Look out for Gliders
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Look out for Gliders
A polite reminder to everyone to lookout for gliders. Today I had the misfortune to take evasive action - again. Flying in a gaggle with 4 other gliders close to Reading a 152/172 charged right through the middle.
Some points for power pilots to remember.
1. If a glider is circling, then the chances are there is more than one in the area.
2. Gliders use cloud streets and can travel a speeds up to 140kts.
3. Power gives way to sail.
I fly powered too so I can see power pilots point of view.
p.s. I am considering filing an airmiss report it was that close.
Some points for power pilots to remember.
1. If a glider is circling, then the chances are there is more than one in the area.
2. Gliders use cloud streets and can travel a speeds up to 140kts.
3. Power gives way to sail.
I fly powered too so I can see power pilots point of view.
p.s. I am considering filing an airmiss report it was that close.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 1
From: Cambridge, England, EU
Perennial topic this.
Few weeks ago there were a lot of gliders up and I (in a 152) saw one very late. (I don't know when s/he saw me; s/he had better visibility and was better able to predict that I'd be continuing straight and level than I was to predict their course, so I'm hoping there wasn't really a danger of collision.)
Might have helped if they'd had any radio - the glider field I was passing only advertised a mobile phone number with the helpful comment that "we probably won't bother to answer this number if we're too busy flying" (so I didn't bother calling it before taking off).
For example, if someone had been there to tell me "we've got five gliders up in the local area" I'd have known that when I'd spotted four of them there was still one to go.
Few weeks ago there were a lot of gliders up and I (in a 152) saw one very late. (I don't know when s/he saw me; s/he had better visibility and was better able to predict that I'd be continuing straight and level than I was to predict their course, so I'm hoping there wasn't really a danger of collision.)
Might have helped if they'd had any radio - the glider field I was passing only advertised a mobile phone number with the helpful comment that "we probably won't bother to answer this number if we're too busy flying" (so I didn't bother calling it before taking off).
For example, if someone had been there to tell me "we've got five gliders up in the local area" I'd have known that when I'd spotted four of them there was still one to go.
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Good points Gertrude.
Yes, I had been observing the a/c so was prepared for evasive action.
When flying in a gaggle with other gliders lookout is essential. If the other gliders are on the same level it is not easy just to turn to exit the thermal (we tend to fly in very close proximity). This has caused mid-air collisions in the past and will continue to do so in the future. Thus an aircraft that is on a conflicting course will present an increasing hazard as the number of gliders in a thermal increases.
I would not advise calling a club (telephone) to find the number of gliders that are operating. It may be of use to know that a club is flying, however that does not account for any visiting gliders which are allways about on good days.
When I am flying powered I try to keep well away from gliding sites. If passing very close I will call on the gliding frequency and announce myself just to keep everybody happy.
My main concern is for all pilots to maintain a good lookout and not rely on others to get out of their way.
Yes, I had been observing the a/c so was prepared for evasive action.
When flying in a gaggle with other gliders lookout is essential. If the other gliders are on the same level it is not easy just to turn to exit the thermal (we tend to fly in very close proximity). This has caused mid-air collisions in the past and will continue to do so in the future. Thus an aircraft that is on a conflicting course will present an increasing hazard as the number of gliders in a thermal increases.
I would not advise calling a club (telephone) to find the number of gliders that are operating. It may be of use to know that a club is flying, however that does not account for any visiting gliders which are allways about on good days.
When I am flying powered I try to keep well away from gliding sites. If passing very close I will call on the gliding frequency and announce myself just to keep everybody happy.
My main concern is for all pilots to maintain a good lookout and not rely on others to get out of their way.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 1
From: Cambridge, England, EU
When I am flying powered I try to keep well away from gliding sites. If passing very close I will call on the gliding frequency and announce myself just to keep everybody happy.
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Gliders in the UK use a collection of frequencies on a national basis for different purposes.
They do not need to hold an R/T licence (although I think this should be a mandatory). Therefore dispensation has been given to use the following frequencies without holding a licence. Due to this, r/t procedures are appalling and I cringe every time I here somebody on the radio.
129.9 MHz Ground to Ground only. Used to run airfield.
129.975 MHz Control Purposes at approved sites only (within 10NM and up to 3000 feet). This is a useful frequency when approaching a large airfield eg Lasham, Bicester.
130.1 MHz Gliding Competitions (primary). This is also used ground to air.
130.125 MHz Gliding Competitions (secondary), and Lead and Follow training.
130.4 MHz Cloud Flying. Gliders will enter cumulas in free airspace and will only call on this frequency. If flying IFR then think twice before flying through clouds!
To contact clubs best to use 129.975 and 130.1
Hope this helps.
They do not need to hold an R/T licence (although I think this should be a mandatory). Therefore dispensation has been given to use the following frequencies without holding a licence. Due to this, r/t procedures are appalling and I cringe every time I here somebody on the radio.
129.9 MHz Ground to Ground only. Used to run airfield.
129.975 MHz Control Purposes at approved sites only (within 10NM and up to 3000 feet). This is a useful frequency when approaching a large airfield eg Lasham, Bicester.
