Real Pilots?????
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Enniskillen
Real Pilots?????
Just a thought on the quality of the average PPL today.
Seems to me we don't produce the goods anymore. Is it that we have lost most of our good old instructors? Or has the whole PPL setup become too easy?
I had my first lesson 30 years ago this year and I would like to know if others in the "near 50" age group feel the same???
TR
Seems to me we don't produce the goods anymore. Is it that we have lost most of our good old instructors? Or has the whole PPL setup become too easy?
I had my first lesson 30 years ago this year and I would like to know if others in the "near 50" age group feel the same???
TR
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 169
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From: Job Centre
When I were a lad, we used to dream of a hole in the ground . . .
then, the syllabus used to be
Loads a flying while having loads a fun
plus
A couple of slim volumes of "Flight briefing for pilots"
Now you need a PhD in English lit. before you buy a shelf full of books and a flight bag full of headsets, plotters, kneepads, maps, Pooleys, Lockyears, checklists. And a degree in computer science so you can access the AIS, the Met, not to mention the pinks, yellows, the GPS and w.h.y.
Oh yes, and then you do some flying, while wondering about CAS, mid-airs and not using the right words on the radio
I do think the skills test checklist is much more demanding now, but does it mean that the skills test itself sorts the wheat from the chaff ?
AND the statistics seem to say that it's a helluva lot safer these days.
But is it more fun ??
S. Driver
then, the syllabus used to be
Loads a flying while having loads a fun
plus
A couple of slim volumes of "Flight briefing for pilots"
Now you need a PhD in English lit. before you buy a shelf full of books and a flight bag full of headsets, plotters, kneepads, maps, Pooleys, Lockyears, checklists. And a degree in computer science so you can access the AIS, the Met, not to mention the pinks, yellows, the GPS and w.h.y.
Oh yes, and then you do some flying, while wondering about CAS, mid-airs and not using the right words on the radio
I do think the skills test checklist is much more demanding now, but does it mean that the skills test itself sorts the wheat from the chaff ?
AND the statistics seem to say that it's a helluva lot safer these days.
But is it more fun ??
S. Driver
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Enniskillen
perhaps your right but I think many PPLs are geared up to pass the skills test and thats it. It should be after the test when they really learn to fly but so many are "dumpted" by their instructors / schools and never progress very far.
Years ago young PPLs were invited along with others and quickly gained experience, I dont think this happens to the same extent.
Have we, (slightly) older pilots become less willing to share the experience??
TR
Years ago young PPLs were invited along with others and quickly gained experience, I dont think this happens to the same extent.
Have we, (slightly) older pilots become less willing to share the experience??
TR
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 41
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From: Scotland
I think that the standards have indeed lapsed, and I'm apalled at the flying ability of some PPLs. My opinion is that flying schools, being motivated to churn out as many PPLs as possible, are compromising on the quality of instruction. Most worryingly, since they often employ their own examiners, candidates are often passed even though their performance during the test is not up to scratch. One examiner in Scotland (I shall mention no names) has even been known to do the R/T for the student during tests!!! I shan't even get onto the subject of US-based flying schools offering JAA PPLs, surfice to say that some of the worst pilots I have even encountered got their licences in the US.
What we need is a return to good old-fashioned flying clubs that are not constantly chasing profits.
What we need is a return to good old-fashioned flying clubs that are not constantly chasing profits.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
I think it all comes down to money, but not profit necessarily.
Flying has become so expensive that instructors are under pressure to get students through in the absolute minimum of hours, and then PPLs are often flying far less hours than would allow them to become genuinely experienced and current.
G
Flying has become so expensive that instructors are under pressure to get students through in the absolute minimum of hours, and then PPLs are often flying far less hours than would allow them to become genuinely experienced and current.
G
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 76
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From: Down South
Intresting one this,
As a younger member, it is difficult to gage if standards have changed or not BUT, is there a similarity here with what people say about A-Levels and GSCE's i.e. havn't they got easier?! And it is a difficult one to answer.
My only extra observation is that the sylabus has changed. For instance when I did my PPL there was no need to do any basic radio nav what so ever, where as now......? surely this is an improvment?
