What would make you choose one airfield/flyingschool over another?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: U.K.
Age: 46
Posts: 3,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This Mid twenty year old FI knows that it is a circular slide rule, despite having been brought up on a diet of calculators and computers. We have to teach failsafe methods of navigation and no electronic device can provide that. Yes it is easier to use an electronic aid, but at the start you MUST understand it properly.
No calculator in the world shows you what it is doing, but an answer will magically pop up on the screen. What if it is wrong? What method have you of checking it?
Look at the decline in numeracy skills since kids have been allowed calculators rather than doing long division etc. This is exactly what happens when we become over-reliant on potentially fallible technology. A slide rule could go wrong, but there a lot less chance of that than running out of batteries after having left an electronic flight computer in the bottom of the flight case for 3 months since the last flight.
Doing the calculations on a piece of paper also doesn't give an instant gross error check. If you do the calcs wrong you have to think about whether the drift is the wrong way, rather than easily seeing it.
All the calculations COULD be useful in flight planning and since a large number are sold to ATPL students, then nearly all the features are used at some point.
Navigation is an art and as such you can't go straight into painting the sistene chapel without learning one end of a brush from the other.
We need to get planning correct, not just on the hoof. That's fine if you are a multi-thousand hour pilot to whom it is second nature, but we all have to start somewhere and this is definately the right place.
As I've said before. Basics first and when you have a good handle on them, then we can teach you how to operate an aircraft rather than just pass a test.
No calculator in the world shows you what it is doing, but an answer will magically pop up on the screen. What if it is wrong? What method have you of checking it?
Look at the decline in numeracy skills since kids have been allowed calculators rather than doing long division etc. This is exactly what happens when we become over-reliant on potentially fallible technology. A slide rule could go wrong, but there a lot less chance of that than running out of batteries after having left an electronic flight computer in the bottom of the flight case for 3 months since the last flight.
Doing the calculations on a piece of paper also doesn't give an instant gross error check. If you do the calcs wrong you have to think about whether the drift is the wrong way, rather than easily seeing it.
All the calculations COULD be useful in flight planning and since a large number are sold to ATPL students, then nearly all the features are used at some point.
Navigation is an art and as such you can't go straight into painting the sistene chapel without learning one end of a brush from the other.
We need to get planning correct, not just on the hoof. That's fine if you are a multi-thousand hour pilot to whom it is second nature, but we all have to start somewhere and this is definately the right place.
As I've said before. Basics first and when you have a good handle on them, then we can teach you how to operate an aircraft rather than just pass a test.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DNMM/UK
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My ideal PPLflying school will be 10 aircraft:
2 modern looking 2-seaters (Katana, eagle 150) with steam gauges, to keep training costs down
4 modern XC tourers (DA-40, SR20 series). 2 of these will be on the N-register
1 tailwheel aerobatic aircraft
1 4 seat spam (PA28, c172)
1 Twin (Preferably DA42)
1 high performance complex 6-str (PA32)
1 flight simulator
The ideal syllabus will be an FAA part 141 combined PPL/IR 70hr minimum course, assuming a uk school can be granted Part 141 approval.
At the end of this course the student will be able to fly day VFR in G-Reg a/c and day/night vfr/ifr in N-reg aircraft. the pilot will have a reasonable level of VFR proficiency but should be adviced to take it easy with IMC stuff.
There will be an option of converting to a JAA PPL/IMC by 'simply' doing the the ground exams and a PPL skills test.
The course will include 2 hours extra night training (FAA minimum is 3 hours).
'Proper use of GPS' will be taught throughout the course. like it or not GPS is here to stay. Its only a matter of time before the government realises that it can save loads of £££ by making the GPS the primary navaid, instead of spending millions maintaining decades old NDbs and VORs.
The school will also run an FAA-thingy (Forgottn the exact word) that allows it students to buy N-reg aircraft.
The school will also help people run aircraft syndicates. This will be benecial to new pilot as they wouldn't have experience with this sort fo thing. The school will own a share in the aircraft so it has flexibility in terms of numbers and types. The school sell shares at a discount for aircraft that participate in this scheme (I believe its called "lease back").
So even though the school may not have a microlight, it can a purchase and sell shares to members.
The school should have a reliable mainatainance facility on site.
2 modern looking 2-seaters (Katana, eagle 150) with steam gauges, to keep training costs down
4 modern XC tourers (DA-40, SR20 series). 2 of these will be on the N-register
1 tailwheel aerobatic aircraft
1 4 seat spam (PA28, c172)
1 Twin (Preferably DA42)
1 high performance complex 6-str (PA32)
1 flight simulator
The ideal syllabus will be an FAA part 141 combined PPL/IR 70hr minimum course, assuming a uk school can be granted Part 141 approval.
