EASA death knell for UK gliding - what next?
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EASA death knell for UK gliding - what next?
Latest act by our masters in Brussels
All gliders imported since September 28th 2003 must be CAA registered (with costs to match no doubt) and by March 2007 all existing gliders are to come under EASA/CAA rules -including presumably all the regulations and costs of licenced engineers, licenced maintenance facilities etc.
(and all said gliders must have a "fireproof" identification plate - anyone ever hear of a glider crashing & burning?)
And in March 2007 all gliders which have been flying for years with BGA approved modifications will then be illegal because the BGA wasn't the original design authority or a national approved authority.
And they havn't even started on glider pilot's licences etc. yet! Is the NPPL next on the hitlist?
See the BGA website for more details.
So something which has worked fine for 70 years is to be stuffed in the name of European unity. How can we get out of this EU sh1t????
All gliders imported since September 28th 2003 must be CAA registered (with costs to match no doubt) and by March 2007 all existing gliders are to come under EASA/CAA rules -including presumably all the regulations and costs of licenced engineers, licenced maintenance facilities etc.
(and all said gliders must have a "fireproof" identification plate - anyone ever hear of a glider crashing & burning?)
And in March 2007 all gliders which have been flying for years with BGA approved modifications will then be illegal because the BGA wasn't the original design authority or a national approved authority.
And they havn't even started on glider pilot's licences etc. yet! Is the NPPL next on the hitlist?
See the BGA website for more details.
So something which has worked fine for 70 years is to be stuffed in the name of European unity. How can we get out of this EU sh1t????
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EASA Regs
Have been having a long and tedious correspondence with my MEP on this very subject.
This is part of his latest reply
>>>I think you are really saying you don't like the proposal and how it affects you._ Fair enough._ However, I do not claim to be a mind reader, especially over matters being dealt with in another Committee._ If you still feel strongly, I suggest you take uup the suggestion I made in the final paragraph of my previous communication._ If you just want to have a moan at me, then please consider it done!<<<
Really helpful stuff..................
This is part of his latest reply
>>>I think you are really saying you don't like the proposal and how it affects you._ Fair enough._ However, I do not claim to be a mind reader, especially over matters being dealt with in another Committee._ If you still feel strongly, I suggest you take uup the suggestion I made in the final paragraph of my previous communication._ If you just want to have a moan at me, then please consider it done!<<<
Really helpful stuff..................
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It may all be simply a matter of National representatives at Brussels trying to get an advantage for their National glider constructors. It usually is the objective in Brussels. Free trade doesn't often come into it if it can be avoided.
I dont fly gliders so I dont know who is the dominant manufacturing country, but I suspect they may be east of the Rhein.
.
I dont fly gliders so I dont know who is the dominant manufacturing country, but I suspect they may be east of the Rhein.
.
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The sooner the UK gets wise and kicks all this european ***** into touch the better the EEC is a good idea in theory but the over regulation and goverment interfearance has gone too far.
From an aviation point of veiw lets just tell those buroacratic blood sucking leaches at the EASA to p1SS off and join forces with people who want aircraft of all types to fly.......the FAA.
From an aviation point of veiw lets just tell those buroacratic blood sucking leaches at the EASA to p1SS off and join forces with people who want aircraft of all types to fly.......the FAA.
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I've read the BGA handout.
I think it is the death knell for the BGA - there is no role for 'Associations' in Europe. The CAA are not interested in gliders or homebuilds but their hands are tied and they must control them under European law.
I think the PFA needs to watch its back also.
Sad - but true.
Arc
I think it is the death knell for the BGA - there is no role for 'Associations' in Europe. The CAA are not interested in gliders or homebuilds but their hands are tied and they must control them under European law.
I think the PFA needs to watch its back also.
Sad - but true.
Arc
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You have my sympathies. 
Pathetic, really. Fireproof plates in gliders, indeed!
Why the UK is in the EC in the first place is something that I can't answer. Leaving aside issues of over-regulation and unnecessary bureaucracy, it amazes me why anyone would imagine that a group of countries that have very different cultures and languages, and have been at war with each other more or less constantly for the past 500+ years, are likely to cooperate in much of anything.
