Technical questions about flying in the US – NOT ‘where should I go’
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McCarran is a must just for the final approach and really no problem so long as you're vaguely awake. I would recommend doing it at night.
Executive have been known to say no if you phone and ask them for handling (they prefer shiny jets) but not if you just turn up. I was told by the ground controller that Executive weren't accepting light singles so went to Signature but its worth persevering as Executive are cheaper.
I would also recommend Bryce Canyon if you're going to Utah.
Executive have been known to say no if you phone and ask them for handling (they prefer shiny jets) but not if you just turn up. I was told by the ground controller that Executive weren't accepting light singles so went to Signature but its worth persevering as Executive are cheaper.
I would also recommend Bryce Canyon if you're going to Utah.
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Would like to fly east to see monument valley but I don't think we'll have time really
Just my opinion, but in terms of vistas I don't think there's anything more 'American' than Monument valley (perhaps the Manhatten skyline). It's certainly a must-see when I go hour-building there. Anyone know what regs apply for overflying it?
(Just read your thread title properly, knobby - whoops!)
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Would agree with what strafer says. I recently did a big hour building cross country trip from San Jose CA to Amarillo TX and back. Stayed overnight at St. George and would challenge anyone to find a better view than the one offered by the motel right next to the airport for less than the $34/night. The next day flew to overhead Page and then on to Albuquerque and Monument Valley was very clear and visible from about 70 miles south. Certainly one of the things that will stick in the memory for a long time.
Also would just like to add that the FSS briefing service is excellent and is just one of the many things about flying in the US that makes you think that it's almost as though they want GA to flourish.
Also would just like to add that the FSS briefing service is excellent and is just one of the many things about flying in the US that makes you think that it's almost as though they want GA to flourish.
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There is no "airport" within walking distance of the Mexican border in AZ, and nothing worth the walk if there was.
Very luckily for them, the safety pilot was of hyspanic origin and managed to blag their way out of jail for a few paeso's....departed VFR with a quick right turn and landed at Brown. The danger is not getting banged up in a mexican jail, the real danger is getting shot down by a monkey on a stick in his F16 when re-entering US airspace
(I think they 'overlooked' the DVFR flight plan requirement on the way to get home 'before anyone noticed'....Still they got away with it )JAC would be a brilliant flight, been there in a 737, landing in a blizzard which was quite a ride. Was going to fly there, but the missed approach IFR procedure requires climb to 15,000' (not to mention icing). Unless you're lucky to have clear blue skies it'd be impossible to get in there VFR.
The AFD will provide who to call for flight following, or something like a Jeppesen airport guide. My wifes friend IS female, but I'm afraid she's married
Have a good trip....By the way, for a very good deal, land at Laughlin / Bullhead city, which is South of Vegas. Bullhead airport is in Arizona, Laughlin, just across the road is in Nevada. Cheap hotels ($25 per night, bloody lovely), casinos, free booze, girls serving you in short skirts.....Phone the FBO before you go, and thy'll arrange the hotels at their special rate. Its $5 over night parking unless you take fuel (yep, 3 pounds!) then its free........
CU
EA
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Flying in the U.S.
I gave a seminar on just this topic at the Pacific Flying Club last spring.
To rent a U.S. registered aircraft, you'll need a current U.S. license which would be based on your U.K. or JAR license. I was able to get mine at a FSDO (Fizzdoe) in Ft. Lauderdale twelve years ago. No big thing. There are FSDO's all over the place. Contact the FAA for info.
Put as much fuel in the tanks as possible. Distances in the western U.S. are great. Try to plan your fuel stops with at least two hours in the tank. Landing dead stick on an interstate is not a lot of fun. Airnav.com will give you info on the cheapest fuel around any area.
If you've learned how to fly, you can operate a self-service fueler. Just follow the directions. When it asks how much, just punch "fill up." There will be a maximum amount for each concession but you won't even come close.
All FBO's have oil. Not a concern.
Ask for flight following from the local ATC facility. Like me with my Canadian registration, when they hear your Brit accent, they'll assume you're an idiot...and you'll be taken on. They'll keep you clear of restricted areas but it would be a good idea to know where you are and where you are going. GPS helps.
