Checks - Before Taxi to Fuel & After
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Checks - Before Taxi to Fuel & After
I'm interested to know what others do in this scenario. This is assuming that, like me, you believe in checklists (if you don't, your answer here won't help me)
You know you have to go and fuel up.
- Do you do full internal / startup checks at startup?
- Do you do the same after fuelling?
Doing both seems like unneccessary duplication. So logically one would do full checks after fuelling? And if so, what basics would you do for the taxi?
You know you have to go and fuel up.
- Do you do full internal / startup checks at startup?
- Do you do the same after fuelling?
Doing both seems like unneccessary duplication. So logically one would do full checks after fuelling? And if so, what basics would you do for the taxi?
Personally I'd do full internal pre-start checks each time, the full externals (maybe rather quickly second go) each time, but generally full taxi checks between the stand and pumps, and full take-off checks only after fuelling.
I've never seen any formal guidance on that, but as a practice it's served me adequately.
G
I've never seen any formal guidance on that, but as a practice it's served me adequately.
G
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When you say you believe in checklists, I presume you mean written ones.
Personally I agree with the military way of doing things, ie. memorising all the checks. By working your way methodically along the panel, checking as you go, the aircraft becomes its own check list. If it's there, check it; if it's not, don't. This means that pre start-up checks take a fraction of the time that they would have if I'd used a written list. Best of all, you can't accidentally miss things off the list, because the aircraft itself is prompting you.
So yes, I always do a full pre start-up check. Despite what you say, I hope that this answer will help you.
Personally I agree with the military way of doing things, ie. memorising all the checks. By working your way methodically along the panel, checking as you go, the aircraft becomes its own check list. If it's there, check it; if it's not, don't. This means that pre start-up checks take a fraction of the time that they would have if I'd used a written list. Best of all, you can't accidentally miss things off the list, because the aircraft itself is prompting you.
So yes, I always do a full pre start-up check. Despite what you say, I hope that this answer will help you.
Sink The Pink
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I must admit I tend to go along with englishal there.
Wht bother checking round the airframe if you're only going 20 yds to the pumps. As long as there are no towbars attached or things stuck in the air intake you may as well do the whole lot properly once before you actually intend to get airborne.
Wht bother checking round the airframe if you're only going 20 yds to the pumps. As long as there are no towbars attached or things stuck in the air intake you may as well do the whole lot properly once before you actually intend to get airborne.
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Oil pressure check and brake check...nothing more...I feel that the brake check is definitely important. Most of the other things as far as I can see are to ensure a safe flight, not taxi....Having said that, with regard to externals I would always take fuel samples before starting the engine for whatever purpose.
Beet
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Hi Englishal, Tory boy,
Whilst I don't believe that it is alway necessary to do full checks before fuelling, the car type switch on and go routine can have its problems. As you said tow bars also prop covers, intake covers, tie Down's and chocks. Whilst not needing external control locks out for fuel, chances are they may fall out and be a hazard for the subsequent aircraft (not to mention loosing the bloody things). Also engine oil are you going to start your aircraft without checking that. Where do you have most time, ac on the line/hangar door, or on the pumps?
Finally the human factors element. If you have a standard systems for checks and you vary this; you leave the potential for omission later on. Example, quickly start ac, taxi to pumps, do some bits whilst fuelling and due to big ques get hassled to leave. In a rush and get airborne suddenly realising you have not completed your walk round. I know I have done it myself!!!
Obviously it will Never happen to you because you are always so thorough. However the jump in and go approach is just another piece of swiss cheese removed from the accident loop.
Safe flying to all
Wide
Whilst I don't believe that it is alway necessary to do full checks before fuelling, the car type switch on and go routine can have its problems. As you said tow bars also prop covers, intake covers, tie Down's and chocks. Whilst not needing external control locks out for fuel, chances are they may fall out and be a hazard for the subsequent aircraft (not to mention loosing the bloody things). Also engine oil are you going to start your aircraft without checking that. Where do you have most time, ac on the line/hangar door, or on the pumps?
Finally the human factors element. If you have a standard systems for checks and you vary this; you leave the potential for omission later on. Example, quickly start ac, taxi to pumps, do some bits whilst fuelling and due to big ques get hassled to leave. In a rush and get airborne suddenly realising you have not completed your walk round. I know I have done it myself!!!
Obviously it will Never happen to you because you are always so thorough. However the jump in and go approach is just another piece of swiss cheese removed from the accident loop.
Safe flying to all
Wide
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I agree with the answers suggesting a bit of common sense... but something that no one has mentioned so far is how well you know the aircraft. If it's an aircraft I'm new to, then I'll follow the full checklist every time (although I may read out, and then consiously decide that I don't need to do, certain items).
If it's an aircraft I'm familiar with, then I'll always do a brief walkaround before starting the engine, including checking oil, checking that all covers, etc, have been removed and so on. I'll always do an A-check at least once a day, before I first fly (but maybe not before I first start the engine). If I'm just taxying, not flying, then I don't usually use any internal checklists - once I'm in, I just start her up and go. I wouldn't normally do taxi checks just to go to the pump... although Beethoven makes a very good point about the brakes.