I well remember when I was a grad student at the LSE and had to pay much higher fees than non-UK EC students ... didn't make sense to me that those from Oz, NZ and Canada, who stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the UK throughout two world wars, were charged more than citizens of the former Axis powers.
Okay, that's my whinge for the day ... sorry to get sidetracked. Good luck in your fight with Brussels.
P.S.
Oh, the irony of this statement! I know that everything is relative, but trust me: the FAA is not the friend of GA. Among other things, just look at all of those ridiculous "temporary flight restrictions" that tie up our friends to the South.
Pathetic, really. Fireproof plates in gliders, indeed!Why the UK is in the EC in the first place is something that I can't answer. Leaving aside issues of over-regulation and unnecessary bureaucracy, it amazes me why anyone would imagine that a group of countries that have very different cultures and languages, and have been at war with each other more or less constantly for the past 500+ years, are likely to cooperate in much of anything.
I well remember when I was a grad student at the LSE and had to pay much higher fees than non-UK EC students ... didn't make sense to me that those from Oz, NZ and Canada, who stood shoulder-to-shoulder with the UK throughout two world wars, were charged more than citizens of the former Axis powers.
Okay, that's my whinge for the day ... sorry to get sidetracked. Good luck in your fight with Brussels.
P.S.
people who want aircraft of all types to fly.......the FAA.
BAAAAAAAAASTARDS!!!!!!!!!
Why don't they all p1ss off? We've been able to create our own bureaucratic nightmares and pointless regulations for years and we don't need any Euro bloody shiny ar$ed pen pusher to show us how to do it.
Why don't they all p1ss off? We've been able to create our own bureaucratic nightmares and pointless regulations for years and we don't need any Euro bloody shiny ar$ed pen pusher to show us how to do it.
At the foot of Terry Slaters letter included in the package he says " we do not have the option of saying no to these rules. This is the European Superstate in Action!" - really Terry? I'd call it good old fashioned communism at it's very worst!
From all the above postings on has to wonder how the CAA will cope - if gliders go on the CAA register, then they are obliged to publish AD's AWN's etc - a 3 yearly C of A will mean star inspections & dare I say it air tests by approved (read paid) test pilots. Then where do we get them serviced - are JAR(EASA) Part 145 (M3) organisations going to be approved? Are current inspectors who are normally very familur with the gliders they service going to be approved under Granfather rights or do we pass C of A over to some unknown? The cost? Let's face it nothing the CAA does for you is ever cheap.
Lastly where do we fly our lovely gliders & obtain our training - oh yes - from approved airfields. You only have to look at the backpeddling that has gone on with the introduction of the JAA PPL & subsequent re-invention of the UK version to see that this sort of crap just doesn't & cannot work.
To all of this what will be achieved? - better safety, more freedom, improved quality? - my gut feeling is none of this.
Enjoy the freedom while it lasts folks!
From all the above postings on has to wonder how the CAA will cope - if gliders go on the CAA register, then they are obliged to publish AD's AWN's etc - a 3 yearly C of A will mean star inspections & dare I say it air tests by approved (read paid) test pilots. Then where do we get them serviced - are JAR(EASA) Part 145 (M3) organisations going to be approved? Are current inspectors who are normally very familur with the gliders they service going to be approved under Granfather rights or do we pass C of A over to some unknown? The cost? Let's face it nothing the CAA does for you is ever cheap.
Lastly where do we fly our lovely gliders & obtain our training - oh yes - from approved airfields. You only have to look at the backpeddling that has gone on with the introduction of the JAA PPL & subsequent re-invention of the UK version to see that this sort of crap just doesn't & cannot work.
To all of this what will be achieved? - better safety, more freedom, improved quality? - my gut feeling is none of this.
Enjoy the freedom while it lasts folks!
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Genghis - the BGA is my source of information. I've a nasty suspicion though that they're being over-optimistic e.g. Terry Slater's letter says "we estimate that a significant portion of the BGA fleet may possibly be covered (by Annex II of EASA basic regulation 1592).
I can't see where annex II can cover your average BGA registered glider, and even the genuine vintage gliders would have a problem being defined as "having clear historical relevance related to a) participation in a noteworthy historical event, b) a major step tin the development of aviation or c) a major role played in the armed forces of a Member State"
No doubt gliding instructors will be needing a CPL when those EASA rules come out.