I don't tip the lineman unless they drive me somewhere in their car, lend me their car or generally do something above and beyond. Don't worry about insurance on courtesy cars. That's usually been seen to by virtue of the FBO insurance coverage. Good idea to put some gas in before you return it. Don't expect much in the way of wheels, by the way. I borrowed a Lincoln from an FBO in St. George, Utah that had dirty underwear and someone's half eaten lunch in the back seat. In Medford, Oregon, the Cadillac I borrowed didn't have a fourth wheel. Bring a camera; the folks back home will enjoy seeing the courtesy cars.
AOPA has a great publication that you can buy...or borrow, that has all the airports in the U.S. listed by state. Invaluable. When you go to hotels, ask for the "Crew Rate." Remember, you're the captain of that airplane you flew in on.
Best way to find a good restaurant is by local knowledge. Ask a cop...or better yet, phone a dentist. The receptionist will know everything about everything.
Careful of thunderstorms in the Southwest. February is not really the major TS season, but you never know. Make sure you don't fly cross-border by accident. Big brother is watching.
Local pilots are a great resource. Make friends. Buy some U.K. flag pins as gifts for those who help you.
Enjoy.
Fred
To rent a U.S. registered aircraft, you'll need a current U.S. license which would be based on your U.K. or JAR license. I was able to get mine at a FSDO (Fizzdoe) in Ft. Lauderdale twelve years ago. No big thing. There are FSDO's all over the place. Contact the FAA for info.
Put as much fuel in the tanks as possible. Distances in the western U.S. are great. Try to plan your fuel stops with at least two hours in the tank. Landing dead stick on an interstate is not a lot of fun. Airnav.com will give you info on the cheapest fuel around any area.
If you've learned how to fly, you can operate a self-service fueler. Just follow the directions. When it asks how much, just punch "fill up." There will be a maximum amount for each concession but you won't even come close.
All FBO's have oil. Not a concern.
Ask for flight following from the local ATC facility. Like me with my Canadian registration, when they hear your Brit accent, they'll assume you're an idiot...and you'll be taken on. They'll keep you clear of restricted areas but it would be a good idea to know where you are and where you are going. GPS helps.
I don't tip the lineman unless they drive me somewhere in their car, lend me their car or generally do something above and beyond. Don't worry about insurance on courtesy cars. That's usually been seen to by virtue of the FBO insurance coverage. Good idea to put some gas in before you return it. Don't expect much in the way of wheels, by the way. I borrowed a Lincoln from an FBO in St. George, Utah that had dirty underwear and someone's half eaten lunch in the back seat. In Medford, Oregon, the Cadillac I borrowed didn't have a fourth wheel. Bring a camera; the folks back home will enjoy seeing the courtesy cars.
AOPA has a great publication that you can buy...or borrow, that has all the airports in the U.S. listed by state. Invaluable. When you go to hotels, ask for the "Crew Rate." Remember, you're the captain of that airplane you flew in on.
Best way to find a good restaurant is by local knowledge. Ask a cop...or better yet, phone a dentist. The receptionist will know everything about everything.
Careful of thunderstorms in the Southwest. February is not really the major TS season, but you never know. Make sure you don't fly cross-border by accident. Big brother is watching.
Local pilots are a great resource. Make friends. Buy some U.K. flag pins as gifts for those who help you.
Enjoy.
Fred
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Totally agree what's been said about Flight Following. New Mexico publish a (FREE!) state VFR aviation chart, on the back of Which is a frequency sector map for FSS and FF. Arizona used to have a similar map but I havn't seen it for a while. The NM map is available from FBO's or no doubt the Governor's office if you write to them - his photo is in it!
North Las Vegas (Northtown to locals) has intersecting runways and LAHSO operations. Evidently they had an incursion collision this year BUT it's a great place and I've never had any kind of problem there, flying there every year except this since 1985. They publish a leaflet with a ground map and aerial photo. There are 2 casinos just down the street - Fiesta and Texas - but note the free ride downtown or strip is one way only. A cab back costs maybe $20. VFR routes into VGT are shown on the terminal area chart, which you should have as well as the sectional.
Do go to Monument Valley. Just go up Lake Powell (Very scenic) to Navajo Mountain and hang a right. It'll add an hour or so to your direct route Page - Winslow. The valley is Indian land, not nat'l park etc., and they are apparently used to people flying low beween the towers. There is a strip there (gravel with a paved bit). There are always people in the valley so the 500' rule applies, but then the towers are 1000' tall. There are big black birds that chase aeroplanes (or me in a 152 anyway) so keep your eyes open!
