Bad Passengers........
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I agreed to take a youth flying who had a "learning difficulty" - a boy whose behaviour in the air was perfect. Only after we landed did his "carer" tell me that his difficulty was spontaneous bouts of uncontrolable rage...........and she was amazed that he hadn't thrown a wobbly in the air. What on earth made her think that he was a suitable passenger in a 2-seat aircraft???????? Next time I'll ask more questions before agreeing.
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Some interesting stories, but most passengers are obviously 'normal' folks. Or at least not more derailled than the pilots hauling them along!
I love taking people if they are genuinely keen but flown enough folks around that just wanted to have a go so they can have the tick in the box.
As for kids, they are usually fine. The youngest I have taken any of mine was 5 months and that was just for a quick circuit to see that all was well (think mum was more worried about how nipper would be than nipper)
Make sure that they are safely restrained in a car seat or something of that ilk and if possible make them wear a headset (a proper one so that you can talk to them - funny concept for them so be ready for some funny questions)
One of my best moments so far was taking my then 2,5 year old up in the Condor and fly for a BBQ to Bourn. Singing all the way there and after landing she said: 'That was super' Snuggled up on the way back soundly asleep after T/O.
Will never forget those moments.
Have fun!
FD
I love taking people if they are genuinely keen but flown enough folks around that just wanted to have a go so they can have the tick in the box.
As for kids, they are usually fine. The youngest I have taken any of mine was 5 months and that was just for a quick circuit to see that all was well (think mum was more worried about how nipper would be than nipper)
Make sure that they are safely restrained in a car seat or something of that ilk and if possible make them wear a headset (a proper one so that you can talk to them - funny concept for them so be ready for some funny questions)
One of my best moments so far was taking my then 2,5 year old up in the Condor and fly for a BBQ to Bourn. Singing all the way there and after landing she said: 'That was super' Snuggled up on the way back soundly asleep after T/O.
Will never forget those moments.
Have fun!
FD
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Great stories !
I still have flashbacks of my daughter (then 8) grabbing the stick in the club T67 - fortunately at a significant altitude.
But
At risk of being a miserable b####r,
for my own protection, these days I would only take up other people's under 16's of either gender in a tandem cockpit, or in a 4 seater with another responsible adult along as well (preferably a matronly type).
A sad reflection on the times we live in.
S. Driver
I still have flashbacks of my daughter (then 8) grabbing the stick in the club T67 - fortunately at a significant altitude.
But
At risk of being a miserable b####r,
for my own protection, these days I would only take up other people's under 16's of either gender in a tandem cockpit, or in a 4 seater with another responsible adult along as well (preferably a matronly type).
A sad reflection on the times we live in.
S. Driver
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Was giving a guy his first twin engine lesson afew years back, his Father who was an Aircraft Engineer came back seat for a ride. He spent most of the hour yelling Instructions at his son, and telling him a much better way to do things..........
After the flight he showed his son a 2 hour preflight inspection, covering everything I had missed !
After telling Dad he was not welcome for the next flight he let go with how little I new, I happily gave him the phone numbers for my boss, and the CAA, to voice his concerns.
I never heard back from either, but Son did very well when Dad did not fly back seat again !
After the flight he showed his son a 2 hour preflight inspection, covering everything I had missed !
After telling Dad he was not welcome for the next flight he let go with how little I new, I happily gave him the phone numbers for my boss, and the CAA, to voice his concerns.
I never heard back from either, but Son did very well when Dad did not fly back seat again !
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Over the past 4 years, I never had any problems with the girls (now 10 and 9) in the back… until yesterday in fact.
The difference? I rented my first ever plane with headset connections in the back, and thought they would enjoy the flight more if they could talk to me and Mrs KCDW.
What a nightmare. Screams, giggling, endless comments like “chocks away”, and “tally ho”, and “this is Pink airlines, and we are your hostesses today”, just as we are taking off and landing. Pointless questions, like: “are we in France yet?” (we were off to Duxford).
I lost count of the number of times I almost said “shut the f**k up”.
Mrs KCDW summed it up perfectly. “Children should be seen and not heard, and we’ve got it the other way round”!
The difference? I rented my first ever plane with headset connections in the back, and thought they would enjoy the flight more if they could talk to me and Mrs KCDW.
