Setting QFE when no airfield info or air ground
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Setting QFE when no airfield info or air ground
Had a fantastic trip (VFR) from Manchester to Tatenhill last week. All went well, but I always like to reflect on anything that could have gone better, and so I pose these questions!
I phoned the airfield to PPR prior to the trip, and was told to call blind when approaching.
In the absence of QFE setting from the airfield, I made a calculation using the last known QNH (from Shawbury), and the (known) elevation of the airfield.
Is this acceptable, and could I have done this a different way ?
thanks in anticipation
I phoned the airfield to PPR prior to the trip, and was told to call blind when approaching.
In the absence of QFE setting from the airfield, I made a calculation using the last known QNH (from Shawbury), and the (known) elevation of the airfield.
Is this acceptable, and could I have done this a different way ?
thanks in anticipation
Why do it if it's not fun?
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In uncontrolled airspace, I don't believe there's any requirement to have any specific value set - use whatever you're happiest with, as long as it allows safe flight.
In that situation, personally I'd stick with a QNH, and fly a circuit at the airfield elevation (which I can read off the chart) plus 1000' (or whatever local procedures dictate). Have used this procedure quite happily at airfield with no radio (whether closed, un-manned, or farm strips with no frequency) in the UK, France and USA without any trouble.
FFF
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In that situation, personally I'd stick with a QNH, and fly a circuit at the airfield elevation (which I can read off the chart) plus 1000' (or whatever local procedures dictate). Have used this procedure quite happily at airfield with no radio (whether closed, un-manned, or farm strips with no frequency) in the UK, France and USA without any trouble.
FFF
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What would be the views here on always using QNH (never QFE)? That's what I do. There's a lot going for it - even for purely VFR flight where one is going to a field for which no QNH/QFE is available but there is a nearby field (perhaps with ATIS) whose QNH you can use.
I never use QFE. Always QNH. VFR & IFR. Much easier with no stuffing around in the missed approach etc AND for terrain clearance puts you on the same datum as all those chart elevations .
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I'm a 'QNH person only' too. Adding airfield elevation to circuit height is no great problem, and, as you say, you can always get a QNH from a nearby ATIS or airfield if the place you're going into isn't available to tell you.
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GN,
That is the most sensible approach in my opinion and ensures you are not going to be a million miles out.
When just doing some circuits it is not going to matter too much whether you use QNH or QFE.
Once you move away from the field it is easier to use QNH and in IMC using QFE is too complicated for my simple brain.
FD
That is the most sensible approach in my opinion and ensures you are not going to be a million miles out.
When just doing some circuits it is not going to matter too much whether you use QNH or QFE.
Once you move away from the field it is easier to use QNH and in IMC using QFE is too complicated for my simple brain.
FD
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What would be the views here on always using QNH (never QFE)?
And set the transition altitude at 18,000 so we didn't even have to use the...er...other Q code
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Only the glider flyers use QFE over here... QNH (when unknown, setting field elevation while on the ground) is really the only sensible thing to use. I can't believe that it is being taught to set your altimeter to QFE! That changes much more often then the QNH during ANY flight (except patterns, of course)!
Westy
Westy
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Cheers chaps.
I guess I'm in the habit of setting QFE, as this is what I've been taught.
My problem is, I sometimes find it difficult to perform the simplest of calculations whilst flying (fine on the ground !), so perhaps sticking to QNH would cut down the margin for error. (Although, some basic mental arithmetic would still be required in using the altimeter, say if the circuit height was non standard eg 800 feet.)
I guess I'm in the habit of setting QFE, as this is what I've been taught.
My problem is, I sometimes find it difficult to perform the simplest of calculations whilst flying (fine on the ground !), so perhaps sticking to QNH would cut down the margin for error. (Although, some basic mental arithmetic would still be required in using the altimeter, say if the circuit height was non standard eg 800 feet.)
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I would always use QFE if it is specifically offered (and it usually is at controlled fields) but would never bother to calculate it otherwise.
I was taught to set QFE when the field is in sight, but this caught me out when flying into Rochester for the first time on Friday. Approaching from the South West, the airfield 'nestles' beyond a line of hills so I was virtually overhead before I saw it (aided by a big arrow on Penguina's new GPS). Result was that I was twiddling the altimeter and descending dead side at the same time, and could not cross-check the indicated height against original altitude. If I find myself in the same situation again, I think I would leave QNH set.