North Las Vegas (Northtown to locals) has intersecting runways and LAHSO operations. Evidently they had an incursion collision this year BUT it's a great place and I've never had any kind of problem there, flying there every year except this since 1985. They publish a leaflet with a ground map and aerial photo. There are 2 casinos just down the street - Fiesta and Texas - but note the free ride downtown or strip is one way only. A cab back costs maybe $20. VFR routes into VGT are shown on the terminal area chart, which you should have as well as the sectional.
Do go to Monument Valley. Just go up Lake Powell (Very scenic) to Navajo Mountain and hang a right. It'll add an hour or so to your direct route Page - Winslow. The valley is Indian land, not nat'l park etc., and they are apparently used to people flying low beween the towers. There is a strip there (gravel with a paved bit). There are always people in the valley so the 500' rule applies, but then the towers are 1000' tall. There are big black birds that chase aeroplanes (or me in a 152 anyway) so keep your eyes open!
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Ah, but San Diego county is in California. The border fence might be walking distance away from Brown Field, but if you try to hop over it they will lock you up. Closest legal frontier crossing point is several miles away, and again the other side is not worth the walk. If you want to do Mexico you should get a flight into the interior, or walk over to TJ and spend a night on the 'Avenue de La Revulsion'.
Monument Valley is one of those places where you are requested to stay 2000ft (I think, no charts here, but they have the dotted blue line around the area) above the highest point, but technically the 500ft rule is the law. This is one of those times where you have to consider your social responsibilities as a flyer. The nicely narrow strip there is one of the rare ones where you have to call ahead, and if you get it wrong and go around you will end up in a cliff.
Monument Valley is one of those places where you are requested to stay 2000ft (I think, no charts here, but they have the dotted blue line around the area) above the highest point, but technically the 500ft rule is the law. This is one of those times where you have to consider your social responsibilities as a flyer. The nicely narrow strip there is one of the rare ones where you have to call ahead, and if you get it wrong and go around you will end up in a cliff.
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knobbygb,
You have received very good advice here and I have only one item to add...
When you call the FSS for a flight briefing, always ask for a 'standard briefing' as this will provide you with information about TFR's (temp flight restrictions). Always ask about these.
The President and Vice President travel extensively, and when they do, these TFR's are enforced with armed aircraft.
Altho you are not likely to be shot down, if you enter these TFR's without authorization (ie: a filed flight plan and a discrete transponder code) you could be subject to interception, and when you land, a visit to the local jail are a distinct possibility.
The Flight Service folks will give you the information you need to navigate around these areas, or the data to enter same.
These TFR's sometimes are issued on short notice.
You have received very good advice here and I have only one item to add...
When you call the FSS for a flight briefing, always ask for a 'standard briefing' as this will provide you with information about TFR's (temp flight restrictions). Always ask about these.
The President and Vice President travel extensively, and when they do, these TFR's are enforced with armed aircraft.
Altho you are not likely to be shot down, if you enter these TFR's without authorization (ie: a filed flight plan and a discrete transponder code) you could be subject to interception, and when you land, a visit to the local jail are a distinct possibility.
The Flight Service folks will give you the information you need to navigate around these areas, or the data to enter same.
These TFR's sometimes are issued on short notice.
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Good point from 411A. Normally many of the TFRs only apply to VFR traffic not talking to anyone. If you're IFR or receiving Flight Following from an ATC unit, and have been assigned a descrete txpdr code then you don't need to worry.
An example of this is the Disney land TFR in California. It is something like 3nm radius and up to 3000'. However if you're talking to socal, either IFR or VFR and have been issued a transponder code then its not a problem, you can enter the TFR. If for some reason they want you to avoid them they'll advise you.
Another thing is flight plans. VFR flight plans are not really worth filing unless you have a special reason (crossing the Mexican border for example). If you're receiving FF then this is better than being on a VFR flight plan.....
OK, I'll shut up now
Cheers
EA
An example of this is the Disney land TFR in California. It is something like 3nm radius and up to 3000'. However if you're talking to socal, either IFR or VFR and have been issued a transponder code then its not a problem, you can enter the TFR. If for some reason they want you to avoid them they'll advise you.