What a nightmare. Screams, giggling, endless comments like “chocks away”, and “tally ho”, and “this is Pink airlines, and we are your hostesses today”, just as we are taking off and landing. Pointless questions, like: “are we in France yet?” (we were off to Duxford).
I lost count of the number of times I almost said “shut the f**k up”.
Mrs KCDW summed it up perfectly. “Children should be seen and not heard, and we’ve got it the other way round”!
PPruNaholic!
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I lost count of the number of times I almost said “shut the f**k up”.
I had just switched to Cranfield to listen out for a gap in the r/t so I could call... passing through a shower, slightly poor vis etc. The girls in the back were carrying on a bit - teasing each other, e.g. "she pulled my hair", "no I did not", etc. (I'm sure all parents will know what I mean!). Annoyed that I couldn't concentrate and exasperated at being ignored when my shouts at them to "shut up" were ignored, in the end I resorted to "making my presence felt" by taking a swipe at them in in the back seats, whilst flying with the other hand. Didn't connect (of course - what do you take me for!?) but this eventually had the desired effect on the girls... but not a great affect on my flying!
Since then I prefer to fly whenever possible in an a/c which has an "isolate" function on the intercom
Andy
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Old man Rimmer exposed me to commiting aviation when about eight or nine - J3 Cub within one or two flights it was effect of controls...turns the circuit and then landings (rollers and three pointers) Later he got me doing flight planning for cross-countries he had a 310 in those days - nav, fuel planning the lot - I loved it couldn't get enough (bear in mind this was a kid who hated doing maths at school and was always late with homewortk - if done at all). Of course in doing so the bastard did infect me with aviation-itis. On balance I'd say it's a good thing to expose kids to it early (depending on the kid - there is a certain Rimmer niece that is staying firmly on the ground no matter how many time sister-in-law hints)
On the other hand there was the time I took one of Mrs R's brothers for a fly. I should have known (he has the personality that the word to$$er was invented for) he noticed that the departure from 21 at Shoreham takes you a bit over the water Quick as a flash he says " We're over water - do we have lifejakets?" seeking to reassure I say "No we don't if we lost the engine - I'd aim to land either on the beach or possibly in one of those fields there". "No" says he "if we are over water we really should have life jackets" I go on to explain that if I planned any longer over water flying that not only would we have life jackets in the aircraft we'd be wearing them. But surprise, surprise that's not good enough "Well I think if you are over water at all you should have them... if the engine stops..."
By this time we are over Littlehampton (from whence the Mrs Rimmers come).. And he still won't stop crapping on about lifejackets (obviously the river Arun is playing on his mind).
So I decide to demonstrate a PFL - in a effort to allay his fears that we will plummet to earth if the the engine were indeed to cease... set up for Ford no worries at all (in fact I'm rather pleased with it) break off at 500' while explaining to B-I-L that you see all would be well - we'd just have a bit of a walk back to Shoreham blah blah.
"That's all very well but what if the wings fall off what then"?
"Well" says I "the only thing then would be to have a word with your boss" (he's a priest)
Long pause.....then "You mean there are no parachutes? We should have parachutes"
And so on and so forth - in fact he dosent stop going on about parachutes and lifejakets for the remainder of his stay (another three days!).
On the other hand there was the time I took one of Mrs R's brothers for a fly. I should have known (he has the personality that the word to$$er was invented for) he noticed that the departure from 21 at Shoreham takes you a bit over the water Quick as a flash he says " We're over water - do we have lifejakets?" seeking to reassure I say "No we don't if we lost the engine - I'd aim to land either on the beach or possibly in one of those fields there". "No" says he "if we are over water we really should have life jackets" I go on to explain that if I planned any longer over water flying that not only would we have life jackets in the aircraft we'd be wearing them. But surprise, surprise that's not good enough "Well I think if you are over water at all you should have them... if the engine stops..."
By this time we are over Littlehampton (from whence the Mrs Rimmers come).. And he still won't stop crapping on about lifejackets (obviously the river Arun is playing on his mind).
So I decide to demonstrate a PFL - in a effort to allay his fears that we will plummet to earth if the the engine were indeed to cease... set up for Ford no worries at all (in fact I'm rather pleased with it) break off at 500' while explaining to B-I-L that you see all would be well - we'd just have a bit of a walk back to Shoreham blah blah.
