Real Pilots?????
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: N E England
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope we are now agreeing that young instructors should be encouraged to continue as instructors. That some CFIs should be a bit more interested in keeping their instructors.
I think we can all learn from one an other and perhaps people like me should be flying more often with the young instructors, giving them a chance to fly a different aircraft to a different place.
(ie. 180 Knot Mooney to La Rochelle twice a Month)
I still think the 1000 hours suggested would be a good place to start for an instructor rating though.
JB
I think we can all learn from one an other and perhaps people like me should be flying more often with the young instructors, giving them a chance to fly a different aircraft to a different place.
(ie. 180 Knot Mooney to La Rochelle twice a Month)
I still think the 1000 hours suggested would be a good place to start for an instructor rating though.
JB
I had to post as I actually agree with BoseX and I was amazed, he is dead right though. Today people are taught that they have rights; no-one ever mentions the responsibilities that go along with those rights.
Sorry it's wildly off thread.
Sorry it's wildly off thread.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Enniskillen
Age: 67
Posts: 479
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what do "we" do about encouraging more kids to learn to fly?
I am sure you all agree that in spite of all the moaners in our midst most of us are better people because we fly. If we can give a few kids a helping hand to become a pilot then it will be a few less on the street corner and a few more bad sastards sitting wasting time posting rubbish here.
TR
I am sure you all agree that in spite of all the moaners in our midst most of us are better people because we fly. If we can give a few kids a helping hand to become a pilot then it will be a few less on the street corner and a few more bad sastards sitting wasting time posting rubbish here.
TR
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
So what do "we" do about encouraging more kids to learn to fly?
Not practical politics, however, I'm afraid.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Abingdon, Oxfordshire, U.K.
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How to get more kids to fly? Take them flying in the first place. Let them know it's possible and that they can do it. Point them towards the PFA Young Eagles scheme. Learning to fly Power is fairly impractical unless said kid is exceedingly well off but gliding is relatively cheap. Many Gliding clubs operate a Cadet Scheme which reduces costs even furthur and the added advantage is that learning to glide at a member run club, where all the work is done by the members themselves will either teach the kid to pull his weight and be rewarded with 'respect' or confirm that he is not worth bothering about anyway. There is so much to be learned in such an environment and responsibility will be passed to the person who is able , not the biggest or the oldest.
I could go on but I'm sure you know what I am getting at.
Mike W
I could go on but I'm sure you know what I am getting at.
Mike W
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Norfolk, England
Age: 58
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with Skylark about the gliding bit. Certainly for youngsters with time on their hands gliding is a wonderful introduction to flight (wonderful in it's own right too of course) and a great "social" conditioner. A good gliding club will encourage kids to be a part of a team without which the whole club would grind to a holt. It's also one of the few situations where teenagers and pensioners regularly learn to work together for a common goal.
This can only be good for young people where they learn that they have to be responsible for their own and others safety and where they soon realise that the more they give generally pays dividends in what the recieve.
Plus of course gliding experience does help make REAL PILOTS
SS
This can only be good for young people where they learn that they have to be responsible for their own and others safety and where they soon realise that the more they give generally pays dividends in what the recieve.
Plus of course gliding experience does help make REAL PILOTS
SS
Right then chaps.
Now, I've been a PPL, an hours building PPL instructor, a commercial career instructor with BAE and I've been an airline pilot. I became a flying instructor at the age of 19 with less than 120hrs to my logbook - and I was good.
So, I perhaps have some overall perspective that others lack.
You can't generalise. You can't say all women can't reverse or that all Scots are tight fisted.
In my first 500hrs of instructing I was as kean as mustard and worked like a little beaver at every aspect of every lesson. By a 1,000hrs I was a little more jaded but a bit more competent. By 2,000hrs I was hacked off with instructing and so left and doubled my wages overnight.
You tell me at which point of my instructing career curve was I giving the best service? I can't tell you to be honest - probably around the 500hrs mark truth be known. I was just about developing my style and confidence and was still dead keen.
The part time instructor who does something else is OK but rarely can they do you a whole PPL course with any kind of continuity and to paraphrase Roy Castle - Continuity's What You Need.
-----
I think PPLs are now graduating with better knowledge for flying and have much better technology at their disposal. I think though that they don't tend to go on to develop their skills and I think this is down to the cost and cruminess of GA in the UK.
Its just too expensive, too crowded, too tatty with too little scenery and too many rules.
-----
I think what should happen is that the regulator and the government should change their stance on GA. The training could be brought under the auspices of any other vocational training and be eligible for a small grant and be VAT free. The CAA could instigate massively subsidised GA certification programmes that would result in the likes of the diesel Diamonds coming bang onto the market at sensible replacement prices.
Whallop! Suddenly training just got a lot cheaper. The aircraft got 50% cheaper to run and GA became a lot more interesting with modern, glass, good performance aircraft in which you really could afford to go to France for the weekend in.
