Taxi Clearance after Landing
Taxi Clearance after Landing
I recently landed at an ATC controlled airfield which, at the time, was not busy. As I approached the most convenient and usual taxiway to reach the parking area the Tower were busy giving a complicated clearance to another aircraft on the ground and could not therefore give me taxi clearance.
It seemed to me that I had two options:
1. Stop on the runway and wait for clearance to taxi, or
2. Vacate onto the taxiway anyway, the far end of which I could not see.
I should probably know exactly what to do but would appreciate opinions from others.
It seemed to me that I had two options:
1. Stop on the runway and wait for clearance to taxi, or
2. Vacate onto the taxiway anyway, the far end of which I could not see.
I should probably know exactly what to do but would appreciate opinions from others.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Believe it or not the Controller is probably planning on you getting off asap.
So - vacate first convenient (but do not backtrack unless specifically told to), and then once you're past the holding point line wait until given further taxi instructions or ask for further instructions if they're not forthcoming.
If the Controller had wanted you to come off at a specific point he should have delayed giving the departure details until he'd sorted you out.
So - vacate first convenient (but do not backtrack unless specifically told to), and then once you're past the holding point line wait until given further taxi instructions or ask for further instructions if they're not forthcoming.
If the Controller had wanted you to come off at a specific point he should have delayed giving the departure details until he'd sorted you out.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Hampshire,UK
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was always taught to vacate the runway at the first practical exit, unless the controller tells you otherwise - e.g. keep your speed up along the runway and vacate at the far end (at EGHH 08 - so after a shortish landing run, there is still another 1500m + to go!)
The once you get off the runway, either hold just after the holding point, or usually by then the controller will have given you the clearance.
TZ
The once you get off the runway, either hold just after the holding point, or usually by then the controller will have given you the clearance.
TZ
Spink Pots
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Up in the air
Posts: 255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At Aldergrove where most landings are carried out on rwy 25 the first available exit is the bravo taxiway. I always thought it sensible to vacate on reaching it whether or not the controller instructed me to do so but all of my instructors taught me to stop on the runway and wait for the instruction to vacate.
This doesn't pose a problem very often though, once in a blue moon.
This doesn't pose a problem very often though, once in a blue moon.
On my former big jet, I used to teach people to plan not just the approach, but also the initial part of the ground taxying route on arrival. Hence look at plate, assess which exit seems likely, then get confirmation from ATC if possible. That's because we often went to places we'd never been to before. I also advised that the FP should taky the ac whilst the NFP 'map read' the taxi route at strange aerdromes. But usually it was something like "Take first available high-speed, hold short of the parallel, ground on Point Niner when off". At normal UK GA aerodromes, surely it's normal just to take the most obvious route unless the ground controller directs otherwise? In other words study the plate and proceed as you would with free choice; they'll correct you if necessary?
Stopping on a RW to await instructions would make me feel very uncomfortable - but it would surely get the attention of the Air Traffickers!
Stopping on a RW to await instructions would make me feel very uncomfortable - but it would surely get the attention of the Air Traffickers!
Thanks chaps for some valuable inputs. I certainly feel a little wiser now.
As scusi says this is a "once in a blue moon" type of event and, for someone like me who originally learned to fly non radio, I have picked up a lot of the finer points of procedures by adsorption.
At the airfield in question, they usually give taxi clearance before you reach the taxiway and it has never been a problem so I was a bit uncertain what to do.
In the event, I did slow down more than I would normally have done, but when the other A/C had read back his clearance, I still had to ask the Tower for taxi clearance. I suppose this should have told me that he expected me to proceed.
As scusi says this is a "once in a blue moon" type of event and, for someone like me who originally learned to fly non radio, I have picked up a lot of the finer points of procedures by adsorption.
At the airfield in question, they usually give taxi clearance before you reach the taxiway and it has never been a problem so I was a bit uncertain what to do.
In the event, I did slow down more than I would normally have done, but when the other A/C had read back his clearance, I still had to ask the Tower for taxi clearance. I suppose this should have told me that he expected me to proceed.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: No idea.
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did i read somewhere that you should vacate to the "left" unless told to do otherwise? Obviously this wouldnt apply if there is not taxiways off to the left ...
Now, i could easily be wrong about this ... some things just seem to find their way into my head!
Now, i could easily be wrong about this ... some things just seem to find their way into my head!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FireFoxDown makes an interesting point about vacating left.
At controlled airfields I have been happy to vacate at first appropriate taxiway to the left without specific instructions. If I want to vacate right, I ask (if I have not already been given the instruction). On odd occasions, when r/t traffic is heavy, I have waited on the runway before vacating right. Is this wrong?
