Red Arrows display cancelled due to airspace infringement (merged)
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Red Arrows display cancelled due to airspace infringement
BBC Online reporting. I guess some people didn't read the NOTAM's today. 
Air show threat to prosecute pilots
The Red Arrows were set to top the bill
Four pilots could be prosecuted after the Red Arrows were forced to abort an air show display at the last minute over safety fears.
The world-famous RAF display team were on their final approach to the annual Yorkshire Air Show at Elvington, near York, when a series of airspace infringements made it too dangerous to fly.
A microlight aircraft, a glider and a large flock of birds all strayed into the restricted airspace in addition to one other, as yet, unspecified infringement.
The display team were forced to stand-off four miles from the airfield before cancelling their appearance altogether on safety grounds.
Rare occurrence
Furious air show organiser Ken Cothliff said the Civil Aviation Authority had been informed and the pilots of the rogue aircraft could expect to be prosecuted.
He added: "The Red Arrows can probably count on the fingers of one hand how often this has happened in the past."
The Red Arrows were the top attraction at the two-day event which is expected to attract more than 30,000 people.
Aircraft taking part in the displays will include the Utterly Butterly Wingwalkers, DeHavilland Sea Vixen, B-25 Mitchell Bomber, North American T-6 Harvard, Blue Eagles and the SAR Sea King.
There are also trade stands, craft stalls, classic cars, military vehicles, a funfair, helicopter rides and a static aircraft park.
The Red Arrows are still due to perform at the show on Monday.
The Red Arrows were set to top the bill
Four pilots could be prosecuted after the Red Arrows were forced to abort an air show display at the last minute over safety fears.
The world-famous RAF display team were on their final approach to the annual Yorkshire Air Show at Elvington, near York, when a series of airspace infringements made it too dangerous to fly.
A microlight aircraft, a glider and a large flock of birds all strayed into the restricted airspace in addition to one other, as yet, unspecified infringement.
The display team were forced to stand-off four miles from the airfield before cancelling their appearance altogether on safety grounds.
Rare occurrence
Furious air show organiser Ken Cothliff said the Civil Aviation Authority had been informed and the pilots of the rogue aircraft could expect to be prosecuted.
He added: "The Red Arrows can probably count on the fingers of one hand how often this has happened in the past."
The Red Arrows were the top attraction at the two-day event which is expected to attract more than 30,000 people.
Aircraft taking part in the displays will include the Utterly Butterly Wingwalkers, DeHavilland Sea Vixen, B-25 Mitchell Bomber, North American T-6 Harvard, Blue Eagles and the SAR Sea King.
There are also trade stands, craft stalls, classic cars, military vehicles, a funfair, helicopter rides and a static aircraft park.
The Red Arrows are still due to perform at the show on Monday.
Last edited by BRL; 24th Aug 2003 at 23:34.
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A microlight aircraft, a glider and a large flock of birds all strayed into the restricted airspace in addition to one other, as yet, unspecified infringement.
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Hmmm.. After cancelling my trip to Compton Abbas yesterday, I was just about to depart north to Bagby - routing overhead Elvington 
- when an instructor overheard me discussing the route and warned me about the airshow. I had checked the NOTAMS's for the trip south, but not for my new route! There but for the grace of god etc etc.....
- when an instructor overheard me discussing the route and warned me about the airshow. I had checked the NOTAMS's for the trip south, but not for my new route! There but for the grace of god etc etc.....
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Elvington Infringement
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3177813.stm
Somebody's in trouble, and presumably it's not the large flock of birds.
Does anybody have any intelligence or gossip? The normal sources of reliable rumour seem remarkably quiet.
P
Somebody's in trouble, and presumably it's not the large flock of birds.
Does anybody have any intelligence or gossip? The normal sources of reliable rumour seem remarkably quiet.
P
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Similar happened last year on the coast and cost the microlight pilot £600.
Suspect that this will go a similar way (vis-a-vis a prosecution) but that the monetary stakes will be higher.
FD
Suspect that this will go a similar way (vis-a-vis a prosecution) but that the monetary stakes will be higher.
FD
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Surely most people traversing the area would have contact with, say, Fenton APP or some other LARS unit in the area... even if they hadn't seen the NOTAM?
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Forget it, Andy. Light aircraft yes but microlights and particularly gliders not generally. It wasn't uncommon to see gliders well within the Fenton MATZ (not illegal I know) and occasionally within the ATZ, without so much as a peep. Lots of gliding around there from Rufforth, Pocklington and Burn. Never spoke to Fenton.
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Well, I was there.
We spent 3 hrs in traffic (2.5 of which was within a mile of the airfield) and 12 quid to get in, specifically to see the Red Arrows. I haven't seen them for years and my g/f has never seen them so I'd like to offer my thanks to the ***hole microlight and glider pilots who ruined my day, along with 30,000 other people.
