Why does everyone fly at 2500ft?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: DNMM/UK
Why does everyone fly at 2500ft?
I don't know if I'm just imagining it, but i seem to have noticed that most SEP pilots fly at around 2500'. i know that in the south there are airspace limitations but elsewhere where there are no airspace or weather restrictions most SEPs fly at 2000-2500'.
Most of my traffic conflicts occur around this altitude. On my QXC i decided to fly at btw 3500 and 5500' , i noticed that i had fewer traffic advisories/alerts on LARS and i didn't have to ask for MATZ penetrations. so now i fly above the transition layer when i can.
I can not think of reason why people prefer these low levels. I only know of the advantages of flying higher:
1. most lycomings and continentals are best operated at about 6-8000' (can't remember where i read that)
2. Less chance of conflicting with HM finest as well as GA traffic
3. buys you extra time in the event of a forced landing.
So could someone please elaborated on why most people prefer to stick to the lower levels. It really does feel lonely up there
Capt. Manuvar
Most of my traffic conflicts occur around this altitude. On my QXC i decided to fly at btw 3500 and 5500' , i noticed that i had fewer traffic advisories/alerts on LARS and i didn't have to ask for MATZ penetrations. so now i fly above the transition layer when i can.
I can not think of reason why people prefer these low levels. I only know of the advantages of flying higher:
1. most lycomings and continentals are best operated at about 6-8000' (can't remember where i read that)
2. Less chance of conflicting with HM finest as well as GA traffic
3. buys you extra time in the event of a forced landing.
So could someone please elaborated on why most people prefer to stick to the lower levels. It really does feel lonely up there
Capt. Manuvar
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Bournemouth
Cloud? Airspace? Only just left airfield of departure and not had time to climb yet? Shortly to arrive at destination, so descended to overhead join altitude? Makes the plog easier, since there's no need to take into account the different speed in climb/descent if not much time is spent climbing/descending? Only a short flight, better to cruise at low level at 100kt than climb at 75kt? Training flight, instructor doesn't want to waste student's money climbing to 5000' when the exercise can be carried out safely at 2500'?
And, following on from the last one, possibly: all my training was done at 2500', so I find it much easier to recognise features on the ground at this altutide - when I climb higher, things look different to what I'm used to?
I'm not claiming that all of these are necessarily good reasons - just that they're possible reasons. And I'm sure I've missed a few off, too!
FFF
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And, following on from the last one, possibly: all my training was done at 2500', so I find it much easier to recognise features on the ground at this altutide - when I climb higher, things look different to what I'm used to?
I'm not claiming that all of these are necessarily good reasons - just that they're possible reasons. And I'm sure I've missed a few off, too!
FFF
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Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Chichester, UK
Down south I think it's mostly airspace - get the student flying at 2000 ft and he'll never wander into the London TMA (well, apart from those bits that go down to the surface!). I guess it's habit forming. Under the TMA I usually plog 2200ft to avoid all the people at 2000ft. When there's more sky to play with I usually fly quadrantal levels around 4000ft.
Last edited by Evo; 23rd March 2004 at 15:57.
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From: Not a million miles from EGTF
Why so high??
Is 2500' high?? It's too high for me.
You get a much better view from lower down, and where we fly with oodles of low cloud, we keep in sight of the ground
Try it sometime.
You get a much better view from lower down, and where we fly with oodles of low cloud, we keep in sight of the ground
Try it sometime.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
I reckon it's training - myself and everybody else was always flying 2000-3000ft during the PPL.
The best-range altitude for an average Lyco is probably 8000ft... difficult to do in the UK. Also one gets pretty tired pretty quickly up there without oxygen, especially in the dark.
The best-range altitude for an average Lyco is probably 8000ft... difficult to do in the UK. Also one gets pretty tired pretty quickly up there without oxygen, especially in the dark.
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: surrey
I plog 2250ft to avoid Evo at 2200ft, while he's avoiding everyone else at 2000ft (if only I could fly accurately enough to maintain it)!
I am another Southerner, limited by airspace, but elsewhere I still fly mostly below 3000ft because I like looking at the scenery.
TG
I am another Southerner, limited by airspace, but elsewhere I still fly mostly below 3000ft because I like looking at the scenery.