"That's all very well but what if the wings fall off what then"?
"Well" says I "the only thing then would be to have a word with your boss" (he's a priest)
Long pause.....then "You mean there are no parachutes? We should have parachutes"
And so on and so forth - in fact he dosent stop going on about parachutes and lifejakets for the remainder of his stay (another three days!).
Not so N, but still FG
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Serves you right for going flying with God-botherers. They ought to realise that aeroplanes are the work of Satan and leave them alone. Why didn't you just chuck him out? Angels can fly, can't they?*
* You'd have to check with Keef on this one, but I'm pretty sure that it was St Augustine, or maybe his pal Gregory the Great, who said "non angli sed angeli sunt" which roughly translates as "watch your angle of attack, they're anglicans".
* You'd have to check with Keef on this one, but I'm pretty sure that it was St Augustine, or maybe his pal Gregory the Great, who said "non angli sed angeli sunt" which roughly translates as "watch your angle of attack, they're anglicans".
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FNG - you are wrong!
St Augustine is the home of one of the States' foremost aerobatic females, Patty W and also boasts a renowned vendor of fine aerobatic aircraft.
Gregory - wasn't he a spotty Jockenese teenager?
(Have replied to your PM)
Stik
St Augustine is the home of one of the States' foremost aerobatic females, Patty W and also boasts a renowned vendor of fine aerobatic aircraft.
Gregory - wasn't he a spotty Jockenese teenager?
(Have replied to your PM)
Stik
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FNG too right - problem was Mrs R wanted him out of her hair and when Mrs R decides somthing then you do it...or risk...well it's too terrible to contemplate. Let me put it this way the roth of Mrs R will make even a strong man weep an plead for forgiveness
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
I doubt that my mother will ever want to fly with me (she gets airsick if she goes in the loft on a windy day), but she came out with a classic when I told her I was starting to fly gliders, several years ago.
"Isn't that a very dangerous sport"? she asked me, very concerned. When I told her it was sailplanes, not hang gliders and possibly safer than driving to the airfield, she immediately said "There you are, driving to the airfield AS WELL!".
Mothers, eh?
SD
"Isn't that a very dangerous sport"? she asked me, very concerned. When I told her it was sailplanes, not hang gliders and possibly safer than driving to the airfield, she immediately said "There you are, driving to the airfield AS WELL!".
Mothers, eh?
SD
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Mothers, eh?
Regards
OM
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Keep em coming boys & girls!
I am laid up at home with crutches and can't get out until at least next week!
Your stories are far better than day time TV, and I think I've seen all the programmes on Discovery Wings now!
I am laid up at home with crutches and can't get out until at least next week!
Your stories are far better than day time TV, and I think I've seen all the programmes on Discovery Wings now!
Not so N, but still FG
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I'm reviving this thread to mention a passenger who was not exactly bad, but did get a bit worried.
I went flying with a friend who is a bit of a technology geek. He knows a bit about flying, and loves techno gadgets of all kinds. As he's a bit of a Special Forces Counter Insurgency Spook wannabe as well, he loves all the "Roger Mike Charlie Victor Vector" rubbish that we get to do whilst flying.
Off we went in a very smartly turned out Bulldog intending to footle about over Essex. I collected an FIS from Southend and floated about a bit near Chelmsford. The aircraft had just had a dodgy alternator fixed (or, as it turned out, not fixed). My friend noticed the alternator warning light before I did. The ammeter confirmed that there was no positive charge. I reduced electrical load, recycled switches etc, but to no avail. No big deal. The battery must have been a bit flat after the previous alternator failure, and we lost the radio very quickly (although the transponder was still able to kick out a 7600 squawk, which was seen by D&D, of which more later).
I pointed out to my friend that, although we could not visit anywhere, we could still fly about a bit if he wanted to, as neither the wings nor the engine are powered by electricity, but he was very keen that we should land immediately and, to be fair, the emergency drills do indicate that this is what you should do. Back we went to North Weald, waggled our wings to say hello, and landed flapless with no difficulty. Quick phone calls to our destination and to Southend and a nice call from D&D who had spotted the squawk and were concerned that we were OK (thanks again, guys). Then it was time to adopt Plan Beer.