But I think there are lots of valid answers to the question - as long as you can justify what you do, that's fine.
FFF
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If it's an aircraft I'm familiar with, then I'll always do a brief walkaround before starting the engine, including checking oil, checking that all covers, etc, have been removed and so on. I'll always do an A-check at least once a day, before I first fly (but maybe not before I first start the engine). If I'm just taxying, not flying, then I don't usually use any internal checklists - once I'm in, I just start her up and go. I wouldn't normally do taxi checks just to go to the pump... although Beethoven makes a very good point about the brakes.
But I think there are lots of valid answers to the question - as long as you can justify what you do, that's fine.
FFF
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When I taxy to the pumps before a flight I am ready to go. So external and internal checks done. On the way there do taxy checks.
No point taxying to the pumps filling up only to find out that a piece of necessary kit is not working if you were only to do the checks after that.
After filling up and putting the filler caps on back myself. Internal checks and off to the holding point.
FD
No point taxying to the pumps filling up only to find out that a piece of necessary kit is not working if you were only to do the checks after that.
After filling up and putting the filler caps on back myself. Internal checks and off to the holding point.
FD
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I'm with Widebody on this, for the same reasoning.
Fuel checks (draining) is an external check. This is preferably done with the tanks full or freshly refuelled, to check integrity of the fuel you've just taken onboard.
External checks come before internal checks.
So sequence is:
Walkround at the hangar, including external checks, lights etc. Check oil (so you can put this in same time as fuel).
Jump in, start, check T's & P's and taxy to fuel pump.
Replenish.
Drag it off the pumps, check tank drains.
Say to yourself mentally "external checks complete"
Start internal checks from scratch.
Common sense really, and the only real way if you use checklists rather than memory (I fly 3 different types in 3 different categories of aircraft - the checklist rules in my case).
Fuel checks (draining) is an external check. This is preferably done with the tanks full or freshly refuelled, to check integrity of the fuel you've just taken onboard.
External checks come before internal checks.
So sequence is:
Walkround at the hangar, including external checks, lights etc. Check oil (so you can put this in same time as fuel).
Jump in, start, check T's & P's and taxy to fuel pump.
Replenish.
Drag it off the pumps, check tank drains.
Say to yourself mentally "external checks complete"
Start internal checks from scratch.
Common sense really, and the only real way if you use checklists rather than memory (I fly 3 different types in 3 different categories of aircraft - the checklist rules in my case).
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I agree about routines. If you are use to completing your checks before taxi (be it for fuel or departure) it would seem safer not to vary that routine. In any event that way at least all the checks that should be done before the aircraft moves are out the way and there is no danger of having left the toe hook on because you were only going to the pumps.
The only caveat is the fuel questions. Draining for water is part of the usual pre taxi checks but I can think of one occasion I was very glad I checked again after refueling having found a significant quantity of water in the uplifted fuel. So that would suggest you leave the fuel checks until at the pumps BUT if there was water already in the tanks often refueling just churns this up with the new fuel and the drain appears far last contaminated than it really is. Also you can no longer "blame" the fueler for his poor quality product! So I reckon it is worth checking the fuel before taxi and after refueling.
The only caveat is the fuel questions. Draining for water is part of the usual pre taxi checks but I can think of one occasion I was very glad I checked again after refueling having found a significant quantity of water in the uplifted fuel. So that would suggest you leave the fuel checks until at the pumps BUT if there was water already in the tanks often refueling just churns this up with the new fuel and the drain appears far last contaminated than it really is. Also you can no longer "blame" the fueler for his poor quality product! So I reckon it is worth checking the fuel before taxi and after refueling.
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Very true about fuel checks. I always remember feeling a little cheeky when I was a student, climbing up the ladders to check if the fuel guy had topped the tanks and screwed the caps down properly,but as my instructor told me, he'll be on the ground with a coffee and bacon butty when your engine stops. Good point also about not taxying before having checked out from Flying Dutch..I may change my routine now. Does that however mean that you effectively do the internals twice?...Once before taxi and then again after refuelling? Nothing wrong with that I suppose.
Beet
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Fuel checks (draining) is an external check. This is preferably done with the tanks full or freshly refuelled, to check integrity of the fuel you've just taken onboard.
First flight of the day, I like to check for water while the aeroplane is stil in the hangar - before it has moved. If there is any water in the tanks, it will have had plenty of time to collect at the bottom of the tanks and will show in the fuel check. Can't argue with also checking after a fill-up as well, though, to check the integrity of the fuel you've just uplifted as Chilli says.
As for check lists, best done mentally in simple aeroplanes IMHO, especially if yu are familiar with the type.
SSD
First flight of the day, I like to check for water while the aeroplane is stil in the hangar - before it has moved. If there is any water in the tanks, it will have had plenty of time to collect at the bottom of the tanks and will show in the fuel check. Can't argue with also checking after a fill-up as well, though, to check the integrity of the fuel you've just uplifted as Chilli says.