At the end of this course the student will be able to fly day VFR in G-Reg a/c and day/night vfr/ifr in N-reg aircraft. the pilot will have a reasonable level of VFR proficiency but should be adviced to take it easy with IMC stuff.
There will be an option of converting to a JAA PPL/IMC by 'simply' doing the the ground exams and a PPL skills test.
The course will include 2 hours extra night training (FAA minimum is 3 hours).
'Proper use of GPS' will be taught throughout the course. like it or not GPS is here to stay. Its only a matter of time before the government realises that it can save loads of £££ by making the GPS the primary navaid, instead of spending millions maintaining decades old NDbs and VORs.
The school will also run an FAA-thingy (Forgottn the exact word) that allows it students to buy N-reg aircraft.
The school will also help people run aircraft syndicates. This will be benecial to new pilot as they wouldn't have experience with this sort fo thing. The school will own a share in the aircraft so it has flexibility in terms of numbers and types. The school sell shares at a discount for aircraft that participate in this scheme (I believe its called "lease back").
So even though the school may not have a microlight, it can a purchase and sell shares to members.
The school should have a reliable mainatainance facility on site.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capt. Manuvar
Except for the PA32 (an old dog which is a six-seater only if you can find five women of size 8 or less - naturally desirable but increasingly hard these days with a 36C being average
) I think your proposal is brilliant.
I too think a PPL+IMCR or the FAA PPL/IR is the minimum useful syllabus for anyone who wants to fly to see places... it just seems too much for most people to swallow. In practice it might restrict customers too much because a lot of people can become good VMC PPLs but can't really get into proper instrument flight.
If I was teaching someone I care about to fly I would make sure they can do an ILS before they go anywhere far, but again in reality this sort of "half baked IFR" cannot be done formally.
As far as I know, the FAA PPL/IR is already being taught 100% in the UK, and in aircraft which are not owned by the students. So it should be possible.
The thing you couldn't name is a Trust arrangement.
Except for the PA32 (an old dog which is a six-seater only if you can find five women of size 8 or less - naturally desirable but increasingly hard these days with a 36C being average
) I think your proposal is brilliant.I too think a PPL+IMCR or the FAA PPL/IR is the minimum useful syllabus for anyone who wants to fly to see places... it just seems too much for most people to swallow. In practice it might restrict customers too much because a lot of people can become good VMC PPLs but can't really get into proper instrument flight.
If I was teaching someone I care about to fly I would make sure they can do an ILS before they go anywhere far, but again in reality this sort of "half baked IFR" cannot be done formally.
As far as I know, the FAA PPL/IR is already being taught 100% in the UK, and in aircraft which are not owned by the students. So it should be possible.
The thing you couldn't name is a Trust arrangement.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DNMM/UK
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IO-540,
thanks a lot, the word just seemed to skip me.
I totally agree that the PPL/IR course will be abit tediuos for most people, it seems the most practical choice for the business flyer.
Business flyers (and rich boys looking for expensive toys) are a big market and are set to become even bigger with the new light jets and modern light aircraft with glass cockpits.
i dont think anyone's going to let you touch an eclipse without an IR. It wouldn't be practical to operate one without an IR in the UK anyway.
as for the PA32, i've never flown one before but i'm not suprised
Capt. manuvar
thanks a lot, the word just seemed to skip me.
I totally agree that the PPL/IR course will be abit tediuos for most people, it seems the most practical choice for the business flyer.
Business flyers (and rich boys looking for expensive toys) are a big market and are set to become even bigger with the new light jets and modern light aircraft with glass cockpits.
i dont think anyone's going to let you touch an eclipse without an IR. It wouldn't be practical to operate one without an IR in the UK anyway.
as for the PA32, i've never flown one before but i'm not suprised
Capt. manuvar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capt. Manuvar
One was trying to avoid the term "rich boys" because - regardless of the marketing reality - in GA it stirs up quite a reaction
One can fly a jet on a PPL with a type rating but I gather nobody will train it unless the student already has an IR. Somebody I know has found this out after they bought one... But jets are airways machines anyway - a whole different game which I think is already covered on the training front.
One was trying to avoid the term "rich boys" because - regardless of the marketing reality - in GA it stirs up quite a reaction
One can fly a jet on a PPL with a type rating but I gather nobody will train it unless the student already has an IR. Somebody I know has found this out after they bought one... But jets are airways machines anyway - a whole different game which I think is already covered on the training front.
