Gatwick trial cuts plane boarding time by 10%
When I saw this headline, my first thought was: "I'll bet this is an old idea" indeed it is ...
BBC web news The basic is the: Load Window Seats First - Starting At The Back. Then Middles and then Aisles. They have done some tweaking to allow for families and the use of display screens. Forgive my cynicism but I had to laugh. All the careful boarding by rows and sections that we were doing in the 1990s - that got thrown out? Now the 'bright young managers' have thought up this great idea? |
Good God! LOL Not just the 1990's PaxBoy, but some 60 years after package holiday flights first started (with quite big planes) and they are actually having management meetings and pow-wows as to how to board a plane WTF!!!
I cannot believe we are having this nonsense given air time....God I could run this shower standing on my head I posted this on Jet2 who were pontificating about boarding a plane --- 2 sets of steps used for pax boarding/disembarking for a 737 800 or a 757 for instance is much quicker than an air-bridge/jetty as long as the ground staff get both the front and rear steps on PDQ Also today the ramp ground staff also have to faff about for ages (for H&S reasons gone mad) in setting up an elaborate chain link barrier system and cones to stop pax walking under the wing - this also wastes time on a quick turnaround if the ramp guys don't arrive with the kit or it is not left on the stand (more junk on the apron) Back in the day the ground staff girl/boy boarding/meeting the flight, (or the No.4 CC would get off first) and would stand at the end of the wing to guide the pax accordingly - it's not rocket science, been doing it since 1972 lol |
Originally Posted by rog747
(Post 10606281)
Good God! LOL Not just the 1990's PaxBoy, but some 60 years after package holiday flights first started (with quite big planes) and they are actually having management meetings and pow-wows as to how to board a plane WTF!!!
I cannot believe we are having this nonsense given air time....God I could run this shower standing on my head I posted this on Jet2 who were pontificating about boarding a plane --- 2 sets of steps used for pax boarding/disembarking for a 737 800 or a 757 for instance is much quicker than an air-bridge/jetty as long as the ground staff get both the front and rear steps on PDQ Also today the ramp ground staff also have to faff about for ages (for H&S reasons gone mad) in setting up an elaborate chain link barrier system and cones to stop pax walking under the wing - this also wastes time on a quick turnaround if the ramp guys don't arrive with the kit or it is not left on the stand (more junk on the apron) Back in the day the ground staff girl/boy boarding/meeting the flight, (or the No.4 CC would get off first) and would stand at the end of the wing to guide the pax accordingly - it's not rocket science, been doing it since 1972 lol Cebu Air board their ATR72 pax in three stages, front, middle and rear, it is regular that as soon as they announce boarding there is a stampede of most passengers who don't understand seat numbers etc. and to achieve a 20 minute turnround sometimes a blind eye needs to be turned to pax stupidity, I was sitting back with the attitude that there is no rush to board because they're not going anywhere until we all board and I was watching the carnage, this handling agent were taking the boarding process by strict dictation whereas they were turning some pax around who were then blocking the progress of the pax that should have been boarding resulting in a very slow boarding that delayed the turnround. I'm glad I'm retired from this nonsense and I can sit back and observe it with humour. |
The wheel goes round and round, nothing new or original at all. No common sense or logical thinking by anyone nowadays. Heaven help us in years to come.
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Originally Posted by rog747
(Post 10606281)
2 sets of steps used for pax boarding/disembarking for a 737 800 or a 757 for instance is much quicker than an air-bridge/jetty as long as the ground staff get both the front and rear steps on PDQ
I've never understood why ground staff seem unable or unwilling to make a simple announcement to the effect that passengers sitting in rows XXX and higher should board via the rear steps. It's not rocket science. |
I agree with the comments above. I have been at the sharp end of this. The idea was tried some years ago at MAN by one of the locos, and did nothing whatsoever to speed up boarding. Initially there was free seating, then the current system, or something very similar, was tried, with no improvement in boarding times. Then they went to standard seat allocation, which had very little effect either way. I think it would be wiser to remember that there is a lower time limit to pax loading which can never be improved upon, no matter what they may have told you at business school.
Two sets of steps, a prompt release of the pax from the gate or the aircraft and ensuring that there is a working PIG on the stand will do more to ensure quicker turnarounds than faffing about with seat allocations, |
Gatwick trial cuts plane boarding time by 10%
Apparently the trial currently involves Gate 101 at Gatwick's North Terminal.
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10606396)
Though in my experience you will always get passengers fixated on boarding by the forward steps and then fighting their way to the rearmost row. :O
I've never understood why ground staff seem unable or unwilling to make a simple announcement to the effect that passengers sitting in rows XXX and higher should board via the rear steps. It's not rocket science. I have been at the gate when such announcements have been made very clearly and some people do take notice, but there's no accounting for human nature! |
The bigger problem is that pax are carrying much more in carry- on bags than ever before, and a lot of these will not fit into the airline's gauge anyway - should any of the ground staff be arsed to police this. the aisles are subsequently jammed with standing pax trying to stuff these aforesaid bags into the overheads.