As for check lists, best done mentally in simple aeroplanes IMHO, especially if yu are familiar with the type.
SSD
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I would never start an engine with out checking the oil first. If it be transit checks first flight of the day or loading up the next student for the 10th time that day
Personally i would do a first flight check then taxi to the fuel then a transit check afterwards. ie quick visual check nothing has fallen off and oil again and fuel contents. And you won't make many friends blocking the refueling point while doing checks.
Don't really see much point of testing the fuel striaght after refueling the whole lot is going to be mixed up so for it to be any good you will need it to sit for awhile to settle. This really isn't an issue if you are buying your fuel from Air BP etc. But if you are using mogas or filling from a home bowser i would be abit more careful.
MJ
Personally i would do a first flight check then taxi to the fuel then a transit check afterwards. ie quick visual check nothing has fallen off and oil again and fuel contents. And you won't make many friends blocking the refueling point while doing checks.
Don't really see much point of testing the fuel striaght after refueling the whole lot is going to be mixed up so for it to be any good you will need it to sit for awhile to settle. This really isn't an issue if you are buying your fuel from Air BP etc. But if you are using mogas or filling from a home bowser i would be abit more careful.
MJ
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Don't really see much point of testing the fuel striaght after refueling the whole lot is going to be mixed up so for it to be any good you will need it to sit for awhile to settle.
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Before going any further ask yourself if you are using a "check list" or a list of items that make up a procedure.
Pre-start- Check oil level, all clear, brakes on. Start engine.
That is a checklist....important items that must be checked.
Switch this on, pull that push the other etc found in most GA checklist are better desribed as "how to start the engine lists"
Using that idea and the full scan principle as soon as one sits down, checklists become much smaller and doing them is seen as less of a chore.
Of course, if unfamiliar then the "how to do it list" is required but not after that.
You will never miss anything off a written 3 item checklist. Make that 30 items and the posibility of a slip increases dramatically.
Personally, If going to the fuel pumps prior to flight, I would complete the walkaround prior to first move off - best chance of finding a reason not to taxi at all.
Agree with the checking of fuel both as part of the walkround and after fuelling. However, after refuelling it can take 20 minutes for the water to settle out of suspension in the fuel so a quick check straight after may not reveal all the water.
Of course the fuel check is not just about water it is about dirt and also the correct grade of fuel.
Suppliers of fuel are required to check the fuel by taking a sample each day. Ask to see the sample for that day - it will be in a nice big glass jar on the truck or stored near the refuelling point.
After refuelling, it is important to complete the pre-take-off checklist. (or taxi and power checks if to divide the checks). One of your pasengers may have decided to leave their handbag resting on the rudder pedals.
Regards,
DFC
Pre-start- Check oil level, all clear, brakes on. Start engine.
That is a checklist....important items that must be checked.
Switch this on, pull that push the other etc found in most GA checklist are better desribed as "how to start the engine lists"
Using that idea and the full scan principle as soon as one sits down, checklists become much smaller and doing them is seen as less of a chore.
Of course, if unfamiliar then the "how to do it list" is required but not after that.
You will never miss anything off a written 3 item checklist. Make that 30 items and the posibility of a slip increases dramatically.
Personally, If going to the fuel pumps prior to flight, I would complete the walkaround prior to first move off - best chance of finding a reason not to taxi at all.
Agree with the checking of fuel both as part of the walkround and after fuelling. However, after refuelling it can take 20 minutes for the water to settle out of suspension in the fuel so a quick check straight after may not reveal all the water.
Of course the fuel check is not just about water it is about dirt and also the correct grade of fuel.
Suppliers of fuel are required to check the fuel by taking a sample each day. Ask to see the sample for that day - it will be in a nice big glass jar on the truck or stored near the refuelling point.
After refuelling, it is important to complete the pre-take-off checklist. (or taxi and power checks if to divide the checks). One of your pasengers may have decided to leave their handbag resting on the rudder pedals.
Regards,
DFC
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Hi Chili,
What would be of interest is whether you found more crud after waiting for a bit longer.
Am sure that you will catch some if there is a lot but not sure that 5 mins is enough for all the water/crud to get to the lowest point, especially if the stuff is well mixed and partially emulsified by having a powerful refuel.
For that reason refuelling at the end of the day is preferable although that would mean you will have to have a fair idea what you are doing next time you get the bird out.
FD
PS Hope we're not going to debate for a few pages the OWT of condensation in non full fuel tanks!
What would be of interest is whether you found more crud after waiting for a bit longer.
Am sure that you will catch some if there is a lot but not sure that 5 mins is enough for all the water/crud to get to the lowest point, especially if the stuff is well mixed and partially emulsified by having a powerful refuel.
For that reason refuelling at the end of the day is preferable although that would mean you will have to have a fair idea what you are doing next time you get the bird out.
FD
PS Hope we're not going to debate for a few pages the OWT of condensation in non full fuel tanks!