Another thing is flight plans. VFR flight plans are not really worth filing unless you have a special reason (crossing the Mexican border for example). If you're receiving FF then this is better than being on a VFR flight plan.....
OK, I'll shut up now
Cheers
EA
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Ah...englishal, just a slight correction to your post.
To be able to enter a Presidential TFR you must be on an IFR flight plan or a VFR flight plan previously filed with the FSS.
Enroute flight following will keep you clear of the TFR's (hopefully) but that VFR flight plan is a necessity to enter same.
The Presidential TFR is very large, a thirty nm radius, with a ten mile 'no fly zone' in the middle.
You should have seen the huffing and puffing from the bizjet crowd at SDL last week when the President visited PHX and the SDL airport was closed for five hours.
After he got back in his big shiney Boeing and flew away, all was normal.
Edited for additional comment;
VFR flight plans filed with FSS are very useful. They contain, amoung other items, the color of the aircraft and the name/telephone contact of the PIC.
If the aircraft should have a forced landing enroute, the Civil Air Patrol will start a search as soon as possible, and will fly grid patterns (in daylight hours) until the the aircraft is found. In addition, these CAP aircraft contain equipment to home in to the ELT.
Flight watch is available from LRCO's (limited remote communication outlet) on 122.0 almost everywhere.
Have personally seen searches conducted for two weeks, until the aircraft (and folks) were found....alive.
MedEvac helicopters are on call 24/7 for airlift to the nearest hospital, especially in Arizona and California.
IMHO, that VFR flight plan is very important.
To be able to enter a Presidential TFR you must be on an IFR flight plan or a VFR flight plan previously filed with the FSS.
Enroute flight following will keep you clear of the TFR's (hopefully) but that VFR flight plan is a necessity to enter same.
The Presidential TFR is very large, a thirty nm radius, with a ten mile 'no fly zone' in the middle.
You should have seen the huffing and puffing from the bizjet crowd at SDL last week when the President visited PHX and the SDL airport was closed for five hours.
After he got back in his big shiney Boeing and flew away, all was normal.
Edited for additional comment;
VFR flight plans filed with FSS are very useful. They contain, amoung other items, the color of the aircraft and the name/telephone contact of the PIC.
If the aircraft should have a forced landing enroute, the Civil Air Patrol will start a search as soon as possible, and will fly grid patterns (in daylight hours) until the the aircraft is found. In addition, these CAP aircraft contain equipment to home in to the ELT.
Flight watch is available from LRCO's (limited remote communication outlet) on 122.0 almost everywhere.
Have personally seen searches conducted for two weeks, until the aircraft (and folks) were found....alive.
MedEvac helicopters are on call 24/7 for airlift to the nearest hospital, especially in Arizona and California.
IMHO, that VFR flight plan is very important.
Last edited by 411A; 7th Dec 2003 at 12:00.
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Thanks. I meant to ask about flight plans but forgot. I must admit that I was of the same opinion as englishal - that there wasn't much point most of the time (other than airspace issues such as TFR's and ADIZ's etc.), but I've read 411A's comments and while I don't PROMISE to file for every flight, I certainley will for the longer, remote flights. That terrain looks VERY remote and hostile in places. I know what to do - I've filed them before, I just get lazy sometimes. Anyway, I reckon I should always be in radio contact on my planned route, and will be flying as high as possible, both to keep in radar cover, and to give me more time to panic, er... I mean plan if somthing sohould go wrong.
Good point about asking crew discounts - didn't think of that. And looks like I should be able to use FBO cars for that quick hop into town. Tell you what though, aren't some americans lazy gits (no offence - just my opinion - and I said SOME, not all). Lots of these places advertise things like "Borrow our crew car to go to the local resterant, or if you need to stretch your legs, it's just 100 Yards away - don't worry it's down hill!" or "The motel is right across the street, we'll take you there in out courtesy van". I don't mean to be ungrateful, but do these people think legs are soley for use on rudder pedals and 'fresh air' is somthing that comes out of an airconditioning duct in the dashboard?
What could be more pleasant than landing at a small rural airfield and walking a mile or two into town along a dusty desert road to find breakfast? End rant.
www.airnav.com - can't agree more - an invaluable tool for planning a trip. Particularly like the bit that gives fuel prices for 50 mile radius of your destination. My second favourite aviation website after prune.
