FAA PPL/IR
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Surrey UK
FAA PPL/IR
Hello, I need some advice about going the FAA route to a PPL/IR.
I'm currently JAA qualified PPL, IMC, Night , Multi. but it looks very likely that I'm going to be buying into an N-reg single over here the UK and, it seems, like a lot of others I'm looking into the FAA route to an IR.
I've been investigating some of the schools that advertise FAA training here in the UK. I understand that obviously I will need to get an FAA PPL before I can add an IR to it but I'm a bit puzzled about the route I'll need to take to get the PPL in the first place.
Some people are telling me that I can get an FAA PPL pretty easily on the basis of my current JAA licence by filling the various forms and sending the paperwork off; others are saying that I'll need to effectively start again and sit the FAA PPL knowledge exams and the practical/oral.
Anybody know the official answer or even have any experience of having got an FAA/IR over here in the UK ?
thanks
H
I'm currently JAA qualified PPL, IMC, Night , Multi. but it looks very likely that I'm going to be buying into an N-reg single over here the UK and, it seems, like a lot of others I'm looking into the FAA route to an IR.
I've been investigating some of the schools that advertise FAA training here in the UK. I understand that obviously I will need to get an FAA PPL before I can add an IR to it but I'm a bit puzzled about the route I'll need to take to get the PPL in the first place.
Some people are telling me that I can get an FAA PPL pretty easily on the basis of my current JAA licence by filling the various forms and sending the paperwork off; others are saying that I'll need to effectively start again and sit the FAA PPL knowledge exams and the practical/oral.
Anybody know the official answer or even have any experience of having got an FAA/IR over here in the UK ?
thanks
H
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: TL487591
As you correctly say, you will require an FAA licence in order to obtain an FAA IR.
There are two routes to obtaining one, given your existing qualifications:
1) Obtain an FAA licence based on your JAA licence. This requires paying the CAA 15 pounds to confirm to the FAA that your licence is real. Once confirmed, nominating a US FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) and a date, to present yourself and your JAA licence in order to receive an FAA licence. Exceptionally, it is said that visiting FAA inspectors from the New York International Office will squeeze in a licence-grant on a visit to the UK, but this approach is rather more rare.
2) You can obtain a full-blown independent FAA PPL. This entails sitting the single FAA Ground exam (a computer-based test that can be sat in the UK), and then going to the US and flying the equivalent of a skills test. Once again, visiting inspectors are working in collaboration with certain UK-based schools and the flight test can also be performed in the UK. Timing can sometimes be an issue, with a delay for testing though.
Pros and Cons
Your based-on licence does not require you to hold an FAA medical, your JAR one will do the job nicely. However, this licence must be re-validated (via the £15 route) every time you want to add a rating to it)
Your standalone FAA ticket also requires that you hold an FAA medical (can be taken in the UK), but requires no further validation when you come to add aditional ratings to it.
Both types of licence require a Bienniel Flight Review (BFR) to keep them current.
Hope this helps.
2D
There are two routes to obtaining one, given your existing qualifications:
1) Obtain an FAA licence based on your JAA licence. This requires paying the CAA 15 pounds to confirm to the FAA that your licence is real. Once confirmed, nominating a US FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) and a date, to present yourself and your JAA licence in order to receive an FAA licence. Exceptionally, it is said that visiting FAA inspectors from the New York International Office will squeeze in a licence-grant on a visit to the UK, but this approach is rather more rare.
2) You can obtain a full-blown independent FAA PPL. This entails sitting the single FAA Ground exam (a computer-based test that can be sat in the UK), and then going to the US and flying the equivalent of a skills test. Once again, visiting inspectors are working in collaboration with certain UK-based schools and the flight test can also be performed in the UK. Timing can sometimes be an issue, with a delay for testing though.
Pros and Cons
Your based-on licence does not require you to hold an FAA medical, your JAR one will do the job nicely. However, this licence must be re-validated (via the £15 route) every time you want to add a rating to it)
Your standalone FAA ticket also requires that you hold an FAA medical (can be taken in the UK), but requires no further validation when you come to add aditional ratings to it.
Both types of licence require a Bienniel Flight Review (BFR) to keep them current.
Hope this helps.
2D
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 40
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From: Surrey UK
2D,
Thanks, that helps a lot. The key point for me in your reply is that it is possible to add an IR to the "based-on" licence. I'd been told that wasn't the case. I already have an FAA Class 1 medical.
