Sheffield Airport - Arrival
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Sheffield Airport - Arrival
Hi all,
I am thinking of visiting Sheffield Airport soon in a PA-28, and wondered if any of you know of any recommended points of entry. I realise that Sheffield now accepts SE aircraft, but is there any 'official' way of arriving - i.e via a certain VRP? I'll be coming from Gamston.
Thanks in advance, and would appreciate any other nuggets of inf about the airport (landing fees/food/ATCU/etc)
Flock1
I am thinking of visiting Sheffield Airport soon in a PA-28, and wondered if any of you know of any recommended points of entry. I realise that Sheffield now accepts SE aircraft, but is there any 'official' way of arriving - i.e via a certain VRP? I'll be coming from Gamston.
Thanks in advance, and would appreciate any other nuggets of inf about the airport (landing fees/food/ATCU/etc)
Flock1
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Speak to the airport as IIRC you have to fax over a form saying you accept & understand their arrivals procedure.
I don't have it to hand myself, but it involves routing via the M1/M18 junction at IIRC 2000ft QFE, then into the overhead and decending. They are quite particular about their procedures for both noise and safety reasons.
I don't have it to hand myself, but it involves routing via the M1/M18 junction at IIRC 2000ft QFE, then into the overhead and decending. They are quite particular about their procedures for both noise and safety reasons.
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I have just flown back in from Sheffield in the last hour. They like you to arrive VFR from the M1 or as we did IFR and the use the NDB/DME procedure.
You need to contact them and fill in a a PPR form and fax back prior to your first visit. After that you just call for PPR.
We visit quite regularily. A very nice airport, shame the ILS has gone.
You need to contact them and fill in a a PPR form and fax back prior to your first visit. After that you just call for PPR.
We visit quite regularily. A very nice airport, shame the ILS has gone.
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The NDB/DME procedure is still there at pilots discretion. It is no longer in my GNS430 database but it is in my Jeppview which is updated every 2 weeks.
It would be a shame if they were to get rid of it completely.
It would be a shame if they were to get rid of it completely.
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The UK AIP is the only correct reference document...and it definitely isn't in there...flying an unpublished procedure could give you a potential Rule 5 issue
By Law, Sheffield have to 'get rid' of it...or rather have to 'provide an Approach Control Service during the notified hours of availibity of...' or words to that effect, which, of course they no longer do...
By Law, Sheffield have to 'get rid' of it...or rather have to 'provide an Approach Control Service during the notified hours of availibity of...' or words to that effect, which, of course they no longer do...
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Not arguing with your assessment of the validy of the approach, as I said it is missing from my GNS430 so the Jeppview will no doubt catch up.
Not sure where you get a Rule 5 conflict from as "you are landing at an aerodrome" there is nothing to state how you align yourself with the runway.
I suspect it will end up in the realms of a "training" approach just like many other airfields.
Allthough I understand that there is a discussion underway to allow non precision approaches to be handled by FISO's. Not sure if that went or will go anywhere.
It would be a shame for the approach to vanish as it will rob people of valuable training experiance. Especially when you compare the outrageous prices we get charged for an approach at most other places.
And for the record the UK AIP is usually more out of date than anything else!
Not sure where you get a Rule 5 conflict from as "you are landing at an aerodrome" there is nothing to state how you align yourself with the runway.
I suspect it will end up in the realms of a "training" approach just like many other airfields.
Allthough I understand that there is a discussion underway to allow non precision approaches to be handled by FISO's. Not sure if that went or will go anywhere.
It would be a shame for the approach to vanish as it will rob people of valuable training experiance. Especially when you compare the outrageous prices we get charged for an approach at most other places.
And for the record the UK AIP is usually more out of date than anything else!
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Bose-x
Airport operators only promulgate changes in the UK AIP... Jepps, Aerad etc. all pick up there changes from there....so, in theory, the AIP should be up to date.
The Rule 5 issue relates to overflying the congested area...I don't know what the procedure profile is, but assuming the Airport is somewhere near the City during the approach, you could find yourself in breach.
The caveat is you can break all the Rule 5 requirements when taking off or landing 'in accordance with normal aviation practice'. These days, I'm sure a good lawyer would argue that flying an out-of-date, unpublished procedure is not 'normal aviation practice'.
The CAA did issue a consultation document last year about the use of Instrument Approach Procedures at airfields with FISO, but I understand that it died a death....the can of worms it opens is bigger than the one we've already got with people making up there own procedures on the back of the proverbial fag packet!
Airport operators only promulgate changes in the UK AIP... Jepps, Aerad etc. all pick up there changes from there....so, in theory, the AIP should be up to date.