FW
appalled by some of the flying ??? can you quantify this? What exactly appals you? airmanship? or actual skill level? competancy / safety? I am intrested to know whats getting to you.
As a younger member, it is difficult to gage if standards have changed or not BUT, is there a similarity here with what people say about A-Levels and GSCE's i.e. havn't they got easier?! And it is a difficult one to answer.
My only extra observation is that the sylabus has changed. For instance when I did my PPL there was no need to do any basic radio nav what so ever, where as now......? surely this is an improvment?
FW
appalled by some of the flying ??? can you quantify this? What exactly appals you? airmanship? or actual skill level? competancy / safety? I am intrested to know whats getting to you.
Joined: Apr 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 680
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From: An Airport Near You
What element of peoples flying is 'appalling'?! I'm sure that there are PPL holders of all age and experience who can be deemed better or worse in a variety of areas.
Just because you got your PPL 30 years ago in the 'Old School' doesn't necessarily make you a better pilot!
Just because you got your PPL 30 years ago in the 'Old School' doesn't necessarily make you a better pilot!
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 479
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From: Enniskillen
I was talking to a 21 year old, 12 hour Student Pilot the other day and he was showing me his new top of the range GPS and his new ANR £600 quid headset and his new electronic flight computer and he was wearing a new leather flight jacket and £200 sunglasses.
No comment I guess I'm just jelous.
My first lessons were in an aircraft with no intercom, one radio and a hand mike.
Suppose I also had a crap car then too
No comment I guess I'm just jelous.
My first lessons were in an aircraft with no intercom, one radio and a hand mike.
Suppose I also had a crap car then too
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 87
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From: N E England
Quote"Just because you got your PPL 30 years ago in the 'Old School' doesn't necessarily make you a better pilot!"
I think it is great to see so many young people learning to fly and would want as many as possible to do so but I too think we have lost much of the airmanship taught by the "OLDER" instructors.
The problem is many young PPLs are not getting the big picture when flying. Perhaps it is because they play with too many toys in the a/c.
JB
I think it is great to see so many young people learning to fly and would want as many as possible to do so but I too think we have lost much of the airmanship taught by the "OLDER" instructors.
The problem is many young PPLs are not getting the big picture when flying. Perhaps it is because they play with too many toys in the a/c.
JB
Flies for fun
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: Wishing it was somewhere sunny!
When I was a boy, some of the old folk used to say about younger people “they don’t train em like they used to” and now I’m old myself, some of the old folk still say exactly the same!
Could it be that the younger people just don’t have the experience of the older people? Funny thing that, I wonder why?
Could it be that the younger people just don’t have the experience of the older people? Funny thing that, I wonder why?
Joined: Apr 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 680
Likes: 2
From: An Airport Near You
As an ATCO I can safely say that there are just as many 'not-so-good' young PPL holders as there are old.
If a student pilot decides to buy expensive equipment and accessories does that make them a bad pilot?.....I think not.
Quote;The problem is many young PPLs are not getting the big picture when flying. Perhaps it is because they play with too many toys in the a/c.
What utter rubbish! You could then argue that older, perhaps slower thinking, pilots would be more dangerous playing with 'toys in the a/c' as they're not quite as good with gadgets as the younger generation!
I have seen a greater number of incidents/bad airmanship etc at the class G unit I work at involving older pilots than young........and many of them have had licences for donkeys years!
If a student pilot decides to buy expensive equipment and accessories does that make them a bad pilot?.....I think not.
Quote;The problem is many young PPLs are not getting the big picture when flying. Perhaps it is because they play with too many toys in the a/c.
What utter rubbish! You could then argue that older, perhaps slower thinking, pilots would be more dangerous playing with 'toys in the a/c' as they're not quite as good with gadgets as the younger generation!
I have seen a greater number of incidents/bad airmanship etc at the class G unit I work at involving older pilots than young........and many of them have had licences for donkeys years!
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: don't know, I'll ask
The problem is that money is now the only requirement to get into flyng, followed by a quick trip to the local rental shop. Far better when one flew one's father's aircraft, before the advent of mass access to aviation. It has let in some awfully common types and aviation is no better for it; I have even seen people in baseball caps with tatoos.
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