My friend had been quite rattled by what was, to me, a minor matter of trifling importance. The weather was clear, we were in the open FIR, and North Weald is uncontrolled. My friend also told me that he had generally felt that the aircraft was less safe than the Cap 10 I had previously taken him up in. Odd, that, as to my mind the Dog has a reassuringly chunky feel, and some people have thought the dainty wooden Cap a bit flimsy (wrongly assuming aluminium to be tougher than wood). My friend said that this was because the Bulldog's panel looks so decidedly old-tech (despite a nice stack of modern nav/com boxes in front of his seat). Perhaps this was in reality down to my rough flying (also, as I fly the Dog less often, and it is a little bit more complicated than the Cap, I had a checklist on my knee, which I don't in the Cap).
A number of points: (1) We are used to the quaint appearance of oldish aeroplanes, but to people used to modern car interiors, they probably look pretty bonkers. (2) Although I do fairly detailed passenger briefings, including what to expect if something goes wrong, you can't go into every possible eventuality, and in any event to do so might cause needless anxiety. (3) Notwithstanding these points, my friend is a bit of a wimp. Too techno-oriented for his own good. Nice leather jacket and gloves, though.
I went flying with a friend who is a bit of a technology geek. He knows a bit about flying, and loves techno gadgets of all kinds. As he's a bit of a Special Forces Counter Insurgency Spook wannabe as well, he loves all the "Roger Mike Charlie Victor Vector" rubbish that we get to do whilst flying.
Off we went in a very smartly turned out Bulldog intending to footle about over Essex. I collected an FIS from Southend and floated about a bit near Chelmsford. The aircraft had just had a dodgy alternator fixed (or, as it turned out, not fixed). My friend noticed the alternator warning light before I did. The ammeter confirmed that there was no positive charge. I reduced electrical load, recycled switches etc, but to no avail. No big deal. The battery must have been a bit flat after the previous alternator failure, and we lost the radio very quickly (although the transponder was still able to kick out a 7600 squawk, which was seen by D&D, of which more later).
I pointed out to my friend that, although we could not visit anywhere, we could still fly about a bit if he wanted to, as neither the wings nor the engine are powered by electricity, but he was very keen that we should land immediately and, to be fair, the emergency drills do indicate that this is what you should do. Back we went to North Weald, waggled our wings to say hello, and landed flapless with no difficulty. Quick phone calls to our destination and to Southend and a nice call from D&D who had spotted the squawk and were concerned that we were OK (thanks again, guys). Then it was time to adopt Plan Beer.
My friend had been quite rattled by what was, to me, a minor matter of trifling importance. The weather was clear, we were in the open FIR, and North Weald is uncontrolled. My friend also told me that he had generally felt that the aircraft was less safe than the Cap 10 I had previously taken him up in. Odd, that, as to my mind the Dog has a reassuringly chunky feel, and some people have thought the dainty wooden Cap a bit flimsy (wrongly assuming aluminium to be tougher than wood). My friend said that this was because the Bulldog's panel looks so decidedly old-tech (despite a nice stack of modern nav/com boxes in front of his seat). Perhaps this was in reality down to my rough flying (also, as I fly the Dog less often, and it is a little bit more complicated than the Cap, I had a checklist on my knee, which I don't in the Cap).
A number of points: (1) We are used to the quaint appearance of oldish aeroplanes, but to people used to modern car interiors, they probably look pretty bonkers. (2) Although I do fairly detailed passenger briefings, including what to expect if something goes wrong, you can't go into every possible eventuality, and in any event to do so might cause needless anxiety. (3) Notwithstanding these points, my friend is a bit of a wimp. Too techno-oriented for his own good. Nice leather jacket and gloves, though.
Last edited by FNG; 30th Apr 2004 at 08:53.
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I would love to see the state of the cockpit when "something gores wrong" (come to think of it, how does something gore right?)
That'd give your passengers something to think about, although they may be to pre-occupied removing the offending gore from their eyes and ears
That'd give your passengers something to think about, although they may be to pre-occupied removing the offending gore from their eyes and ears
Not so N, but still FG
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I'm very keen on bringing things back from the dead these days as I'm told that if you do there's a chance that Kate Beckinsale will kick the door down wearing some spray-on kung fu vampire-hunter kit .