Is the PFA going to be similarly stuffed e.g. by non design authority approved modifications, unapproved instruments, unapproved GPS mounting brackets etc??
I can't see where annex II can cover your average BGA registered glider, and even the genuine vintage gliders would have a problem being defined as "having clear historical relevance related to a) participation in a noteworthy historical event, b) a major step tin the development of aviation or c) a major role played in the armed forces of a Member State"
No doubt gliding instructors will be needing a CPL when those EASA rules come out.
Is the PFA going to be similarly stuffed e.g. by non design authority approved modifications, unapproved instruments, unapproved GPS mounting brackets etc??
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
I was just thinking (while my blood was boiling as I read the posts) that if all the aviation enthusiasts, microlighters, balloonists, parachutists, glider pilots, fixed wing and rotary PPLs (sorry if I've missed out any categories) from all around the UK were to get together in Whitehall one Saturday afternoon a couple of months before the next election, it might make a very interesting point in protest against the over-regulation of recreational aviation.
At least we could have a bl00dy good time as well!
SD
At least we could have a bl00dy good time as well!
SD
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It's very tempting - even half a dozen glider trailers in central London would generate traffic problems (even one does- I know!) - but would it have the least effect on the d***heads in Brussels?
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A little birdy in the CAA tells me that there is going to be no exemptions for gliders and that they will have to comply with EASA rules. The BGA have been/are talking to the CAA about exepmtions etc etc but my Birdy tells me the CAA are only play acting on this and will not allow any exemptions.
BGA should bypass the CAA and go directly to EASA as any agreements made there would over rule the CAA and UK law.
Now whats happening in the rest of europe. Does every country have a seperate system i thought the idea of EASA was to standardise everything.
All gliders will have to be registerd and that they the CAA will administer it because they want the revenues.
BGA should bypass the CAA and go directly to EASA as any agreements made there would over rule the CAA and UK law.
Now whats happening in the rest of europe. Does every country have a seperate system i thought the idea of EASA was to standardise everything.
All gliders will have to be registerd and that they the CAA will administer it because they want the revenues.
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Reading all of these threads with talk of "Little Birdies" at the CAA makes me wonder about the level of confidentiality that they maintain.
It seems to me they have more leaks than a broken sieve and does not leave me feeling confident about the confidentiality of my data.
Also is the CAA so bad that there are so many people with axes to grind that they feel the need to "leak" information?
Just a thought.......
It seems to me they have more leaks than a broken sieve and does not leave me feeling confident about the confidentiality of my data.
Also is the CAA so bad that there are so many people with axes to grind that they feel the need to "leak" information?
Just a thought.......
A thought.
Annex 2, which is the EASA exclusions document doesn't include gliders, which is the whole problem.
However it does include homebuilts, microlights and historic aircraft. If the BGA can shoehorn as many of it's aircraft into those categories as possible, they can be dealt with on that basis by the PFA and BMAA. It would mean a degree of loss of control and revenue to the BGA, but far less than letting their fleet be annexed by EASA. Most importantly, it could hopefully minimise the extra cost and complexity to the average gliding club or pilot.
G
Annex 2, which is the EASA exclusions document doesn't include gliders, which is the whole problem.
However it does include homebuilts, microlights and historic aircraft. If the BGA can shoehorn as many of it's aircraft into those categories as possible, they can be dealt with on that basis by the PFA and BMAA. It would mean a degree of loss of control and revenue to the BGA, but far less than letting their fleet be annexed by EASA. Most importantly, it could hopefully minimise the extra cost and complexity to the average gliding club or pilot.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 25th Mar 2004 at 10:33.
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And no doudt they will cock up the instructor progression which is years ahead of the fixed wing instruction career progression.
You have my sympathy.
MJ (who has 2.5 hrs in a glider and thinks its great)
You have my sympathy.
MJ (who has 2.5 hrs in a glider and thinks its great)
Since EASA took over GA regulation, how many people have been laid off by the CAA?
The consequence has been a shrinking organisation. But, also since it's generally been the most capable people who have gone off to jucy jobs in Hoofdorp or Cologne, it's becoming less and less competent - not to mention increasingly demoralised. Whether working with the new organisation in Cologne when it finally comes into being will be better or worse remains to be seen of-course.
G