Another good website is www.swaviator.com Southwest Aviator magazine carries loads of articles about interesting destinations in that part of the world and is the home of the '£100 hamburger' series. Loads of past articles on the website.
strafer, I WILL try to do monument valley. I flew over it once inbound to PHX in a BA 777 and it looked bl**dy amazing from 36,000ft, I must say. We'll just have to get up real early. Sunrise in Page on that day is 06:56 - I checked - the rock formations will look even better in the early morning (or late evening) light. If we take off at 06:30 (no night rating) we might just make it out there for sunrise. EDIT: Yes, I know I can fly an hour before sunrise over there, but I don't think it'll be light enough at that latitude. Perhaps 411A, being local, could advise. Thanks
Good point about asking crew discounts - didn't think of that. And looks like I should be able to use FBO cars for that quick hop into town. Tell you what though, aren't some americans lazy gits (no offence - just my opinion - and I said SOME, not all). Lots of these places advertise things like "Borrow our crew car to go to the local resterant, or if you need to stretch your legs, it's just 100 Yards away - don't worry it's down hill!" or "The motel is right across the street, we'll take you there in out courtesy van". I don't mean to be ungrateful, but do these people think legs are soley for use on rudder pedals and 'fresh air' is somthing that comes out of an airconditioning duct in the dashboard?
What could be more pleasant than landing at a small rural airfield and walking a mile or two into town along a dusty desert road to find breakfast? End rant.www.airnav.com - can't agree more - an invaluable tool for planning a trip. Particularly like the bit that gives fuel prices for 50 mile radius of your destination. My second favourite aviation website after prune.
Another good website is www.swaviator.com Southwest Aviator magazine carries loads of articles about interesting destinations in that part of the world and is the home of the '£100 hamburger' series. Loads of past articles on the website.
strafer, I WILL try to do monument valley. I flew over it once inbound to PHX in a BA 777 and it looked bl**dy amazing from 36,000ft, I must say. We'll just have to get up real early. Sunrise in Page on that day is 06:56 - I checked - the rock formations will look even better in the early morning (or late evening) light. If we take off at 06:30 (no night rating) we might just make it out there for sunrise. EDIT: Yes, I know I can fly an hour before sunrise over there, but I don't think it'll be light enough at that latitude. Perhaps 411A, being local, could advise. Thanks
Last edited by knobbygb; 7th Dec 2003 at 19:21.
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Ah yea, the Presidental TFRs...nasty things those 
There will often be temp airport closures under the 30 mile Bush Vale, but those nice guys and gals (except one, who, when I asked the status of Big Bear during the California fires told me "Uh, I don't know, could have burnt down for all I care...."
) will brief you well.
By the way, Aeroplanner.com is a good source of info Some of it is free, (like graphical TFRs) but its an excellent service.
Cheers
There will often be temp airport closures under the 30 mile Bush Vale, but those nice guys and gals (except one, who, when I asked the status of Big Bear during the California fires told me "Uh, I don't know, could have burnt down for all I care...." ) will brief you well.By the way, Aeroplanner.com is a good source of info Some of it is free, (like graphical TFRs) but its an excellent service.
Cheers
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knobbygb,
If you depart Page one hour before official sunrise, you will certainly have a good view...breathtaking in fact.
However, in February it will be well below freezing, so you may need preheat for your aircraft.
Arrange for this the afternoon before, to avoid disappointments.
If you depart Page one hour before official sunrise, you will certainly have a good view...breathtaking in fact.
However, in February it will be well below freezing, so you may need preheat for your aircraft.
Arrange for this the afternoon before, to avoid disappointments.
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knobbygb,
There are a few places that rent at CHD, but if you are renting from the place I think you are, you better file and activate a flight plan every time. The owners often call up FSS to check, and they will give you a hard time if you don't. Great place, but they need getting used to, which means doing things their way
Aim Far, thanks, was from memory, and you are correct
Re AF1, I was on a United flight into Tokyo a few weeks back and we followed AF1 across the N Pacific. Listening in on Channel 9 to Tokyo control, they only ever called out traffic to AF1. Perhaps they didn't want any surprises, but it often took AF1 some time to acknowledge spotting it. Thought they would have better situational awareness...