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Although this doesn't quite compare to some of the other stories on this thread it still amazes me when I think back to it.
Last year I agreed to take an old friend for a flight over to Gloucester then for a quick bit of sightseeing over our old home town before going to look at Silverstone etc as he'd been asking for ages. The first hint of a bad day came when I was re-fuelling the plane before the flight and he came over and asked me in a rather loud voice "are all pilots geeks then?"
I rather curtly replied no and thanks very much for that insightful comment but maybe we should get going before we get lynched.
Things went ok after that until I asked him if he was enjoying it to which he replied "well, yeah it's ok but not very comfortable" I personally think PA28's can be quite comfortable with only 2up (I'm not that big!)
At Gloucester, ready to make my call for the return leg, and suddenly the control yoke moves fast back towards me and then starts waggling around. Quick look across to find my friend helpfully 'checking controls for full free movement!' shortly followed by some pressing of buttons on the radio stack. I decided at this point that we were going to head straight home, tried to get a zone transit through Brize and was told to remain clear etc so as I replied I hear my friend pipe up with 'Why can't you tell those f*****s to b****r off!' Thankfully I managed to let go off the ptt switch quickly enough before the swearing started.
Thankfully the rest of the flight went uneventfully but it will be a long time before we go up again!
Last year I agreed to take an old friend for a flight over to Gloucester then for a quick bit of sightseeing over our old home town before going to look at Silverstone etc as he'd been asking for ages. The first hint of a bad day came when I was re-fuelling the plane before the flight and he came over and asked me in a rather loud voice "are all pilots geeks then?"
I rather curtly replied no and thanks very much for that insightful comment but maybe we should get going before we get lynched.Things went ok after that until I asked him if he was enjoying it to which he replied "well, yeah it's ok but not very comfortable" I personally think PA28's can be quite comfortable with only 2up (I'm not that big!)
At Gloucester, ready to make my call for the return leg, and suddenly the control yoke moves fast back towards me and then starts waggling around. Quick look across to find my friend helpfully 'checking controls for full free movement!' shortly followed by some pressing of buttons on the radio stack. I decided at this point that we were going to head straight home, tried to get a zone transit through Brize and was told to remain clear etc so as I replied I hear my friend pipe up with 'Why can't you tell those f*****s to b****r off!' Thankfully I managed to let go off the ptt switch quickly enough before the swearing started.
Thankfully the rest of the flight went uneventfully but it will be a long time before we go up again!
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Pilot Online - great story! Just a quicky, however: on all the GA aircraft I've flown, the only mic which is active is the one for which the PTT's been pushed, so pax chatter should not go out. There are probably installations which are not wired in this manner, but with the vast majority of spamcans, you should find that this is the system (in fact, Geng the Eng will probably be able to quote somewhere in the regs where the CAA specify that this is a requirement!).
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I've never had a problem with a pax yet. Although having an SRG inspector in the family as caused one or two ATSUs along the way to have a problem!
It's kind of funny the way none pilots have such different perceptions of flying! For example "are all pilots geeks!" I'm trying to pursuade a fantastic young lady to come and aviate with me. She's a bit cautious of flying, and I learnt that people like that need to convince themselves they want to come, rather than getting bullied into it..(any tips on that would be much appreciated!). However, she's off white water rafting in a month or two! Naturally, I was mock offended that she would do that but be scared to get in an airplane! Her response made me laugh though.."I really couldn't get into aerial EXTREME SPORTS"???? Now I don't know about you, but going to Guernsey for Fish and Chips never seemed like an extreme sport to me!!
It's kind of funny the way none pilots have such different perceptions of flying! For example "are all pilots geeks!" I'm trying to pursuade a fantastic young lady to come and aviate with me. She's a bit cautious of flying, and I learnt that people like that need to convince themselves they want to come, rather than getting bullied into it..(any tips on that would be much appreciated!). However, she's off white water rafting in a month or two! Naturally, I was mock offended that she would do that but be scared to get in an airplane! Her response made me laugh though.."I really couldn't get into aerial EXTREME SPORTS"???? Now I don't know about you, but going to Guernsey for Fish and Chips never seemed like an extreme sport to me!!