The VAT and training grants (perhaps they pay the test and CAA fees for license issue) would be paltry to the treasury. The cost to the CAA of supporting certification for the next decade would:
a) be covered by the fees they get from one small regional airline in one month, and
b) be recouped over the coming decades by the now much bigger and better GA scene anyway.
------
And finally. Be very careful before you start talking about Real Pilots and who is better or best. One thing I have learned and seen in flying is that there is always someone in the corner who does it faster, higher, longer or better than you and they probably are younger and slicker with a bigger watch to boot.
You're only ever as good as your last checkride.
Cheers
WWW
Now, I've been a PPL, an hours building PPL instructor, a commercial career instructor with BAE and I've been an airline pilot. I became a flying instructor at the age of 19 with less than 120hrs to my logbook - and I was good.
So, I perhaps have some overall perspective that others lack.
You can't generalise. You can't say all women can't reverse or that all Scots are tight fisted.
In my first 500hrs of instructing I was as kean as mustard and worked like a little beaver at every aspect of every lesson. By a 1,000hrs I was a little more jaded but a bit more competent. By 2,000hrs I was hacked off with instructing and so left and doubled my wages overnight.
You tell me at which point of my instructing career curve was I giving the best service? I can't tell you to be honest - probably around the 500hrs mark truth be known. I was just about developing my style and confidence and was still dead keen.
The part time instructor who does something else is OK but rarely can they do you a whole PPL course with any kind of continuity and to paraphrase Roy Castle - Continuity's What You Need.
-----
I think PPLs are now graduating with better knowledge for flying and have much better technology at their disposal. I think though that they don't tend to go on to develop their skills and I think this is down to the cost and cruminess of GA in the UK.
Its just too expensive, too crowded, too tatty with too little scenery and too many rules.
-----
I think what should happen is that the regulator and the government should change their stance on GA. The training could be brought under the auspices of any other vocational training and be eligible for a small grant and be VAT free. The CAA could instigate massively subsidised GA certification programmes that would result in the likes of the diesel Diamonds coming bang onto the market at sensible replacement prices.
Whallop! Suddenly training just got a lot cheaper. The aircraft got 50% cheaper to run and GA became a lot more interesting with modern, glass, good performance aircraft in which you really could afford to go to France for the weekend in.
The VAT and training grants (perhaps they pay the test and CAA fees for license issue) would be paltry to the treasury. The cost to the CAA of supporting certification for the next decade would:
a) be covered by the fees they get from one small regional airline in one month, and
b) be recouped over the coming decades by the now much bigger and better GA scene anyway.
------
And finally. Be very careful before you start talking about Real Pilots and who is better or best. One thing I have learned and seen in flying is that there is always someone in the corner who does it faster, higher, longer or better than you and they probably are younger and slicker with a bigger watch to boot.
You're only ever as good as your last checkride.
Cheers
WWW
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would say that the level of aptitude of a pilot is definitely proportional to his / her age.
It is the same with driving cars. There are different groups.
The new driver thinks he knows it all but is quite honestly lethal under certain circumstances. He has excellent reactions but still doesn't quite know how to maximise them. Decision making can be poor due to lack of experience.
The driver who has driven for 10 years/covered quite a few thousand miles is pretty safe and has reached the top of the learning curve. Decision making can be based on experience and reactions are still good. Complacency might be the single most important downside to this bracket.
The driver who is approaching a more senior age who won't actually admit that his reflexes are slowing down or that his distance and speed judgement is gradually deteriorating. It is this one who offsets his degrading performance with the justification of having "lots of experience". In certain situations the experience is certainly going to help him. In others it might lead him into dangerous situations.
The driver who really is past their sell by date and actually causes accidents due to their dangerous approach. (Exactly why pilots and drivers eventually have to hang up their keys).
Just my views on a Wednesday night anyway.
It is the same with driving cars. There are different groups.
The new driver thinks he knows it all but is quite honestly lethal under certain circumstances. He has excellent reactions but still doesn't quite know how to maximise them. Decision making can be poor due to lack of experience.
The driver who has driven for 10 years/covered quite a few thousand miles is pretty safe and has reached the top of the learning curve. Decision making can be based on experience and reactions are still good. Complacency might be the single most important downside to this bracket.
The driver who is approaching a more senior age who won't actually admit that his reflexes are slowing down or that his distance and speed judgement is gradually deteriorating. It is this one who offsets his degrading performance with the justification of having "lots of experience". In certain situations the experience is certainly going to help him. In others it might lead him into dangerous situations.
The driver who really is past their sell by date and actually causes accidents due to their dangerous approach. (Exactly why pilots and drivers eventually have to hang up their keys).
Just my views on a Wednesday night anyway.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Norfolk, England
Age: 58
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And then of course there's luck! ... be you good or bad, lady luck will play her hand. WW2 pilots swore by luck and who are we to critisise them? ... just hope you get more good than bad! 
SS
SS
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: N E England
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it might have been his mates who invented the poster
''Dont ask anyone here if they are an instructor, if they are they will tell you''
JB
''Dont ask anyone here if they are an instructor, if they are they will tell you''
JB
Last edited by jbqc; 9th Apr 2004 at 11:01.