TG.
p.s. Rochester very friendly airfield and the cafe met the high expectations indicated in another thread recently. Unfortunately we were a bit rushed so only had time for a piece of cake (sorry, gateaux au chocolat) and some soup. I will return.
I was taught to set QFE when the field is in sight, but this caught me out when flying into Rochester for the first time on Friday. Approaching from the South West, the airfield 'nestles' beyond a line of hills so I was virtually overhead before I saw it (aided by a big arrow on Penguina's new GPS). Result was that I was twiddling the altimeter and descending dead side at the same time, and could not cross-check the indicated height against original altitude. If I find myself in the same situation again, I think I would leave QNH set.
TG.
p.s. Rochester very friendly airfield and the cafe met the high expectations indicated in another thread recently. Unfortunately we were a bit rushed so only had time for a piece of cake (sorry, gateaux au chocolat) and some soup. I will return.
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I'm sure I asked this before and didn't get a reply, but... why are the RAF so keen on QFE, then? Surely they must see an advantage? Or are they (we, I should probably say...) so hidebound they can't see any advantage in changing?
Tim
Tim
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.....as it's nice to quickly see how much room you have below
In my limited experience, I've only ever seen a QNH used for aerobatics, since it lets you compare your altitude with that shown on the charts. Mind you, I've also only ever done aerobatics so high that the ground really ought not to be an issue. What do all you more experiences aeros pilots set???
FFF
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FFF,
Notwithstanding (if in USA) FAR 91.121
Lets assume you accurately need to know the altitude of the terrain you are peforming aerobatics over. So (for instance) if the box is 200ft above the airfield, when still at the airfield set altimeter to -200ft. When arriving at the box you will have a decent "local QFE" setting dialled in and immediately obtainable from altimeter. You will have to make the same adjustment when using QNH, but this time you read the altimeter and make the adjustment in your head, which is another thing to do when you might be otherwise busy.... Works for me, others might do otherwise, and that's OK by me too.
PS FFF,
Might be a problem if field at more than a few thousand feet, could be a pain to wind altimeter back to zero, not had that problem myself though
Notwithstanding (if in USA) FAR 91.121
Lets assume you accurately need to know the altitude of the terrain you are peforming aerobatics over. So (for instance) if the box is 200ft above the airfield, when still at the airfield set altimeter to -200ft. When arriving at the box you will have a decent "local QFE" setting dialled in and immediately obtainable from altimeter. You will have to make the same adjustment when using QNH, but this time you read the altimeter and make the adjustment in your head, which is another thing to do when you might be otherwise busy.... Works for me, others might do otherwise, and that's OK by me too.
PS FFF,
Might be a problem if field at more than a few thousand feet, could be a pain to wind altimeter back to zero, not had that problem myself though
Last edited by slim_slag; 3rd Mar 2004 at 19:50.
I was taught to use QFE when doing circuits, maybe it's because it's easier for students to see cross reference what the altimeter tells them and what they see out of the window when approaching to land.
The only time I've used QFE in the memorable past was yeasterday going into Wellesbourne and that was only cos it was offered and the circuit height is referenced to it.
The only time I've used QFE in the memorable past was yeasterday going into Wellesbourne and that was only cos it was offered and the circuit height is referenced to it.
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slim_slag
In fact one cannot wind the altimeter back to zero from that far up, which is another reason for using QNH only, and in countries which have high elevation airfields you presumably don't have a choice.
In fact one cannot wind the altimeter back to zero from that far up, which is another reason for using QNH only, and in countries which have high elevation airfields you presumably don't have a choice.
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Sure IO540, will not work at higher terrain, but never been relevant to me or most people I suspect. I don't think that is a good reason to use QNH only, and I am not telling you not to use QNH
Wasn't that Thunderbird crash blamed upon pilot error and altimeter settings, and having to make calculations in his head about MSL and AGL?
Wasn't that Thunderbird crash blamed upon pilot error and altimeter settings, and having to make calculations in his head about MSL and AGL?
Last edited by slim_slag; 4th Mar 2004 at 03:25.
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I'm a little mystified about all the opinions. What does it matter whether you use QNH or QFE, so long as you know which one you're using? I personally find it easier to use QFE if doing circuits or approaching an airfield, so that I know the airfield is at zero ft. I can see it's equally logical to not want to have to set something different, and therefore stick to QNH. But I really can't see that it matters one way or the other.