it's something more slow and draggy like a TST), and 8-12 hours for a flexwing conversion.
Personally I just amended a couple of columns (multi-engine ones in my case) that I wasn't using in my existing logbook. I think that some people keep separate logbooks, but that seems a bit fiddly to me.
And you need to maintain both currency requirements - 12 hours in the second of 2 years for SEP, 5 hours in 13 months for microlight.
G
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Like youself I am a PPL A flyer and decided to buy a cheap weight shift microlight recently to help reduce the finacial burden or so I thought. It was quite a suprise to me what a significant difference it was learning to fly this kind of craft. It is enjoyable but so different.
Its left me with a bit of a dilema as I still want to fly the fixed wing aircraft and continue with the weightshift. So at present Iam paying out for both. I am sure it was a good plan when I thought it through.
Good luck with your plans
Its left me with a bit of a dilema as I still want to fly the fixed wing aircraft and continue with the weightshift. So at present Iam paying out for both. I am sure it was a good plan when I thought it through.
Good luck with your plans
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Flexwings are fun, but somewhat limited by the conditions in which you can fly them. We are operating Apollo Jetstars, a Hungarian built machine with Rotax 582's.
Our operating base is in the middle of a major city and about two miles to the side of an international airport. We are therefore limited to a maximum flying height of 500 feet within a closed circuit. Cross country flying is forbidden, as is carrying female passengers
Personally, I'm waiting patiently until the day we are allowed to operate fixed wing aircraft, but until then, i will enjoy the 3-4 hours of free flying that i get to do most weekends.
Mutt.
Our operating base is in the middle of a major city and about two miles to the side of an international airport. We are therefore limited to a maximum flying height of 500 feet within a closed circuit. Cross country flying is forbidden, as is carrying female passengers
Personally, I'm waiting patiently until the day we are allowed to operate fixed wing aircraft, but until then, i will enjoy the 3-4 hours of free flying that i get to do most weekends.
Mutt.
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I am also intrigued Mutt. There isn't much room for hanky panky in a flexwing 
We started a club for microlight pilots in Essex and now have nearly 40 members. Approx 30% are pilots that have migrated from GA, the rest have only ever flown microlights. Some are like Flight Stim and Genghis, who stay current on both. The cost is a big issue and if you fly for fun, you'll get over 4 times the hours in, for the same cost as renting a PA28.
The limiting factor is mostly wind strength. A 20kt headwind does make for a long trip. Crosswind limits are not that dissimilar to many light GA types.
One comment that I often hear is that GA pilots consider they are safer after doing the conversion, as microlight training focusses very heavily on engine out practices. You constantly ask yourself "where will I go if it stops now?" Whilst GA training does have this element, many GA pilots fly as though the engine will never stop. This training goes back to the early days when they were unrelaible. Modern microlights are very reliable, to the extent that I have heard the restriction on overflying built up areas is likely to change to the GA rule, allowing this if able to glide clear.
Another reason many people fly microlights is the comradery (sp?) There are fly-ins almost every weekend through the summer and many clubs/groups arrange impromtu trips, just for the sake of it. GA and heli's tend to go somewhere alone where as microlight pilots often fly in groups.
Generalisations never work for long and you will only find out if its for you by trying it. The lucky pilots are those like Blind Lemon, Fly Stim and Genghis, that do both.
Anyway, here's where we went at the weekend.
We started a club for microlight pilots in Essex and now have nearly 40 members. Approx 30% are pilots that have migrated from GA, the rest have only ever flown microlights. Some are like Flight Stim and Genghis, who stay current on both. The cost is a big issue and if you fly for fun, you'll get over 4 times the hours in, for the same cost as renting a PA28.
The limiting factor is mostly wind strength. A 20kt headwind does make for a long trip. Crosswind limits are not that dissimilar to many light GA types.
One comment that I often hear is that GA pilots consider they are safer after doing the conversion, as microlight training focusses very heavily on engine out practices. You constantly ask yourself "where will I go if it stops now?" Whilst GA training does have this element, many GA pilots fly as though the engine will never stop. This training goes back to the early days when they were unrelaible. Modern microlights are very reliable, to the extent that I have heard the restriction on overflying built up areas is likely to change to the GA rule, allowing this if able to glide clear.
Another reason many people fly microlights is the comradery (sp?) There are fly-ins almost every weekend through the summer and many clubs/groups arrange impromtu trips, just for the sake of it. GA and heli's tend to go somewhere alone where as microlight pilots often fly in groups.
Generalisations never work for long and you will only find out if its for you by trying it. The lucky pilots are those like Blind Lemon, Fly Stim and Genghis, that do both.
Anyway, here's where we went at the weekend.
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So Blind Melon are you saying you made a bad choice? I'm like you as i'd like to keep my PPL(A) current but the cost of converting would be around £800+ which is a lot of fixed wing flying! Maybe I should look at VP1's, Turbulents or similar. Though one 3-axis microlight that intrests me is the Minimax, any one got much to say on them?
Flying for me is for the fun and freedom it gives thats why I don't like hiring, it constrains me too much.
In the meantime I'll dream like I have for the past 15 years!
Flying for me is for the fun and freedom it gives thats why I don't like hiring, it constrains me too much.
In the meantime I'll dream like I have for the past 15 years!
