Yet another time logging question

[drauk]

Apparently, in the US a private pilot undertaking IR training logs the time as PIC. (As an aside, I've been told that the instructor ALSO logs PIC which seems weird.) The time spent during the training can contribute to the 50 hours of cross-country requirement for the issuance of the IR. But how does a UK pilot log the time? I suspect the answer is that as far as the FAA is concerned then PIC works, but as far as the CAA is concerned it is PUT. Anyone confirm this?

[Evo]

Can't answer the original question (other than to confirm that the dual-logging of P1 is possible in the USA but not JAR-land, which is a classic gotcha over on Wannabes). However, to add a question, how many hours cross-country are you likely to do while training for an FAA IR?

[Say again s l o w l y]

This seems to be acceptable in the States, but if my memory serves me right, the CAA won't accept a flight where there were 2 PIC's. There were a few cases of this a while ago and the Belgrano stepped on a few individuals. They knew which schools were operating like this, and so checked any hours very carefully.

This was usually done by hour builders who wanted to cut the costs and is a slightly different scenario to this one, but I can't see how a student can be PIC at the same time as the instructor.

[Mike Cross]

Difficult also to see how someone can be PIC in circumstances that fall outside the privileges of his/her licence.

Mike

[sinkingfeeling]

I believe the CAA call this FAA system "Dual Logging"

In the UK if you are training with an instructor for any additional
rating, the instructor logs the flight as PIC, the student as PUT.

[Flyin'Dutch']

What I understand is that under the FAA system both the 'student' and instructor can log P1, providing the flight is in VMC with a view limiting device.

That way the 'student' flies within the privileges of their license (sic).

However if on this training flight they go into IMC the 'student' becomes PUT and the instructor is the PIC.

FD

PS: Just put the student bit in ' ' to emphasise that they have already a vanilla PPL

[drauk]

Well, everyone has confirmed what I already believed - that in the US there can be two people logging PIC but not in the UK. However, the question remains, what do you actually write in the log book? If you put PUT then the American examiner is going to say you don't have enough P1 time and if you put P1 the CAA don't like it. PIC(FAA)/PUT(CAA) ???

Evo: how much time will be cross country whilst training for an FAA IR? In my case, about 25 hours. That is to say, not an inconsequential amount.

[Send Clowns]

Of course the FAA and CAA have vastly different definitions of "cross country" too Only need to be 3 miles from the airport for the CAA, so most flying will count. Leave the circuit and you're cross-country!

[Flyin'Dutch']

Drauk,

For your FAA IR you will need the P1 and XC time and you will in effect be flying on your own licence.

So you log that as P1.

FD

[drauk]

FD, right, thanks. And for the sake of completeness, if I subsequently needed hours for something CAA related would I have to exclude these P1 hours and count them as PUT?