JAR CPL IR-SPA-ME Vs UK IMC?

[LD Max]

Section 3 of LASORS 2004 states:

The holder of a UK issued JAR-FCL professional
aeroplane licence with a valid single-pilot IR(A) do
not require a separate IMC Rating endorsement as
the privileges are included within the IR(A)
privileges. If, however, you wish to obtain an IMC
Rating you will need to apply to PLD for
endorsement. The normal IMC rating issue fee will
apply unless application is made in conjunction with
an Instrument Rating (IR). In this case, the IMC
Rating will be valid for a period of 25 months from
the date of the IR(A) skill test and will not need to
be revalidated if the IR(A) remains valid. If the IR(A)
lapses an IMC revalidation flight test is required.

[list=a][*]Why WOULD you want an IMC rating if you already have an IR?[*]If the IMC rating is valid for 25 months from the date of IR skill test / revalidation but the IR lapses after 12 months, does the IMC remain valid for the remaining 13 months?[/list=a]

It so happens that I DO have a UK IMC rating, (carried over from my former PPL), but the IMC revalidation was due on 30 Jan 2004. My IR-SPA-ME rating, however, is valid from Nov 2003 until Nov 2004. The wording in LASORS implies that the IMC will remain valid (without specific revalidation) until Dec 2005 (25 months from Nov 2003) - but then states it lapses if the IR(A) lapses... So what's the point?

I'm confused

Thanks

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi,

I'll try and answer this but the usual cavaet in checking with the CAA themselves applies as I could be wrong in my interpretation.

The wording of LASORS implies that if you had the IMC Rating issued on the basis of your JAA IR(A) Rating then you would be subject to the usual validity but it would expire after 12 months if you hadn't revalidated your JAA IR(A). If you kept your JAA IR(A) valid then the IMC would remain valid but after 25 months you would have to take an additional flight test with an examiner to revalidate your IMC Rating even though your JAA IR(A) remained current.

That you had the IMC Rating issued as a standalone rating not in conjunction and on the basis of validity with the your JAA IR(A) implies that the usual validity remains in force for your UK IMC (ie it expired on the 30th Jan) and even if you let your IR lapse your IMC rating will still be valid.

So your IMC rating doesn't lapse after twelve months if you let your IR lapse because your IMC Rating was/is a standalone rating issued before you even did your JAA IR(A) (but you have to revalidate your IMC Rating with an examiner).

Why you would want an IMC Rating as well as a JAA IR(A)? Well there are a few good reasons (such as still allowing you to fly in IMC except in Class A / Airways if your IR had lapsed) but these would only cover you in UK airspace.

I'm confused as well!!!

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[BEagle]

What it means is:

1. Keep your SP IR(A) valid and you don't need an IMC Rating.

2. If you want an IMC rating on your licence, you'll have to pay. Why would you want one? To maintain IMC rating privileges should you let your IR lapse for any reason. In which case it'll remain valid until 25 months after the date on which the IR was issued, re-validated or renewed.

Then there's confusion in LASORS yet again!

E3.4 An (IMC Rating) applicant who has held an ICAO or military green Instrument Rating or a UK professional pilot licence aeroplanes in the 2 years preceding the date of application for the IMC Rating will be exempt from taking the initial IMC Flight Test and written examination.

seems to indicate that putting an IMC rating on a UK-issued JAR-FCL CPL/ATPL is purely an administrative action - no need for exam or test if you've held a ICAO IR in the previous 2 years. So, it you're a retired airline pilot who last passed a multi-pilot IR re-validation 18 months ago, you could apply for an IMC rating which would be valid for a further (25 - 18) = 7 months.

Why then, does LASORS go on to state:

The holder of a JAR-FCL professional aeroplane licence with a valid multi-pilot IR(A) is not automatically entitled to fly using the privileges of an IMC Rating in single-pilot aeroplanes. They will be required to obtain a separate IMC Rating endorsement on the basis of their most recent multi pilot IR proficiency check or skill test. In this case, the IMC Rating will be valid for a period of 25 months from the date of the IR(A) skill test and will not need to be revalidated if the IR remains valid. If the IR(A) lapses an IMC re-validation flight test is required.

This indicates that, obviously you must have an IMC rating to exercise such privileges in a SP aeroplane - but the last sentence seems to be nonsense as it contradicts the 'held an IR in the last 2 years' right. I guess what they mean is that if your IR lapses, you'll eventually need to re-validate or renew your IMC rating like any normal PPL holder would, i.e. by IMC rating test. But any remaining IMC rating validity period between the expiry date of the IR and the expiry date of the IMC rating must surely still apply? Otherwise they'd be stealing up to 13 months of IMC rating time off you! Perhaps it should read "If the IMC rating lapses an IMC re-validation flight test is required."

[LD Max]

Thanks for your input guys.

On this basis, I would be tempted to re-word the last few lines as follows:

The normal IMC rating issue fee will
apply unless application is made in conjunction with
an Instrument Rating (IR). In this case, the IMC
Rating will not need to be revalidated if the IR(A) remains valid. If the IR(A) lapses an IMC revalidation flight test will be required after a period of 25 months from
the date of the IR(A) skill test.

This seems to make more sense to me, but is it the right "interpretation"?

[owenlars]

When I do my annual IR renewal I get the examiner to sign off that I have also completed an IMC flight test so in my licence (which is a good old fashioned sludge brown CAA one) I have an IR sign off and an IMC sign off. No real reason other than the IMC is then always valid if I have a few days betwen IR expiry and doing the IR renewal.

[englishal]

In which case it'll remain valid until 25 months after the date on which the IR was issued, re-validated or renewed.

Only if you apply for the IMC rating though (and pay £67). You are exempt from any formal exams or flight tests if within the previous 25 months you have carried out some form of instrument "test" be it an IR renewal, IMC renewal or even FAA IPC if applying for an IMC based on the foreign IR. So, your IMC rating has lapsed, but you have renewed your IR so you are entitled to an IMC rating, but not automatically issued it. You have to re-apply and send of £67.

Still, doesn't really matter, you have an IR

EA