At uncontrolled airfields, I always turn left to vacate. If the taxiway is on the right, I turn through 270 degrees. I'm fairly sure that this is correct.
On the other hand, it could be a throwback to the days of grass fields without marked runways, where several aircraft could land following parallel tracks, each successive aircraft landing to the right of the preceding one. Still law, perhaps, nut no longer practically relevant. Does anybody feel strong enough to look it up in the ANO?
I have had a quick look in MATS pt 1, but have not found anything relevant.
AA.
At controlled airfields I have been happy to vacate at first appropriate taxiway to the left without specific instructions. If I want to vacate right, I ask (if I have not already been given the instruction). On odd occasions, when r/t traffic is heavy, I have waited on the runway before vacating right. Is this wrong?
At uncontrolled airfields, I always turn left to vacate. If the taxiway is on the right, I turn through 270 degrees. I'm fairly sure that this is correct.
On the other hand, it could be a throwback to the days of grass fields without marked runways, where several aircraft could land following parallel tracks, each successive aircraft landing to the right of the preceding one. Still law, perhaps, nut no longer practically relevant. Does anybody feel strong enough to look it up in the ANO?
I have had a quick look in MATS pt 1, but have not found anything relevant.
AA.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At uncontrolled airfields, I always turn left to vacate. If the taxiway is on the right, I turn through 270 degrees. I'm fairly sure that this is correct.
For Airfields with a runway it's Rule 17(7)(D) which applies -
"A flying machine after landing shall move clear of the landing area as soon as it is possible to do so unless, in the case of an aerodrome having an air traffic control unit, that unit otherwise authorises."
With that in mind a 90 degree turn is a lot quicker than a 270 degree turn
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chilli -- Thanks for that. It makes sense.
I was taught 'vacate left' right from the beginning of flying training and it never occured to me to question it until today.
I shall now have to learn how to suppress images of aircraft about to plough into me from behind as I turn to the right to vacate ;-)
AA.
I was taught 'vacate left' right from the beginning of flying training and it never occured to me to question it until today.
I shall now have to learn how to suppress images of aircraft about to plough into me from behind as I turn to the right to vacate ;-)
AA.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Paros, Greece
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alphaalpha, vacating left on unmarked grass is still relevant. Where I fly from has quite wide grass runways, but only the centre part of the strip is officially runway - the outer third on each side being taxiway. It is normal procedure to exit laft ASAP after landing and continue taxiiing forward, to allow other aircraft to land behind you, on the right hand side of the strip. Using this metod several aircraft can land with spacing of about 20 seconds between each if required, the only rule being that solo students are not allowed to do this. Comes in useful when following a Tiger Moth in a real aircraft I've also seen this being done at Duxford where the grass is VERY wide.
I would have thought vacating left down a marked taxiway, when the ramp/terminal etc. are on the right is only going to cause more problems as you'll have to get clearance to cross back over the active at some point. As for turning through 270 degrees before exiting, what would that achieve? I stand to be corrected of course.
I've also seen this being done at Duxford where the grass is VERY wide.I would have thought vacating left down a marked taxiway, when the ramp/terminal etc. are on the right is only going to cause more problems as you'll have to get clearance to cross back over the active at some point. As for turning through 270 degrees before exiting, what would that achieve? I stand to be corrected of course.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Chilli, I think you are correct...for fields with ATC. However, at uncontrolled fields, all turns "shall be made to the left" for the reason that AA stated, grass field demanded (and indeed continue to demand) certain turning discipline.
I landed on 22 at Glos (I think) and actually vacated the runway at the first left-turn-off-point (i.e. my first exit) and because they were busy, they did not notice that I ended up facing the traffic intending to line up for departure. They had to think of something for my subsequent taxy instructions. It worked out, with a bit of slow-speed weaving.
I landed on 22 at Glos (I think) and actually vacated the runway at the first left-turn-off-point (i.e. my first exit) and because they were busy, they did not notice that I ended up facing the traffic intending to line up for departure. They had to think of something for my subsequent taxy instructions. It worked out, with a bit of slow-speed weaving.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DubTrub
I suggest you re-read my answer - including the QUOTE from the ANO and Rules of the Air. You'll notice it says for all airfields with a runway vacate asap unless an ATC unit says otherwise - nothing about all turns to the left on the ground.
If you're still in disagreement - go look it up yourself - I've given the reference after all
As for your EGBJ occurrence - nothing to stop an initial taxy instruction with a landing clearance if you suspect the aircraft is unfamiliar. Looking at the plate however I can't see how that would happen - unless you landed incredibly short and turned down 09/27 which would be an incredibly daft thing to do bearing in mind the layout of the airfield. Taxy planning in the cruise is a good idea, as Beagle pointed out.