TG
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
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From: London, UK
As already observed, probably a habit picked up during training. On a day of high clouds, if flying XC around London I try to fly just high enough to avoid hitting Tall Guy whilst he is trying to avoid hitting Evo. Out over lovely unrestricted East Anglia I lob up to 5 or 6000, partly to allow time if the donkey quits (although see the forced landing thread for alternatives to this) and partly so that the H bit of a HASELL check is already done in case I feel the urge to aerobat en route.
What really baffles me is why so many people doing the cross channel run crawl over the water at 2000 ish feet even on cloudless days.
What really baffles me is why so many people doing the cross channel run crawl over the water at 2000 ish feet even on cloudless days.
Joined: Apr 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 680
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From: An Airport Near You
Depending on the weather conditions on the day I try and fly as high as possible, depending on the wind of course.
As Capt Manuvar said, you are far less likely to end up in the school of aviation welding and you generally get a better view IMHO.
As an ATCO working outside CAS it is amazing sometimes on a clear day how many people are flogging around at 2500'!
As Capt Manuvar said, you are far less likely to end up in the school of aviation welding and you generally get a better view IMHO.
As an ATCO working outside CAS it is amazing sometimes on a clear day how many people are flogging around at 2500'!
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
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From: London, UK
Evo, Classic bluff double bluff counter bluff conundrum, ain't it?
Aviation equivalent of no smoking office with entire work force including MD standing outside in the rain having a fag?
Aviation equivalent of no smoking office with entire work force including MD standing outside in the rain having a fag?
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Almost Scotland
I must admit I try to get as high as practicable - precisely for the reasons heretofore advanced: no MATZ penetration needed, fewer conflicts, better radar coverage, better DME, etc., reception, and so on.
Where its not possible, then one is happy to route at lower levels. The thing is, whether to plan a flight entirely under VFR in sight of the surface, or whether to plan segments on top.
Where its not possible, then one is happy to route at lower levels. The thing is, whether to plan a flight entirely under VFR in sight of the surface, or whether to plan segments on top.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Location, Location
I have only ever flown at 5000ft+ once in my flying time to-date... the airspace around the SEast is daft - to get above transition alt. you've got to head for the coast - and the visibility is usually so poor that 501ft is about all you can get away with...
Resolution: to get above transition and above 5k ft next time I fly...
Resolution: to get above transition and above 5k ft next time I fly...
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
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From: 75N 16E
I always fligh as high as possibly, where practical. My record to date has been FL210 over Norwich 
For me the limiting factor is airspace in the UK. In the US, its not uncommon to fly at 10000-12500' in a SEP, though this is normally due to terrain. 8000' in a SEP is a comfortable altitude.
Advantages include not hitting everyone below 2000', Evo at 2200, Tall_guy_in_a_152 at 2250, gliders, and its easy to avoid certain airspaces, like MATZ or ATZ's. Shame Class D doesn't stop at 5000' and overlaying Class A doesn't start till 10,000', then we'd have loads of room to play around in
Cheers
EA
For me the limiting factor is airspace in the UK. In the US, its not uncommon to fly at 10000-12500' in a SEP, though this is normally due to terrain. 8000' in a SEP is a comfortable altitude.
Advantages include not hitting everyone below 2000', Evo at 2200, Tall_guy_in_a_152 at 2250, gliders, and its easy to avoid certain airspaces, like MATZ or ATZ's. Shame Class D doesn't stop at 5000' and overlaying Class A doesn't start till 10,000', then we'd have loads of room to play around in
Cheers
EA
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Personally I like 1500ft on the RPS unless there are terrain, aerodrome or Controlled Airspace reasons to fly at another height.
Because I rather like looking at Merrie Old England rather than playing airliners! Did enough high flying in my old day job, thanks very much.
Best range of altitudes was in the old V-bumbler. Climb to 41000 ft or therabouts, then let down to 300ft at low level (and probably rather less over the oggin.....we had a good radio altimeter)
Because I rather like looking at Merrie Old England rather than playing airliners! Did enough high flying in my old day job, thanks very much.
Best range of altitudes was in the old V-bumbler. Climb to 41000 ft or therabouts, then let down to 300ft at low level (and probably rather less over the oggin.....we had a good radio altimeter)