The Rule 5 issue relates to overflying the congested area...I don't know what the procedure profile is, but assuming the Airport is somewhere near the City during the approach, you could find yourself in breach.
The caveat is you can break all the Rule 5 requirements when taking off or landing 'in accordance with normal aviation practice'. These days, I'm sure a good lawyer would argue that flying an out-of-date, unpublished procedure is not 'normal aviation practice'.
The CAA did issue a consultation document last year about the use of Instrument Approach Procedures at airfields with FISO, but I understand that it died a death....the can of worms it opens is bigger than the one we've already got with people making up there own procedures on the back of the proverbial fag packet!
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At the front of your manual bose-x, you note that the Jepp chart NOTAMs have shown that chart to be withdrawn for ages.
Jepp typically use that mechanism where there is some doubt over whether or not the approach will be re-instated at some future date. It is a classic Jepp Gotcha, but it is nice to see that there is optimism for Sheffield's future as far away as Frankfurt
Whilst flying the procedure may be inappropriate, I think you are clutching at straws by suggesting that it places pilots in breach of Rule 5 MATS Part 3. The phrase, "I'm sure a good Lawyer could argue[something totally illogical]" is always a bit of a cop-out.
Jepp typically use that mechanism where there is some doubt over whether or not the approach will be re-instated at some future date. It is a classic Jepp Gotcha, but it is nice to see that there is optimism for Sheffield's future as far away as Frankfurt
Whilst flying the procedure may be inappropriate, I think you are clutching at straws by suggesting that it places pilots in breach of Rule 5 MATS Part 3. The phrase, "I'm sure a good Lawyer could argue[something totally illogical]" is always a bit of a cop-out.
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Airport operators are supposed to promulgate changes by the AP but this does not happen properly. Take a look at Sywell, the 07/25 runway has been closed for at least 6 months. I have the AP on CD with updates and it does not show the changes here or the website. What is supposed to happend and what does happen are often 2 different things!
The profile for Sheffield NDB does not break rule 5 at 2500ft around the procedure and you are higher on finals as well.
I know it is a moot point as it is now no longer an official approach. But the kit is still there and maintained and if nothing else gives people a training opportunity. Just the same as Leicester and half a dozen airfields that I have flown "training" procedures into.
I understand that the FISO suggestion is still on going with Kemble as one of the players trying to get approval.
The profile for Sheffield NDB does not break rule 5 at 2500ft around the procedure and you are higher on finals as well.
I know it is a moot point as it is now no longer an official approach. But the kit is still there and maintained and if nothing else gives people a training opportunity. Just the same as Leicester and half a dozen airfields that I have flown "training" procedures into.
I understand that the FISO suggestion is still on going with Kemble as one of the players trying to get approval.
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2Ds, I was not arguing whether the procedure was withdrawn or not!
In fact I was not arguing with anyone about this approach merely reflecting on the fact that it will/should at least be a training approach.
However I have Jeppview (electronc charts) cycle 04/04 which is this weeks CD and there is no mention in the Jeppview NOTAMS of the procedures being withdrawn. Yet in my GNS430 they have gone.
Just another lack of consistancy in Aviation!
In fact I was not arguing with anyone about this approach merely reflecting on the fact that it will/should at least be a training approach.
However I have Jeppview (electronc charts) cycle 04/04 which is this weeks CD and there is no mention in the Jeppview NOTAMS of the procedures being withdrawn. Yet in my GNS430 they have gone.
Just another lack of consistancy in Aviation!
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My point was to correct this misunderstanding:
Whilst long-term this is true, the NOTAMs tell you all you need to know:
REF: L0612/04 From: 2004-Feb-19 Thu 12:36 To: 2004-May-31 Mon 23:59
ICAO: EGBK NORTHAMPTON SYWELL
RWY 07/25 CLSD DUE WIP ON APRON.
Airport operators are supposed to promulgate changes by the AP
REF: L0612/04 From: 2004-Feb-19 Thu 12:36 To: 2004-May-31 Mon 23:59
ICAO: EGBK NORTHAMPTON SYWELL
RWY 07/25 CLSD DUE WIP ON APRON.
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We are hitting the same nail with 2 different hammers here 2D's!!
I was also stating that the AP was no always up to date either! I also quite agree that the NOTAMS are the correct place for up to date info.
I was also stating that the AP was no always up to date either! I also quite agree that the NOTAMS are the correct place for up to date info.
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We are hitting the same nail with 2 different hammers here 2D's!!
I reckon we'll say that it has been definitively knocked into the wood then
2D