When Dubya went to SDL recently, friends of mine who fly the medivac have had to put up with them shutting large sections of PHX airspace down for him, and even the medivac helicopters have been kept out on routine flights, but calling 'lifeguard' lets them in. Some of his blood was flown in beforehand, and typed and matched at several PHX hospitals, under the watchful eye of Dubya's own people. That blood was then reserved solely for his use, nobody else would have got it. Not sure he is that important
There are a few places that rent at CHD, but if you are renting from the place I think you are, you better file and activate a flight plan every time. The owners often call up FSS to check, and they will give you a hard time if you don't. Great place, but they need getting used to, which means doing things their way
Aim Far, thanks, was from memory, and you are correct
Re AF1, I was on a United flight into Tokyo a few weeks back and we followed AF1 across the N Pacific. Listening in on Channel 9 to Tokyo control, they only ever called out traffic to AF1. Perhaps they didn't want any surprises, but it often took AF1 some time to acknowledge spotting it. Thought they would have better situational awareness...
When Dubya went to SDL recently, friends of mine who fly the medivac have had to put up with them shutting large sections of PHX airspace down for him, and even the medivac helicopters have been kept out on routine flights, but calling 'lifeguard' lets them in. Some of his blood was flown in beforehand, and typed and matched at several PHX hospitals, under the watchful eye of Dubya's own people. That blood was then reserved solely for his use, nobody else would have got it. Not sure he is that important
Last edited by slim_slag; 8th Dec 2003 at 02:32.
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VFR Flight Plans
Some pilots are reluctant to use flight plans, which might relate to a fear of forgetting to close, resulting in a bawling out or worse.
So what does happen? I once nearly forgot, and was told by FSS that "one more minute and the helicopters would have launched" which I doubt since I landed at my (towered) destination. Surely they would phone, or send the Sherriff to check the ramp if no tower? Does anyone know? Could you get a bill for wasting police, or worse, helicopter time?
Just curious.
BTW, my formula now is to open/close in the air with FSS rather than waiting to get to a phone, which is how I nearly went overdue, and I find this proceedure simpler and easier to remember. I had an approach control volunteer to open a plan for me when I asked for a frequency change recently, but don't know if this is common because when leaving Delta there's no requirement to request change so I just announce it.
Some pilots are reluctant to use flight plans, which might relate to a fear of forgetting to close, resulting in a bawling out or worse.
So what does happen? I once nearly forgot, and was told by FSS that "one more minute and the helicopters would have launched" which I doubt since I landed at my (towered) destination. Surely they would phone, or send the Sherriff to check the ramp if no tower? Does anyone know? Could you get a bill for wasting police, or worse, helicopter time?
Just curious.
BTW, my formula now is to open/close in the air with FSS rather than waiting to get to a phone, which is how I nearly went overdue, and I find this proceedure simpler and easier to remember. I had an approach control volunteer to open a plan for me when I asked for a frequency change recently, but don't know if this is common because when leaving Delta there's no requirement to request change so I just announce it.
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David,
You are responsible for closing and/or opening your VFR flight plans through FSS. The tower controllers may offer to open or close a VFR flight plan for you.
As for SAR, the first step is that a phone call is made to your filed destination airport to see if you arrived (they will call the local airport manager, and if they don't answer, they will call the local police to check the ramp).
If your aircraft is not there (parked on the ramp) then an ALNOT (Alert Notice) is sent out to all air traffic facilities along your route of flight to see if anyone knows where you are at. If no one knows where you are at or has worked you (provided VFR radar advisories) then the controlling enroute facility is notified that you are missing. The enroute center will notify Scott AFB after all standard methods to locate you have failed, Scott AFB then activates Search and Rescue.
Mike
NATCA FWA
You are responsible for closing and/or opening your VFR flight plans through FSS. The tower controllers may offer to open or close a VFR flight plan for you.
As for SAR, the first step is that a phone call is made to your filed destination airport to see if you arrived (they will call the local airport manager, and if they don't answer, they will call the local police to check the ramp).
If your aircraft is not there (parked on the ramp) then an ALNOT (Alert Notice) is sent out to all air traffic facilities along your route of flight to see if anyone knows where you are at. If no one knows where you are at or has worked you (provided VFR radar advisories) then the controlling enroute facility is notified that you are missing. The enroute center will notify Scott AFB after all standard methods to locate you have failed, Scott AFB then activates Search and Rescue.
Mike
NATCA FWA