I suggest you re-read my answer - including the QUOTE from the ANO and Rules of the Air. You'll notice it says for all airfields with a runway vacate asap unless an ATC unit says otherwise - nothing about all turns to the left on the ground.
If you're still in disagreement - go look it up yourself - I've given the reference after all
As for your EGBJ occurrence - nothing to stop an initial taxy instruction with a landing clearance if you suspect the aircraft is unfamiliar. Looking at the plate however I can't see how that would happen - unless you landed incredibly short and turned down 09/27 which would be an incredibly daft thing to do bearing in mind the layout of the airfield. Taxy planning in the cruise is a good idea, as Beagle pointed out.
Last edited by Chilli Monster; 18th Jan 2004 at 06:01.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kandahar Afghanistan
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pulse,
The last thing that a controller wants is for you to stop on the runway, and then sit there waiting for directions.
As everyone else stated, please exit the runway at the first available taxiway, cross the hold short line ( in the US you are not clear of the runway until you are on the other side of the hold short line), and then wait for instructions.
If you stop on the runway and wait for instructions, bad things can happen.
Mike
NATCA FWA
The last thing that a controller wants is for you to stop on the runway, and then sit there waiting for directions.
As everyone else stated, please exit the runway at the first available taxiway, cross the hold short line ( in the US you are not clear of the runway until you are on the other side of the hold short line), and then wait for instructions.
If you stop on the runway and wait for instructions, bad things can happen.
Mike
NATCA FWA
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Knobby -- to answer your question about what does a 270 degree turn achieve?:
Until this thread made things clearer, I had two rules in my head:
a) turn left after landing
b) to land on a runway, it must be vacant (ignoring, for the moment, 'land after' clearances from ATC).
I had not put both rules together. In particular, I had not got clear in my mind that the 'turn left' rule only applies to fields without delineated runways.
It is now clear to me that, if I land on runway (with or without ATC), no aeroplane is going to come charging past me on the right hand side of the runway. Therefore, I can vacate left or right according to what is expedient.
My 270 degree turn was to try to obey the turn left rule on a runway with a taxiway to the right, poor misguided soul that I was until PPRuNe showed me the light. ;-)
AA
Until this thread made things clearer, I had two rules in my head:
a) turn left after landing
b) to land on a runway, it must be vacant (ignoring, for the moment, 'land after' clearances from ATC).
I had not put both rules together. In particular, I had not got clear in my mind that the 'turn left' rule only applies to fields without delineated runways.
It is now clear to me that, if I land on runway (with or without ATC), no aeroplane is going to come charging past me on the right hand side of the runway. Therefore, I can vacate left or right according to what is expedient.
My 270 degree turn was to try to obey the turn left rule on a runway with a taxiway to the right, poor misguided soul that I was until PPRuNe showed me the light. ;-)
AA
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Almost Scotland
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems to me (pace other posts) that the only really safe course of action is not to land on a runway, or adjacent, contiguous areas, unless the runway and such contiguous areas are clear?
Having official, or unofficial, taxyway contiguous with a runway seems potentially dangerous.
Having official, or unofficial, taxyway contiguous with a runway seems potentially dangerous.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 2,212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DRJAD
And how do you suggest the aircraft gets from the taxiway to the runway and vice versa if they're not contiguous?
Contiguous -
1: very close or connected in space or time; "contiguous events"; "immediate contact"; "the immediate vicinity"; "the immediate past"
2: connecting without a break; within a common boundary; "the 48 conterminous states"; "the contiguous 48 states"
3: having a common boundary or edge; touching; "abutting lots"; "adjoining rooms"; "Rhode Island has two bordering states; Massachusetts and Conncecticut"; "the side of Germany conterminous with France"; "Utah and the contiguous state of Idaho";
As for not landing if the contiguous taxiway is not clear - well, that's why we have holding point lines and runway 'strips' (a defined area alongside the runway devoid of objects that could cause damage to an aircraft which may leave the runway).
Having official, or unofficial, taxyway contiguous with a runway seems potentially dangerous.
Contiguous -
1: very close or connected in space or time; "contiguous events"; "immediate contact"; "the immediate vicinity"; "the immediate past"
2: connecting without a break; within a common boundary; "the 48 conterminous states"; "the contiguous 48 states"
3: having a common boundary or edge; touching; "abutting lots"; "adjoining rooms"; "Rhode Island has two bordering states; Massachusetts and Conncecticut"; "the side of Germany conterminous with France"; "Utah and the contiguous state of Idaho";
As for not landing if the contiguous taxiway is not clear - well, that's why we have holding point lines and runway 'strips' (a defined area alongside the runway devoid of objects that could cause damage to an aircraft which may leave the runway).
