What is a Pa27 ???????????
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Once upon a time, the "T" in the designator meant "Turbocharged". Then someone said it meant T-tail, and we have confusion.
Arrow 4 isn't much different from Arrow 1, 2 and 3 in performance. Arrow 4 is available with turbocharged engine, which makes a big difference - but you can't tell from the code if it is Turbo. Or can you?
Arrow 4 isn't much different from Arrow 1, 2 and 3 in performance. Arrow 4 is available with turbocharged engine, which makes a big difference - but you can't tell from the code if it is Turbo. Or can you?
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Keef, I think the T for Turbo comes before the R?
So a PA28TR is a turbo Arrow. A PA28RT is an Arrow 4. And a PA28TRT would, I presume, be a turbo Arrow 4?
FFF
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I've just done some research, and I'm completely wrong. Ok, not completely wrong, just a bit wrong.
The T for Turbo comes after the engine horsepower part. So a PA28R-201T is a turbo Arrow. A PA28RT-201 is an Arrow 4. And a PA28RT-201T is a turbo Arrow 4. I think!
FFF
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So a PA28TR is a turbo Arrow. A PA28RT is an Arrow 4. And a PA28TRT would, I presume, be a turbo Arrow 4?
FFF
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I've just done some research, and I'm completely wrong. Ok, not completely wrong, just a bit wrong.
The T for Turbo comes after the engine horsepower part. So a PA28R-201T is a turbo Arrow. A PA28RT-201 is an Arrow 4. And a PA28RT-201T is a turbo Arrow 4. I think!
FFF
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Last edited by FlyingForFun; 26th Sep 2003 at 17:59.
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Bookworm
Thanks for that info. The PA28A certainly seems a broad church and in my experience has a difference in cruise speed of circa 20kts btween bottom and top models. Wonder if this is an issue for ATC or is a 90kt versus 110 cruise of little impact in real terms?
I notice that the PA32 is split into PA32, PA32R and PA32T (for the T tailed Lances), which makes sense.
Thanks for that info. The PA28A certainly seems a broad church and in my experience has a difference in cruise speed of circa 20kts btween bottom and top models. Wonder if this is an issue for ATC or is a 90kt versus 110 cruise of little impact in real terms?
I notice that the PA32 is split into PA32, PA32R and PA32T (for the T tailed Lances), which makes sense.
The issue that I was trying to get across is that you have just 4 characters for an ICAO designator. I've no doubt that Piper calls it a PA28R-201T or a PA28RT-201 but for the FPL it's a P28R or P28T.
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The issue that I was trying to get across is that you have just 4 characters for an ICAO designator. I've no doubt that Piper calls it a PA28R-201T or a PA28RT-201 but for the FPL it's a P28R or P28T.
My second post was made after following your link and reading the ICAO info on the AOPA site.
Thus the PA28A takes in the PA28-140 (90 kts) to the PA28-181 (110kts) and means a 20kt cruise variation, which the ATCO may or may not find difficult, whcih was the thrust of my question.
The PA32 range is split (by ICAO) into PA32, PA23R and PA32T, which as I said makes more sense to me, as those three sub types sit together pretty well.
Thanks
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Returning somewhat belatedly to the original query, DB6 had it right. Certification of all Aztecs, from the Aztec 250 to the final model Turbo F, was 'grandfathered' on the Type Certificate of the PA-23 Apache. The official FAA-recognised designation of any Aztec is thus PA-23-250 (or -235 in the case of the Apache 235). Piper used factory serial nos. with 27- prefixes throughout Aztec production, presumably because the original Aztec 250 and Aztec B and the last Apaches 160s (G and H models) were on the line at the same time. ICAO designators aside, there is no such thing as a 'PA-27'.
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TallDark&Handsome
Now that's interesting, because thumbs are not digits.
So I ask myself, would I rather have the p*ss taken out of me for some obvious typos or for talking nonsense.
Makes me think of Churchill and Lady Astor
A good trick is to look at one of your hands (just one mind you) and, on most people, the number of digits is five. If you fold away the thumb it becomes 4
So I ask myself, would I rather have the p*ss taken out of me for some obvious typos or for talking nonsense.
Makes me think of Churchill and Lady Astor
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Wow, I start a thread off & then turn my back for a week or two and.........
Hehe, anyway thanks to everyone who contributed to the final answer that IN ACTUAL FACT THERE IS NO SUCH AEROPLANE CALLED A PA27
So the next time I hear some smart@rse waffling on the R/T about being a "know it all waffle waffle Pa27 etc...." I can think to myself WHAT A FC*KIN IDIOT !
And before anyone jumps up to defend themselves or "others", Yes I do understand the worthy comments regarding the Aztecs ICAO code but at the end of the day an Aztec is a Pa23, always was & always will be
Neg G
Hehe, anyway thanks to everyone who contributed to the final answer that IN ACTUAL FACT THERE IS NO SUCH AEROPLANE CALLED A PA27
So the next time I hear some smart@rse waffling on the R/T about being a "know it all waffle waffle Pa27 etc...." I can think to myself WHAT A FC*KIN IDIOT !
And before anyone jumps up to defend themselves or "others", Yes I do understand the worthy comments regarding the Aztecs ICAO code but at the end of the day an Aztec is a Pa23, always was & always will be
Neg G
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-veG
I guess you can think what you want, but the reason that aircraft are described as PA27 has been very clearly and simply explained to you by a number of Aztec pilots and ATCOs.
If you don't understand the reasoning, fine, but I think that reflects your intellectual capabilities rather than those using the terminology.
W
I guess you can think what you want, but the reason that aircraft are described as PA27 has been very clearly and simply explained to you by a number of Aztec pilots and ATCOs.
If you don't understand the reasoning, fine, but I think that reflects your intellectual capabilities rather than those using the terminology.
W
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WC
Hmmmmm I rest my case !
Neg G
And before anyone jumps up to defend themselves or "others", Yes I do understand the worthy comments regarding the Aztecs ICAO code but at the end of the day an Aztec is a Pa23, always was & always will be
Neg G
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I fly a PA27 - S**t I mean PA23 - NO make that an Aztec (But mine looks like an Apache as everyone keeps telling me).
My point is DOES IT REALLY MATTER!!!
So long as the message is understood. I hear far worse R/T than this.
The FISO at Elstree will not hear of an Aztec being called a PA23 you will be on the receiving end of his infamous dressing down.
If your blood boils by a pilot calling an Aztec a PA27 then maybe a cockpit is not the place for you.
My point is DOES IT REALLY MATTER!!!
So long as the message is understood. I hear far worse R/T than this.
The FISO at Elstree will not hear of an Aztec being called a PA23 you will be on the receiving end of his infamous dressing down.
If your blood boils by a pilot calling an Aztec a PA27 then maybe a cockpit is not the place for you.