130.1 MHz Gliding Competitions (primary). This is also used ground to air.
130.125 MHz Gliding Competitions (secondary), and Lead and Follow training.
130.4 MHz Cloud Flying. Gliders will enter cumulas in free airspace and will only call on this frequency. If flying IFR then think twice before flying through clouds!
To contact clubs best to use 129.975 and 130.1
Hope this helps.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
FP,
Good points, and you are correct to say:
There is however not much to be gained by being right and dead!
When aviating I take it that the other has not seen me, so that I will take any/all action needed to avoid collision.
May have been 'wrong' on a few counts, but still alive!
FD
Good points, and you are correct to say:
3. Power gives way to sail.
When aviating I take it that the other has not seen me, so that I will take any/all action needed to avoid collision.
May have been 'wrong' on a few counts, but still alive!
FD
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
From: UK
Most glider radio use these days is glider-to-glider, on 130.1, 130.125 or 130.4. Calls to the ground when they happen are mostly for final glide [= impending arrival]. As over 1000 gliders may be active at a time, more in the South East/midlands than anywhere else, all having to share these three frequencies, they are busy. Some calls have sufficient urgency - e.g. when entering cloud, using 130.4 - that I and many other pilots will call out even if it creates simultaneous transmission with others - the theory being that via the inverse square law, any glider close enough to be at risk of being in the same cloud will get the transmission in preference to calls from further away.
That is one set of reasons why calls from power planes enquiring about the presence of gliders would not be welcomed.
Another reason is that even if you call, and get an answer which sounds useful to you, it is dangerously misleading. There could be gliders where you don't hear about them being around, as well as where you do hear about. Looking too much in one direction means less in other directions.
Because of the large amount of chat, many glider pilots switch off except when they need to communicate.
Some people - I am one - listen more on ATC frequencies for part of the time. I do so when flying near my home site, Ridgewell, just outside the Stansted airspace, because lots of power planes skirt the zone and hence come right over us (some idiots fly over the airfield at less than winch launch height, in blatant disregard of the Rules of the Air - one day there will be a fatality here, like the one at another site a few years ago). Occasionally, though less with the latest Stansted airspace, we have had airliners in class G. So I often listen out on 120.62 for potential conflict with heavy metal. I rarely call Essex Radar, because past experience is that they cheerfully talk to power planes but just tell gliders to stay clear and don't want to hear any more, even if (as in my last attempt) it is to tell them they are working a power plane in class G straight at me, the power pilot having informed them that he could see no gliders.
So, trying to rely on radio for reducing chances of conflict with gliders is perhaps counterproductive. The mark one eyeball is imperfect, but it may be the best we all have to rely upon, until the invention and widespread use of some sort of effective proximity warning system for gliders/GA.
Chris N.
That is one set of reasons why calls from power planes enquiring about the presence of gliders would not be welcomed.
Another reason is that even if you call, and get an answer which sounds useful to you, it is dangerously misleading. There could be gliders where you don't hear about them being around, as well as where you do hear about. Looking too much in one direction means less in other directions.
Because of the large amount of chat, many glider pilots switch off except when they need to communicate.
Some people - I am one - listen more on ATC frequencies for part of the time. I do so when flying near my home site, Ridgewell, just outside the Stansted airspace, because lots of power planes skirt the zone and hence come right over us (some idiots fly over the airfield at less than winch launch height, in blatant disregard of the Rules of the Air - one day there will be a fatality here, like the one at another site a few years ago). Occasionally, though less with the latest Stansted airspace, we have had airliners in class G. So I often listen out on 120.62 for potential conflict with heavy metal. I rarely call Essex Radar, because past experience is that they cheerfully talk to power planes but just tell gliders to stay clear and don't want to hear any more, even if (as in my last attempt) it is to tell them they are working a power plane in class G straight at me, the power pilot having informed them that he could see no gliders.
So, trying to rely on radio for reducing chances of conflict with gliders is perhaps counterproductive. The mark one eyeball is imperfect, but it may be the best we all have to rely upon, until the invention and widespread use of some sort of effective proximity warning system for gliders/GA.
Chris N.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,681
Likes: 10
From: Just South of the last ice sheet
Future Pundit thanks for the freq's, I trundle past Bicester quite often and am always aware that there are slim fast things there. Oh yes, there's gliders there as well 
It'll be nice to tune into 129.975 to listen to the unpowered bods.
chrisN while appreciating your point regarding:
a) cluttering up an already busy frequency
b) a lot of glider pilots turn the radio off
I still think it's worth listening out as well as having the Mark One Eyeballs searching the sky.
PS If you see a cream coloured Auster waggling it's wings frantically (well as frantically as you can with Auster ailerons) it means I've seen you not that the wings are going to drop off!
It'll be nice to tune into 129.975 to listen to the unpowered bods.chrisN while appreciating your point regarding:
a) cluttering up an already busy frequency
b) a lot of glider pilots turn the radio off
I still think it's worth listening out as well as having the Mark One Eyeballs searching the sky.
PS If you see a cream coloured Auster waggling it's wings frantically (well as frantically as you can with Auster ailerons) it means I've seen you not that the wings are going to drop off!