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'Back in the day' Peter Bath of Palmair fame personally supervised the boarding of all his ex BOH flights and called out each row starting from the middle of the aircraft, so absolutely nothing new in this except we did it solely to make the passenger experience better and to avoid any possibility of queuing on wet or icy stairs. Really unsure why something so very obvious is getting so much press puff !!
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Originally Posted by esscee
(Post 10606376)
The wheel goes round and round, nothing new or original at all. No common sense or logical thinking by anyone nowadays. Heaven help us in years to come.
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I cannot believe we are talking about how to board a plane - good grief we been doing it on big holiday planes since the early 60's - And management are putting out press releases and getting TV and Radio air time on this?
Peter Bath will be spinning in his grave and PHSL :P |
I'm just waiting for this:
What could possibly go wrong ? :O |
Now if Gatwick was able to work out a system to reduce aircraft queuing time by 10% at the runway holding point then that would be more beneficial. Of course to achieve this I suspect runway declared capacity would need to reduce which I don't think is on the cards.
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Would have been easier for them to just look at a 5 year old Mythbusters episode which concluded the same;
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https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....eefd59b98f.jpg
The BBC article states they are using screens to give the loading sequence but, as folks have said above - will they be able to police the pax? For some, they will need megaphones and bullwhips. Many thanks for all the contributions and the videos from nonsense and 737aviator. I certainly agree with the view of front + back loading. When easyJet started we used to have that method most of the time - both at LTn and down route. I found that we could whip round to the back stairs and be seated with bags stowed before the queue reached us. That was because, mostly, people took the first possible rows available. What I find staggering is that wide body aircraft, often have but a single air bridge. I have often seen a wide-body board one-at-a-time. In September we found that the LHR T3 gate we were at had only one bridge so the 787 loaded this way. :ugh: A good challenge for newly qualified MBAs would be to try and implement a new boarding system (any system) at any Italian airport ... :} |
Once passengers have got to the "Prepare" stage, what more do they have to to when they reach "Get Ready" ? :O |
Its Nonsense - how you just board window seat pax first - Erm what about families with little kids all together - so you just leave little John and Jane at the boarding gate?
Don't worry Darlings, your turn will come - see ya... and folk travelling with companions (Elderly and grannies ETC) Oh yes what about the Greeks, Spanish and Italians? They do not get any form of boarding process except stand up and rush forward... A complete farce - This has even made headlines on SKY and CNN - |
Maybe that's why they put the trial in (gate)Room 101. :O
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When I was on detachment to Australian Airlines, 30 YEARS AGO, they had thought of it then, they trialled it for a day and then gave it up as a bad job.
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As others have mentioned, this system (common sense) has been around the block a few times before. I'm sure that either United or American were doing this in the 90's in the USA to much fanfare. Considering how much time, cost and frustration is involved in boarding and de-boarding in one day, in one airport alone, it does make you wonder where the thinkers and implementers have gone.
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Forget "systems". It all comes down to passengers not preparing themselves in advance, same as security lines. Prior to reaching the aircraft I have taken out anything I need whilst seated. When I reach my seat I place those items on the seat and immediately proceed to place bag (and coat if applicable) in the overhead locker and taking my seat without delay. Same goes with security, I prepare as much as possible in advance whilst I watch people wait until actually at the belt before starting the process.
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Because the airlines have encouraged "hand luggage only" flights (both BA and EZ) but there isn't enough overhead space for everybody to take a roll-on. That means there is a stampeded for the aeroplane (or more and more speedy boarders) to try and get what space is available. I'm now finding that when Mrs G and I book "up front" some even speedier boarder has put their carry on at the front of the bus and gone to a cheaper seat at the back.
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I would love to go back in a time machine and see how Southwest managed their ten minute turnarounds - although they became 20 min turnarounds in due course. I suspect that lighter loads and much less baggage helped. US carriers now prioritise loading according to fare paid / status, etc presumably to give priority to bin space. This results in chaos and prolonged turnaround times. Where WILMA will help is people sitting in aisle seats having to get up to allow those in window seats to sit down.
I arrived at AMS on a KLM 737 last month and passengers were allowed to alight from the rear exit by stair. I have also alighted from the rear of a wide body but by jetty. Could at both reducing turnaround time and helping pax make connections. Incidently could anyone from easyJet, or any relevant airline quote my the difference in turnaround time at an airport such as LGW or GVA where planes are loaded from a single airbridge and airports where two sets of stairs are used. |
2 sets of steps always speeds things up, plus you can get the fuel pumping on too straight away - Ryanair love 2 sets of steps - when it works and everyone is doing their job on the turnaround then its all easy peasy -
A good traffic officer/dispatcher, the ramp guys and gate staff - a good well co-ordinated team can turn a 737 around in 25-30 minutes without stress plus a smile from Skipper and No.1... Been there, done that, got the Uniform, gold buttons and 4 stripes lol - loved my job but was always amazed at the shear chaos that some of my colleagues manged to create... PS turned a DC-9 round at LHR T1 on B2 in 5 minutes with Capt Tony Belcher the BD339/340 MME - 90 pax in and 90 pax out plus 2 on the jump seats to make it out before the LHR jet ban at 22.59 still got the memo from Toad Hall thanking me and us all |
Today I visited a small shop with limited parking space - so I parked around the corner.