I think it may boil down to a question of timing. The UK based school can't commit to when an appropriate examiner can visit the UK for either my PPL or IR tests. I'd like to get the whole thing finished by the summer so I'm beginning to think that the best way is to head over to the US and to the training there.
H
Thanks, that helps a lot. The key point for me in your reply is that it is possible to add an IR to the "based-on" licence. I'd been told that wasn't the case. I already have an FAA Class 1 medical.
I think it may boil down to a question of timing. The UK based school can't commit to when an appropriate examiner can visit the UK for either my PPL or IR tests. I'd like to get the whole thing finished by the summer so I'm beginning to think that the best way is to head over to the US and to the training there.
H
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,639
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From: TL487591
You are not the only one to find that the timing around getting visiting examiners to UK schools can be problematic. However, in the interests of balance, it does happen and people are getting their licences in that way.
Going to the US would be my preferred route and to avoid offending BRL by naming specific schools, I'll happily recommend one or two to you by PM!
2D
Going to the US would be my preferred route and to avoid offending BRL by naming specific schools, I'll happily recommend one or two to you by PM!
2D
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 198
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From: London
The key point for me in your reply is that it is possible to add an IR to the "based-on" licence. I'd been told that wasn't the case.
It is certainly possible to put an IR on the "based on" PPL. But there is an argument that you can't use it. I'm not entirely sure I remember the reasoning but I think it might be because your operating privileges are still subject to the limitations of your JAA licence due to FAR 61.75(e).
Personally, now, I think this is a glitch in the wording (in that it doesn't make provision for ratings added to "based on" licences) rather than an intention on the part of the FAA that you can't use your IR. If the FAA didn't want you to be able to use the FAA IR, they wouldn't issue it on the "based on" licence.
Nevertheless, the argument is there. I have also heard that the wording on the "based on" licence is "Instrument test US passed" rather than the "Instrument Airplane" which is put on the FAA PPL, which may have some significance.
It is not a problem for most of the wannabees who use the FAA route since they go on to do a CPL so the issue disappears - it is an issue for PPL/IRs.
The fact that you have been given the same message was suggests there is something out there and it might be worth an email to the FAA to find out.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 40
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From: Surrey UK
Thanks for your replies, I'll see what more I can find out
On another related issue, does anyone know the legalities of receiving FAA training in the UK on a G-reg plane ? This is what the school is offering but I'd understood that for that to be legal the instructor has to be JAA instructor qualified.
On another related issue, does anyone know the legalities of receiving FAA training in the UK on a G-reg plane ? This is what the school is offering but I'd understood that for that to be legal the instructor has to be JAA instructor qualified.
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
Instrument test US passed" rather than the "Instrument Airplane"
Still, beyond that now
EA
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 487
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From: Daventry UK
2D says:
In addition, for the unrestricted FAA private certificate, don't forget that you will need to show 3 Hrs instruction by an FAA instructor in the prior 60 days in your logbook, be signed off by an instructor as suitable to sit the written and practical tests and sit the oral (which some people regard as the more challenging test) immediately prior to the actual flight test.
The PTS (practical test standard) booklets are a very good grounding in what's expected. Personally, if your'e serious about flying in the US, I think it's a great thing to do, rather than relying on the reciprocal licence.
You can obtain a full-blown independent FAA PPL. This entails sitting the single FAA Ground exam (a computer-based test that can be sat in the UK), and then going to the US and flying the equivalent of a skills test.
The PTS (practical test standard) booklets are a very good grounding in what's expected. Personally, if your'e serious about flying in the US, I think it's a great thing to do, rather than relying on the reciprocal licence.
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Yorkshire
I added an FAA IR to my PPL which was obtained based on my JAA PPL. I also flew about on it for a couple of years with no problem, I had done the NQ previously so luckily did not have that restriction.
Its worth pointing out as well that you also dont have to sit the full FAA PPL to move up a licence. If you decide you want an FAA CPL then you can start the course without having to complete any extra training to get a full FAA PPL first, (assuming you meet hours requirements, etc, for CPL). If you pass this is also a licence in its own right and therefore if you let your JAA lapse for any reason you can still fly on your FAA as its no longer "based on"
Its worth pointing out as well that you also dont have to sit the full FAA PPL to move up a licence. If you decide you want an FAA CPL then you can start the course without having to complete any extra training to get a full FAA PPL first, (assuming you meet hours requirements, etc, for CPL). If you pass this is also a licence in its own right and therefore if you let your JAA lapse for any reason you can still fly on your FAA as its no longer "based on"