Judging by the comments I overheard, those 30,000 people are not likely to be sympathetic to GA in the future, so well done my friend, you couldn't have picked a better day - you've made 30,000 enemies of GA today. Thanks.
As far as I know, there were 4 infringements, 2 of which were contacted by radio but the othe two could not be contacted. I assume this was the glider and the microlight.
Thanks to all the other pilots there today - they ensured it wasn't wasted trip, the flying was incredible, especially the aerobatic glider and the two Extra displays. Amazing!!
Sorry for the rant everyone, I am EXTREMELY angry about this but it's the other 29,999 that you need to be worried about, not me
Wily
We spent 3 hrs in traffic (2.5 of which was within a mile of the airfield) and 12 quid to get in, specifically to see the Red Arrows. I haven't seen them for years and my g/f has never seen them so I'd like to offer my thanks to the ***hole microlight and glider pilots who ruined my day, along with 30,000 other people.
Judging by the comments I overheard, those 30,000 people are not likely to be sympathetic to GA in the future, so well done my friend, you couldn't have picked a better day - you've made 30,000 enemies of GA today. Thanks.
As far as I know, there were 4 infringements, 2 of which were contacted by radio but the othe two could not be contacted. I assume this was the glider and the microlight.
Thanks to all the other pilots there today - they ensured it wasn't wasted trip, the flying was incredible, especially the aerobatic glider and the two Extra displays. Amazing!!
Sorry for the rant everyone, I am EXTREMELY angry about this but it's the other 29,999 that you need to be worried about, not me
Wily
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En-route to Compton Abbas yesterday Bournemouth were asking all traffic if they were aware of an airshow/ATZ at Cowes - based on the response that we heard while we were on frequency nobody reads NOTAMs.... 
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Evo,
I can assure you that I read the Notams, and was aware of the West Cowes temp ATZ for the heliport and airshow. Actually changed my flight plan as a result.
Also that Compton's NDB was U/S - not that I could have picked it up anyway, 'cos the ADF in the A/c I was flying can't pick up the decimal 5!
So apart from you, me and Mike Cross...
Cheers
SD
I can assure you that I read the Notams, and was aware of the West Cowes temp ATZ for the heliport and airshow. Actually changed my flight plan as a result.
Also that Compton's NDB was U/S - not that I could have picked it up anyway, 'cos the ADF in the A/c I was flying can't pick up the decimal 5!
So apart from you, me and Mike Cross...
Cheers
SD
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The NOTAM system doesn't always make it easy.
I posted the NOTAM here about the mass microlight Channel crossing on Saturday, but, as far as I can see, you'd only have been aware of it normally if you'd happened to specify Lashenden/Headcorn in your route briefing, in spite of the fact that the event affected a corridor form there to Abbeville via Ashford, Cap Gris Nez and L2K.
I posted the NOTAM here about the mass microlight Channel crossing on Saturday, but, as far as I can see, you'd only have been aware of it normally if you'd happened to specify Lashenden/Headcorn in your route briefing, in spite of the fact that the event affected a corridor form there to Abbeville via Ashford, Cap Gris Nez and L2K.
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There is no doubt that the Notam service is now considerably better than at its inception.
The main feature which is sadly lacking is a visual presentation of the information.
That is a big shame.
FD
The main feature which is sadly lacking is a visual presentation of the information.
That is a big shame.
FD
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Just to even the balance a little, and lift the mood. I was keeping a listening watch on Wellesbourne on Saturday. The Arrows were displaying at a local event, and Wellesbourne was just encompassed in the Restriction (6nm/8k IIRC). I was thoroughly impressed that all based and visiting aircraft seemed to be up to speed on the NOTAM and everyone was down a good 15 minutes before the slot time. At Wellesbourne, that usually means quite a few a/c!
The only 2 transitting a/c I heard who were not aware sounded like dual training flights, although I might be mistaken, I wasn't really paying much attention. If that was indeed the case, it would certainly raise a few questions in my mind if I was the student (or the CFI!).
The only 2 transitting a/c I heard who were not aware sounded like dual training flights, although I might be mistaken, I wasn't really paying much attention. If that was indeed the case, it would certainly raise a few questions in my mind if I was the student (or the CFI!).
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While these infringements are almost certainly the fault of the pilots concerned we should also look at the possible underlying contributory factors.
An example of what I mean:- A pilot may raise his flaps on the landing roll and inadvertantly raise the wheels instead. Although it's his fault, a contributory factor might be that the switches are similar and next to each other and a change to the layout would improve safety.
I must confess to a certain sympathy for the glider pilot and a feeling that a contributory factor to his infrimgement might be the format of the data available to him, and that a change might improve safety.
Gliders can cover very wide areas, never in a straight line. The tools available on the AIS site are geared toward a pilot flying in a straight line from A to B. It is also possible to use them to provide a brief for a local area, but a glider pilot needs information on a much wider area so he is stuck with the FIR brief.