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What we need next, is a trial to get pax off in an orderly fashion...
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It's so true that if the travellers are switched on, then it all goes smoothly, but as we all know people often leave their normal thinking processes at the door of the terminal. I guess a good bit of edumacation is needed, perhaps a few minute video just before final confirmation of the booking on a website ?
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Originally Posted by BRUpax
(Post 10607434)
Forget "systems". It all comes down to passengers not preparing themselves in advance, same as security lines. Prior to reaching the aircraft I have taken out anything I need whilst seated. When I reach my seat I place those items on the seat and immediately proceed to place bag (and coat if applicable) in the overhead locker and taking my seat without delay. Same goes with security, I prepare as much as possible in advance whilst I watch people wait until actually at the belt before starting the process.
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Τhere is very very little available place to arrange liquids electronics and stuff before security. Usually the first available space is just before the machine. turned a DC-9 round at LHR T1 on B2 in 5 minutes with Capt Tony Belcher |
Originally Posted by Rwy in Sight
(Post 10607778)
Τhere is very very little available place to arrange liquids electronics and stuff before security. Usually the first available space is just before the machine.
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The thing that gives it away is when the gate agent says “Please remain seated at this time” and everyone gets up and heads for the gate in a cluster. Just think how dim the average punter is and plan your processes accordingly. Oh.and don’t forget that 50% of your customers are going to be dimmer.... |
Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack
(Post 10607735)
It's so true that if the travellers are switched on, then it all goes smoothly, but as we all know people often leave their normal thinking processes at the door of the terminal. I guess a good bit of education is needed, perhaps a few minute video just before final confirmation of the booking on a website ?
BTW I had a colleague at BMA LHR in our Traffic Office - lovely guy (sadly I heard he passed on way too soon) and his nickname we gave him was spring heeled jack - why? cos he walked with a lively spring in his step - We all had nick names at BMA, but I am not revealing mine here LOL Anyways back to the program- I'm afraid most pax are not 'switched on' - They are sheep and have to guided by Collie dogs - In this case the Collies are good ground staff that have their team together to round up the sheep into the correct pens PDQ - Folk dont even pay attention to the safety video let alone a 'how to board a plane' video when they but their tickets...Plus how many languages will we need to play it back for? LOL |
Tony Belcher BMA 5 minute turnarounds at LHR
Originally Posted by BRUpax
(Post 10607818)
Now there's a name from the past. He was still on Viscounts when I flew with him (as pax)! He was the first skipper I met on my first day at BMA LHR in 1977 - He was on DC-9's by then - He also went on the 707-320C for 1982-84 when we had 3 707's as 211 seat holiday jets going down to the MED and Transatlantic on IT charters - he loved that Go over to Where are they now, and you will find a nice Obituary. |
Thank you for that info rog747. Thread drift: It was in 74 and 75 when on several occasions he was the Captain on BMA flights I traveled on. I ended up spending quite a lot of time on the F/D with him. My parents also flew with BMA and one day my mother took it upon herself to ask for a visit to the F/D. Guess who the skipper was? Some months later it was my father, and yes it was Tony again! Pure coincidence, but as he said himself, he got to meet most of the [BRUpax] family :)
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Now if they can just recreate ths en-masse complete with dramatic music. :)
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Lufthansa Group reinvents the wheel with Group Boarding.
Starting 7 Nov (oops, that's the first day of the cabin crew strike...), they'll board passengers on shorthaul flights thus Pre-Boarding: Families with babies and toddlers under 5, unaccompanied children & travellers with reduced mobility Group 1: HON Circle Member, Senator & Star Alliance Gold Cardholder Group 2: Business Class & Economy Flex Travelers Group 3: Economy class travellers with window seat + company Group 4: Economy class travellers with middle seats + company Group 5: Economy class travellers with aisle seat They've tried it before, it didn't work (as ever, the entire gate lounge claimed to be Business Class or - at worst - Group 2..) and unless they have clear signage indicating which group is currently boarding (and cattleprods to maintain a semblance of order), it'll die a death. |
Originally Posted by RevMan2
(Post 10611974)
Lufthansa Group reinvents the wheel with Group Boarding.
Starting 7 Nov (oops, that's the first day of the cabin crew strike...), they'll board passengers on shorthaul flights thus Pre-Boarding: Families with babies and toddlers under 5, unaccompanied children & travellers with reduced mobility Group 1: HON Circle Member, Senator & Star Alliance Gold Cardholder Group 2: Business Class & Economy Flex Travelers Group 3: Economy class travellers with window seat + company Group 4: Economy class travellers with middle seats + company Group 5: Economy class travellers with aisle seat They've tried it before, it didn't work (as ever, the entire gate lounge claimed to be Business Class or - at worst - Group 2..) and unless they have clear signage indicating which group is currently boarding (and cattleprods to maintain a semblance of order), it'll die a death. |
They have mechanical gates at some airports. You could try programming the gates to recognise the various groups (pre-boarding would have to be manual) but it could be complicated - you would have to link passengers travelling together. Maybe worth a try.
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