It is not easy to build a geographic picture in your mind from this brief, and maybe 3 hours from take-off, while concentrating on finding and staying in lift while at the same time keeping a very good lookout (gliders tend to gaggle together when lift is found) it must be very difficult to simultaneously re-read copious pages of brief to find out what the hazards are in the particular area that you have ended up in.
What is deparately needed in this situation is some sort of graphical reference. An outline map with the hazards marked on it that can be referenced to the chart and which gives references to the individual items in the brief (e.g. a mark on the map with the NOTAM number next to it). This would allow the pilot to rapidly locate the items relevant to his location.
I suspect depictions of Nav Warnings will be all that is needed, remaining items that might affect the flight can be picked up from scanning the brief before take-off.
Producing the geographic plot is not particularly difficult, given good data to work from. Several people have produced software to do the job, the best known being Ian Fallon with NotamPlot and Ian Bennett with NotamPro. Unfortunately they and everyone else are hamstrung by the CAA witholding essential information.
What most pilots call NOTAM are in fact Pre-Flight Information Bulltetins (PIB's). These are produced from NOTAM but data included in the original NOTAM and which is essential to the process of selection sorting and display is omitted from the output.
This is a deliberate policy by the CAA. NATS have no objection to the release of the data, it is the CAA who are deliberately blocking its release, despite requests from myself and others.
This is a real "Catch 22". "We welcome safety improvements but we won't give you the information that you need to produce them, therefore we cannot condone the use of your product."
If you would like to make representations on this subject the person responsible for the CAA policy in this area is
Phil Roberts
Assistant Director, Airspace Policy 1
Room K 603, CAA House
45-59 Kingsway
London WC2B 6TE
Further contact details can be found in Chaper 4 of CAP 723
Mike
An example of what I mean:- A pilot may raise his flaps on the landing roll and inadvertantly raise the wheels instead. Although it's his fault, a contributory factor might be that the switches are similar and next to each other and a change to the layout would improve safety.
I must confess to a certain sympathy for the glider pilot and a feeling that a contributory factor to his infrimgement might be the format of the data available to him, and that a change might improve safety.
Gliders can cover very wide areas, never in a straight line. The tools available on the AIS site are geared toward a pilot flying in a straight line from A to B. It is also possible to use them to provide a brief for a local area, but a glider pilot needs information on a much wider area so he is stuck with the FIR brief.
It is not easy to build a geographic picture in your mind from this brief, and maybe 3 hours from take-off, while concentrating on finding and staying in lift while at the same time keeping a very good lookout (gliders tend to gaggle together when lift is found) it must be very difficult to simultaneously re-read copious pages of brief to find out what the hazards are in the particular area that you have ended up in.
What is deparately needed in this situation is some sort of graphical reference. An outline map with the hazards marked on it that can be referenced to the chart and which gives references to the individual items in the brief (e.g. a mark on the map with the NOTAM number next to it). This would allow the pilot to rapidly locate the items relevant to his location.
I suspect depictions of Nav Warnings will be all that is needed, remaining items that might affect the flight can be picked up from scanning the brief before take-off.
Producing the geographic plot is not particularly difficult, given good data to work from. Several people have produced software to do the job, the best known being Ian Fallon with NotamPlot and Ian Bennett with NotamPro. Unfortunately they and everyone else are hamstrung by the CAA witholding essential information.
What most pilots call NOTAM are in fact Pre-Flight Information Bulltetins (PIB's). These are produced from NOTAM but data included in the original NOTAM and which is essential to the process of selection sorting and display is omitted from the output.
This is a deliberate policy by the CAA. NATS have no objection to the release of the data, it is the CAA who are deliberately blocking its release, despite requests from myself and others.
This is a real "Catch 22". "We welcome safety improvements but we won't give you the information that you need to produce them, therefore we cannot condone the use of your product."
If you would like to make representations on this subject the person responsible for the CAA policy in this area is
Phil Roberts
Assistant Director, Airspace Policy 1
Room K 603, CAA House
45-59 Kingsway
London WC2B 6TE
Further contact details can be found in Chaper 4 of CAP 723
Mike
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SD,
Most ADFs cannot be tuned to point 5. The solution in the case of Compton Abbas which is on 349.5 is to try both 349 and 350 and find out by listeneing to the ident which is the stronger and leave the ADF tuned to that frequency.
Most ADFs cannot be tuned to point 5. The solution in the case of Compton Abbas which is on 349.5 is to try both 349 and 350 and find out by listeneing to the ident which is the stronger and leave the ADF tuned to that frequency.
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I agree that the present NOTAM system is very unuser-friendly. However these idiots are trying to soar with eagles whilst flying like turkeys. Fact - infringment was - 1x glider, 1x microlight & a Cessna. There is no excuse. They were just plain negligent in planning and or navigational awareness. Ground em! I prefer not to be in the air with dip-s##ts.